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Offlinehairs
old hand
Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 1,019
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
ego loss
    #2645169 - 05/06/04 01:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I hear people raving about the pinnacle of spiritual experiences being ego loss. To me having an ego is totally neccessary to know what your capable of. If you went for a swim with no ego, you could very possibly drown or if you tried to climb a mountain without an ego you would probably fall.

I believe i one time had a loss of ego during a panic attack at the end of a mushroom trip. It was very freightening, at one point i imagined myself being a weakling at the mercy of some punk, he may have had a gun, made he think about how weak i really was. If thats not ego loss (which I'm not sure if it is) then I dont know what is.

What I'm trying to say is that for a brief period of time during a spiritual experience an ego lost could be very enlightening, but to live your life without an ego, could cause massive trouble. Thoughts...


--------------------
If I didn't have such a great drive (golf) the American people would thing I wasn't working so hard. George W. Bush


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2645217 - 05/06/04 01:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

IMO, ego is simply a functional necessity of experience. Having no ego would mean that you can't experience, thus one cannot experience "ego loss" in any sense.


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OfflineLux
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Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 189
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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2645250 - 05/06/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If I went for a swim with no ego I would not get mad at the current for washing me away and ask why is this happening to me. If I climbed a mountain with no ego I would climb it to the best of my ability as carefully as I could because I know that I may not live another second if it's my time so every act should be acted out with death in mind, but not in a fearful way. If I were to fall then it would simply be my time.

Some may argue that you first have to have a strong ego to withstand being able to let go of it. I would say that you have to discipline yourself throughout your life in every act to lose the ego. They both mean the same thing although I believe the former can be slightly misleading to some. What you described isn't ego loss at all, in fact if anything it was you being put face to face with your ego and your self importance! It is a life full of ego which causes massive trouble.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2645308 - 05/06/04 02:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

And, since this thread I am going to be giving a link to was barely even on page two and deals exactly with this subject, I think it would be wise to continue the discussion in this thread I am linking too... we don't need the same discussion in two threads.

Ego

There you have it.  :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinepeleg
Gypsy
Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 535
Loc: Christ Light
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: ego loss [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2645565 - 05/06/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

to me the ego represents the fleshly part of human nature the greed lust selfish acts that include i i i.for me to live without ego is something i strive for by putting Christ first in my life, "I" die everyday to live. The flesh and spirit are polar oppisites and fight each other daily, for if we walk in the Spirit we walk not according to the flesh "ego". it's the good fight of faith :grin:peace,Gypsy :heart:


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2645622 - 05/06/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that we need our ego.

I am a gypsy, too, peleg.  :grin:  A hungarian gypsy.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2645666 - 05/06/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Think of ego as judgement... egoloss is simply the loss of judgement.

> If you went for a swim with no ego, you could very possibly drown or if you tried to climb a mountain without an ego you would probably fall.

Perhaps. Turning off the ego is not turning off the brain. It simply means that you don't categorize something. If I swim without an ego, I simply swim. I don't worry about how fast I am swimming, or how far, or how good my form is- I simply swim. Regardless of ego, I can drown while swimming. With the ego, I might try to swim further than I am able, or faster than I should making me too tired to swim back, both of which result in drowning.

> Having no ego would mean that you can't experience

Not true. It means that I do not judge, or categorize, one experience against another, not that I don't experience.

> ego represents the fleshly part of human nature the greed lust selfish acts that include i i i.

Again, this is a result of judgement... I want something that was better than you have... because I believe (or judge) what you have to better than what I have. Want, desire, and ego go hand in hand.

> I agree that we need our ego.

It is a part of our life. Some people are able to get rid of their ego and live in bliss, but most of us are not willing to live that way. We certainly don't need our ego, but we need to learn to live with it since most of us choose to keep it around.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: ego loss [Re: Seuss]
    #2645696 - 05/06/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Having no ego would mean that you can't experience

Not true. It means that I do not judge, or categorize, one experience against another, not that I don't experience.





Maybe your definition of ego is different than mine. To me, the "ego" is one's sense of self. Since experiences don't just float around to be collected but must be experienced by something, that somethihng is what I call the ego.


