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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Psychedelic Pupil]
    #26090240 -

Psychedelic Pupil said:
That's not true Bod. on many levels. You can develop an immunity, as I did, after sever exposure. It's also not a poison, but many, many animals develop resistance to poisons. Not only can people develop resistance to poison but it even has a name. The practice is called Mithridatism and was very common in the past in rulers who feared assassination from poison.



Even the mithradatism article says it depends on how the substance works

It is important to note that mithridatism is not effective against all types of poison (immunity generally is only possible with biologically complex types which the immune system can respond to) and, depending on the toxin, the practice can lead to the lethal accumulation of a poison in the body. Results depend on how each poison is processed by the body, ie, on how the toxic compound is metabolized or passed out of the body. In some cases, it is possible to build up tolerance against specific non-biological poisons. This involves conditioning the liver to produce more of the particular enzymes that metabolize these poisons (for example alcohol).[7] However, this method (metabolic tolerance) isn't very reliable as too much generally causes accumulation of the reduced toxicity compound that the original poison was metabolized into, slowly damaging the liver. With alcohol this generally leads to conditions such as alcoholic fatty liver disease

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26090665 -

Correct. and there are many poisonous substances that you definitely can not resist. Like say, mercury. It will accumulate and kill you. I was just pointing out that the sweeping statement of not being able to build resistance to poison is inaccurate. Especially relating to poison ivy.

I'd also guess a bunch of people died trying to build immunity to various poisons too ,lol


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I'd like to think I'm smart enough to realize how much knowledge I don't have.

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Psychedelic Pupil]
    #26090696 -

eating poison ivy will definitely kill you


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26091017 -

TheFakeSunRa said:
eating poison ivy will definitely kill you




if it "definitely" will kill you, why have so many people lived?


do you disregard facts in all facets of your life and live as if whatever you thoughts in your head are truth?

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26091051 -

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and most of them are fucking shitty :lol:


--------------------
I'd like to think I'm smart enough to realize how much knowledge I don't have.

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Psychedelic Pupil]
    #26091076 -

there's a guy i saw on viceland who apparently was obsessed with becoming a "snake man" so he acquired a collection of rare venomous snakes and would continuously inject himself with snake venom.

there were some pretty outrageous claims but it didnt kill him and he even seemed to cop a buzz from it in a lot of cases. think he also mentioned that he was part of some studies that were spurred as a result of these activities.

so technically it shouldn't exactly be not possible....humans are very adaptive and life uhh.. uhh.. finds a way lol


:dayglo:

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: DontFearThePeepr]
    #26091253 -

DontFearThePeepr said:
there's a guy i saw on viceland who apparently was obsessed with becoming a "snake man" so he acquired a collection of rare venomous snakes and would continuously inject himself with snake venom.

there were some pretty outrageous claims but it didnt kill him and he even seemed to cop a buzz from it in a lot of cases. think he also mentioned that he was part of some studies that were spurred as a result of these activities.

so technically it shouldn't exactly be not possible....humans are very adaptive and life uhh.. uhh.. finds a way lol


:dayglo:



Poison ivy finds a way to kill people idiotic enough to eat it.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Psychedelic Pupil]
    #26092241 -


Psychedelic Pupil said:
Huh, I'm finding this all pretty interesting. Especially the obstinacy due to lack of research. In 1940 there was a clinical test done for treating extreme poison ivy allergies. The link is below. It's a long read. I did read it all and the methods are well described. I'll sum up for you though. He used an extract diluted in corn oil in gel capsules. There are different dosing schedules described and over various periods of time. He also tried muscular injection. Like a vaccine. That didn't work. The oral therapy did. The number of people treated is too small to be definitive in my opinion, but he trusted it enough to treat both his sons.

Here's a quote from the conclusion "Some forty selected ivy-sensitive persons have, to date, been treated by either shock or prolonged fractional oral therapy. Reduction in skin sensitivity, as shown by quantitative patch test,s, has occurred in all volunteers thus treated."

https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0021-8707(41)80009-4/pdf

Personally, I wouldn't follow his methods as many doses caused poison ivy on the ass and some other really crazy stuff at higher doses. The low dose method didn't have many side effects

Now that I've gotten interested in this subject more because, as I said, my girlfriend has severe reactions, I've found other studies that back up oral treatment. Here's another one:

https://www.jacionline.org/article/0021-8707(59)90082-6/pdf

And some quotes...

"The bencficial therapeutic effects of oral ivy dates back to the report of Dakin2 in 1829. Warren3 produced immunity by administering the extract orally in 1909. Schamberg4 was the first to popularize the ingestion of the ivy resin which he dissolved in alcohol. Shelmire” employed t,hc ivy resin in diluted corn oil and gave it by mouth in daily doses. There have been many reports6+’ since then on the efficacy of oral ivy therapy."

"The results tend to show that Aqua Ivy Tablets offer immunity against.
poison ivy dermatitis.. This conclusion appears warranted on the basis of
the double-blind, controlled study which gave statistically significant results, as well as the clinical study in which 88 per cent of men with a past history of poison ivy dermatitis, under conditions of heavy exposure, had no dermatitis at all."





