Seuss said:

> Having no ego would mean that you can't experience

Not true. It means that I do not judge, or categorize, one experience against another, not that I don't experience.

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Phencyclidine said:

Maybe your definition of ego is different than mine.  To me, the "ego" is one's sense of self.  Since experiences don't just float around to be collected but must be experienced by something, that somethihng is what I call the ego.

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Do animals and young babies experience? I agree that experience is filtered through some sort of ego.. without the ego, there is just a total amaglam of experience in the moment... I don't know if we could be capable of remembering any of that experience, however, if there wasn't at least one line of ego code running through the mind at the moment....

I mean, I've been on mushrooms and not been able to remember what a human was, what my name was... but I could still recognize objects.. and I could still lead trains of thought... my ego was definitely not ruling so Hitler-like over my mind, but I wasn't free of it.

I like to think that we have a soul, and that it connects to the mind, which connects to the body... well, let's say there is a Trinity.. The soul would be complete awareness, and the mind is required to focus down that pure energy to be able to have a limited experience so that stuff can be learned.. Its more of a visual understanding for me, I guess, sort of hard to describe... but even if you don't want to call it a "soul", you could just say awareness... *shrugs*

Hehe, in this book, Handbook To Higher Consciousness, it describes Cosmic Consciousness as "When you live fully in the Sixth Center of Consciousness, you are ready to transcend self-awareness and become pure awareness. At this ultimate level, you are one with everything -- you are love, peace, energy, beauty, wisdom, clarity, effectiveness, and
oneness."

I think that would be true egoless... all there is, is awareness, it isn't really being focused into any direction. I don't even know if you would be able to recall the experience, I haven't been there, so I don't know....

But anyways... I think the importance lies on restructuring your ego, to allow for maximum freedom over your own actions and thoughts, and the ability to change what degree your ego is shaping your experience... there are times for being focused on only a few tasks (like driving, work, etc.), and there are times for floating into a sea of blissful awareness... 


Peace.

Seuss said:

> Maybe your definition of ego is different than mine. To me, the "ego" is one's sense of self.

I agree, the ego defines the self, but it does so through categorization which implies a judgement or comparison. 

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Quote:

> Since experiences don't just float around to be collected but must be experienced by something

An experience is... when you collect it is when you categorize it- this is when the ego comes into play.  The ego isn't required to experience something, but it is required to put value to that experience.

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GazzBut said:

I dont think of the ego as the fakest part of the mind. I just see it as a collection of programs which dictate how we react to certain situations.

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Quote:

Mushin: nonthought. D. T. Suzuki wrote at length on mushin. It's "nonthought," "unconsciously," "mind without thought," nothought. It is the essence of Zen. Supposing you do something or want something in your ordinary life: if you act consciously, you are not mushin. If the impulse is expressed as conscious thought, it is not Zen. That is why training in a practice that involves the muscles and whole body is so important. It's important for speaking too. Most people speak after the brain has given them the order to do so. But if you become mushin, hishiryo, you can speak unconsciously, without thought. Take a mondo: if you ask a professor a question he has to think before he answers. But the Zen monk answers without thinking, unconsciously. That's why a Zen mondo is important. It's the same with actions. The brain thinks and you act afterward. That is not mushin. Mushin is the body thinking If you understand that, you can understand Zen. Most Zen stories have to do with mushin. Wisdom and intellectual learning are not the same. In everyday life, in conversations, most people think first and then answer; but very intelligent people use wisdom and do not think. They speak band answer through intuition. Book-learning is different from true knowledge. In time, one ceases using the brain to answer questions. Through zazen you can understand how one can speak unconsciously. Your superficial brain rests and your inner brain becomes active and receives energy. In a mondo my answers come from the inner brain; the activity begins there. My inner brain answers you unconsciously, mushin. That's why a zen mondo is different from an oral examination at the university. Speaking out of one's book-learning is not wisdom. From long practice of zazen you will acquire this unconsciously: wisdom, not book-learning. When I give a talk, for example, I must prepare what I am going to say. Learning first ... and a bit of wisdom. But the moment I stand up in the hall I begin to talk unconsciously and I don't always stick to what I have prepared. I look at the faces and see whether I need to change my talk. There is no more plan, my words come out of the unconscious, and that is why they impress people so strongly. That is teisho. Buddhist philosophy and Zen philosophy do not entail knowledge alone. That is true of the martial arts too. How should I act? If I have to think about everything I ought to do I will not be able to act effectively at all. So mushin is necessary; it enables the body to react without thinking. That is why the practice of zazen is so useful in the martial arts. If you think too long your opponent will be quicker than you.

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