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OfflineLux
member
Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 189
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Re: ego loss [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2645774 - 05/06/04 03:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Haha, you perfectly described how I define the current state of common man. Yes, the ego is part of the self but it isn't all of the self. The big mistake that man makes is believing that this is all that there is to the self and so man lives day to day functioning strictly from the ego.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: ego loss [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2645950 - 05/06/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phencyclidine said:
Maybe your definition of ego is different than mine.  To me, the "ego" is one's sense of self.  Since experiences don't just float around to be collected but must be experienced by something, that somethihng is what I call the ego.




Do animals and young babies experience? I agree that experience is filtered through some sort of ego.. without the ego, there is just a total amaglam of experience in the moment... I don't know if we could be capable of remembering any of that experience, however, if there wasn't at least one line of ego code running through the mind at the moment....

I mean, I've been on mushrooms and not been able to remember what a human was, what my name was... but I could still recognize objects.. and I could still lead trains of thought... my ego was definitely not ruling so Hitler-like over my mind, but I wasn't free of it.

I like to think that we have a soul, and that it connects to the mind, which connects to the body... well, let's say there is a Trinity.. :grin: The soul would be complete awareness, and the mind is required to focus down that pure energy to be able to have a limited experience so that stuff can be learned.. Its more of a visual understanding for me, I guess, sort of hard to describe... but even if you don't want to call it a "soul", you could just say awareness... *shrugs*

Hehe, in this book, Handbook To Higher Consciousness, it describes Cosmic Consciousness as "When you live fully in the Sixth Center of Consciousness, you are ready to transcend self-awareness and become pure awareness. At this ultimate level, you are one with everything -- you are love, peace, energy, beauty, wisdom, clarity, effectiveness, and
oneness."

I think that would be true egoless... all there is, is awareness, it isn't really being focused into any direction. I don't even know if you would be able to recall the experience, I haven't been there, so I don't know....

But anyways... I think the importance lies on restructuring your ego, to allow for maximum freedom over your own actions and thoughts, and the ability to change what degree your ego is shaping your experience... there are times for being focused on only a few tasks (like driving, work, etc.), and there are times for floating into a sea of blissful awareness...  :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineobfuscatelesol
journeyman
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 96
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2646038 - 05/06/04 04:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The awareness that fireworks_god describes is the way I describe Enlightenment. There may not be an ego that is able to experience, but that is only because an understanding has been reached that there is no such thing as self and that worldy experience, the perception of seperateness, is illusion. I cannot be sure, but I have read that once ego loss has occured and only pure awareness/consciousness remain, the "person" whom has achieved this is in perfect harmony with the universe and in infinite bliss. This state is supposedly everlasting, even after the physical body of that being dies. This makes perfect sense to me. This philosophy prevails in the East, and I know it from the Buddhist understanding. In my own experience, I can say that through intensive periods of meditation with ego loss in goal, I have "experienced" more peace and happiness than ever before. Also, when I do activities in a like state of mind, where I just watch everything happen and not label any of it (I guess you could say I stop thinking), I do them much more gracefully, accurately, quickly, and it feels great the whole time.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: ego loss [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2646077 - 05/06/04 04:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

> Maybe your definition of ego is different than mine. To me, the "ego" is one's sense of self.

How does one define oneself, or one's sense of self?  By comparing onself to others?  I am cuter... I am fater... I am better... I am more lazy... etc... ?

I agree, the ego defines the self, but it does so through categorization which implies a judgement or comparison.  :smile:

> Since experiences don't just float around to be collected but must be experienced by something

An experience is... when you collect it is when you categorize it- this is when the ego comes into play.  The ego isn't required to experience something, but it is required to put value to that experience.

> Do animals and young babies experience?

If I step on the cats tail by mistake, he certainly lets me know that he experienced something.  :grin:

> all there is, is awareness, it isn't really being focused into any direction.