Awesome find man. Science should be a means of discovery not limitation. Interesting to me that since starting this discussion I keep finding more and more people who have themselves or know others who have had success with taking poison ivy internally to build immunity or resistance to it, and yet some have such an obstinate attitude towards it. Beginners mind is a precious thing


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/05/19 08:51 PM)

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: nerd23]
    #26092276 -

nerd23 said:
I have wondered if you could gather alot of it, then dry it and grind into a powder. This would give you a consistent stock to dose from (much like we all know how to do:mushroom2:).




I'm on day 6 of ingesting poison ivy in capsules. I upped my dose today to 1/2 of a dried new leaf from 1/4. I've been using the new emerging leaves because they have less urushiol on them compared to mature older leaves, and this is exactly what my friend did who had success taking it internally. I think from here forward I'll grind the rest down and weigh it out into capsules for more measured and consistent dosing. It makes more sense :dancer:


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26095716 -

Everyone please remember this is a harm reduction website and this specific forum section does not allow flaming people.  Please keep the pseudoscience to a minimum and be careful.  Without much in the way of a REAL scientific study we don't want to encourage others to do something that may harm them.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: mndfreeze]
    #26096034 -

im just hoping the guy doesn't inadvertantly end up titrating his way to the ld50 amount


:confused:

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: mndfreeze]
    #26096439 -

mndfreeze said:
Everyone please remember this is a harm reduction website and this specific forum section does not allow flaming people.  Please keep the pseudoscience to a minimum and be careful.  Without much in the way of a REAL scientific study we don't want to encourage others to do something that may harm them.



I started this thread by saying I don't recommend others do this but I am simply creating a discussion and documenting my experience. Also psychedlic pupil linked two scientific studies that were done here https://www.jacionline.org/article/0021-8707(59)90082-6/pdf and here https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0021-8707(41)80009-4/pdf.


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26096441 -

I am still taking it daily with no adverse reactions so far. I also just went camping in an area loaded with poison ivy, over the past 2 years camping at that spot I've always come back with at least a little bit of poison ivy except this time. I may have just successfully avoided it unlike the last 8 or 10 times, but maybe...


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/08/19 04:24 PM)

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26096590 -

Both of those studies are super super old.  If modern medicine thought it could find a way to help people become immune to or mitigate the risk of getting hit with it, they would have tried to develop it already.  It would be worth a shitload of money to any number of companies out there not to mention people who are highly allergic. 

Your methodology for testing is also very very flawed.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: mndfreeze]
    #26096743 -

Madfreeze, I'm in complete agreement about not encouraging people. I don't think I've done that. AT least I hope not. Sherlock had already said he was doing it and starting the discussion about it so I was genuinely curious and did some research on the topic. I did point out that one of the studies had too small a test pool to be accurate in my opinion but the second linked study, although super old, as you say was done solidly with double blinds and a good size test pool. I also checked out many of the other studies cited. I don't think I said at any point. "Here's proof, do it" I was satisfying my own curiosity and sharing what I found.

As to why it hasn't been studied further. I'd guess a few reasons but mostly new ethics rules in scientific study. There are many, many test that are commonly used in psychology that were derived from studies done before modern ethics rules that are still used and valid. The reason they haven't been updated is because you can't still, like, lock people in a prison together and see if they kill eachother. Or in the one poison ivy case, "Whip" your nurse with poison ivy vines.

But on a similar subject, why were test into the benefits of mushrooms and lsd on psychological disorders stopped.... Why are we just now seeing new studies on the benefits of mushrooms and depression?

I honestly hope no one thinks I'm trying to encourage anyone to do anything by my posts here. I think I had made it clear that I was genuinely curios for my own reasons and sharing the info I had found. I admit I was not happy with the name calling and that it pushed me to do more research... but I'll take knowledge by whatever path so...


--------------------
I'd like to think I'm smart enough to realize how much knowledge I don't have.

Edited by Psychedelic Pupil (07/08/19 07:07 PM)

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Psychedelic Pupil]
    #26097182 -

You haven't encouraged anybody to do anything. You, as I, are just pursuing curiosity. Good point about the protocols for testing, they have gotten more strict and don't allow for human studies the way they used to. And especially in the case of poison ivy since it has no known toxic effects on any animal, and therefore without being able to test it on humans in the ways shown in the studies you linked, there is not much room for any current scientific studies at least in the context we're discussing. I'll remind folks again I stated in my first post I DO NOT recommend others try this. As for the scientific legitimacy of my personal experiment of course it doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny, nor does much of anything thats openly discussed on this website. I'm not about to setup a proper controlled, varied, in depth study of this. If the idea triggers people than just go read one of a hundred thousand other threads available here


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/08/19 11:15 PM)

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26316300 -

My unscientific and dangerous experiment that I don't recommend others try worked. I seem to be immune to poison ivy now or at least very tolerant of it. In the past the least amount of exposure would lead to an itchy rash for 2 weeks. I touched it 4 or 5 times this summer and didn't get a rash at all. I'll be microdosing poison ivy using this method every spring from here forward. Cheers!


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26316620 -

Carefully, it seems to have accumulative affect.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
Jimi Hendrix


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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: sui]
    #26316940 -

sui said:
Carefully, it seems to have accumulative affect.



Is that opinion based on corroborative studies?

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Re: Microdosing poison ivy [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26316966 -

Just what I've read.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
Jimi Hendrix


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