Aware of events, but not comparing the events with anything else.  The event is everything... and nothing...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: ego loss [Re: obfuscatelesol]
    #2646129 - 05/06/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ahhh man, beautiful post! :thumbup:

That cosmic consciousness level... wow. I can somewhat feel it close, in some of those higher moments... it is there. :laugh:

I'm beginning to focus more and more on my pursuit of higher consciousness. I've went through that prolonged period where you make some progress, and the old thinking patterns return... a lot of ups and downs... having to relearn everything new constantly.... I'm ready to move past that! There is so much beautiful, fufilling, truth ahead.. it is time to move into that light. :grin:

Life is so profound! 

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2647042 - 05/06/04 08:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone think about autism being in a sense a condition where the subconscious mind is unable to form this ego. As they say autistics are not blocking information out, they are in fact talking in it all and are unable to process it in any manner.

This also seems to fit in with the idea that without the use of an ego the mind is able to process some actions with much greater ability and capacity. Many autistics turn out to be savants in some particular field. At least that is just my speculation.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
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Re: ego loss [Re: d33p]
    #2647327 - 05/06/04 09:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Great posts everyone!

My two cents...

Although I use the term myself, I think "Ego Loss" isn't entirely the best way to describe cosmic consciousness. Maybe a better term is "Ego Transcendance".

To transcend the ego is to rise above (or behind) it to find our true identity as pure, non-dual consciousness. We can then participate in this universe from a new, all encompassing vantage point; However, a thin film of ego must remain as the agent of action, especially when relating to other people.

Ken Wilber has done an excellent job (IMO) of sorting this thing out. Is anyone else familiar with his work?


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: ego loss [Re: Seuss]
    #2648229 - 05/07/04 12:12 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Maybe your definition of ego is different than mine. To me, the "ego" is one's sense of self.

I agree, the ego defines the self, but it does so through categorization which implies a judgement or comparison.  :smile:




I agree completely.  I think that the nature of the ego is that it must at least make subject-object distinctions and that it will most probabliy make distinctions between different objects.

Quote:

> Since experiences don't just float around to be collected but must be experienced by something

An experience is... when you collect it is when you categorize it- this is when the ego comes into play.  The ego isn't required to experience something, but it is required to put value to that experience.




I disagree, though perhaps you're defining "ego" differently.  I believe that there has to be a functional "unit" which experiences.  That's what I call the ego.  Without that functional unit, sensory data is simply raw input.  You're right that without the ego that input has no "value", in that it has no meaning.  Input on that level is without any subject-object distinction, there is no "perceiving I", there just is.  I think that's what most psychedelic idealists aim for with ego loss.  I am arguing however that sensory input without something to interpret it is either absent (unconsciousness) or meaningless random input (IOW, there's no relevation of an "ultimate truth", it's just sort of there).  So, I can only conceptualize of two possibilities for experiences with complete ego-loss: 1) no experience or 2) an experience without meaning. However, since #2 has no ego to organize it, it's not even understood as "experience."  I have a very difficult time coming to a conclusion about whether or not this type of "experience" is even possible.


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2648506 - 05/07/04 12:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

if there is an ego loss, then how does one recollect the events of egolessness? i don't understand this. how does the egoless recollect or feel or experience or whatever?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: ego loss [Re: TODAY]
    #2649045 - 05/07/04 04:21 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe you could say the ego does not catch perception but merely filters perception. So then, if you experience ego loss you still catch perceptions but you catch them free of any "ego" filtering. As for memory during ego loss I dont really know. Maybe the mind uses a different method/area for storing memories of egoless experience, making it hard for a person to recall them from normal, egoic conciousness??


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineCather
journeyman
Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 91
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: ego loss [Re: hairs]
    #2649121 - 05/07/04 05:49 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

In ego loss there is no "I" so when you have complete ego loss it is impossible to do anything like swimming or mountain climbing anyway . With total ego loss you quite simply do not exist as an individual .


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OfflineLux
member
Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 189
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: ego loss [Re: GazzBut]
    #2649124 - 05/07/04 05:53 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I really don't understand why you guys think that losing the ego gives the inability to recollect experience. The ego is not all that we are, it's only a part of the self! It's the fakest part of the self, yet people believe it's all there is to them.


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