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OfflineMXNR
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Carbon Monoxide Poisoning?
    #4586292 - 08/27/05 03:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hey All,

How is it going? I have a question for any Shroomite out there who may know. I was recently at a gathering where I let my cousin use my home-made light bulb vaporizer. Long story short, he heated it up too much and inhaled a bunch of smoke, not vapor. As I understand this, he inhaled Carbon Monoxide.

Since that night he has been complaining of slightly hazy vision, slight, irregular headaches, and a general "foggy brain."

I have done some quick research on Google and I'm afraid he may have brain damage from inhaling a condensed dose of Carbon Monoxide. Do any of you have any experience with this type of thing or a light bulb vaporizer or just any advice? Appreciated. Thanks.


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Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: MXNR]
    #4586311 - 08/27/05 03:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What's the difference between inhaling carbon monoxide from smoking pot and inhaling it through a lightbulb vaporizer?

I heat up the pot in a lightbulb until it's literally red and cherried as if it was in a bowl, because it's best this way in my experience. I don't think your cousin can possibly heat it up "too long", he's probably just high.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: Ravus]
    #4586328 - 08/27/05 03:24 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The book in which i first learned to construct this device advised against NEVER allowing smoke to develop in the bulb. I can remember exactly, but the book was some kind of cannabis grow bible and i think the author was greg green. His quote was, "If you want to stay healthy, do not inhale the smoke." or something to the same effect.

The symptoms have stayed with him for a few days since he used it. The high is way over. He also reports vision impairment.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: MXNR]
    #4586342 - 08/27/05 03:29 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Double posting aside...

How long did he light it for? Because, in my experience doing the same thing, I've held the lighter under a homemade lightbulb pipe until the pot was red and letting out quite a shitload of smoke and it was just pot smoke to me; it gave me absolutely no effects that a pipe wouldn't, and I think it was way smoother and nicer. No lighter fluid to get in the way of that herbal taste.

I can't say why he feels that way, but I can say that in my experience doing the same, I've never gotten damage.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: Ravus]
    #4586363 - 08/27/05 03:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry about doub-post Ravus,

Just that he called me tonight and got me worried. Anyway, I am hearing what you are saying from multiple sources. Maybe I'm wrong, but the book which taught me how to make it, warns against inhaling the smoke lest you want to be unhealthy. the book is "The Cannabis Breeder's Bible: The Definitive Guide to Marijuana Genetics, Cannabis Botany and Creating Strains for the Seed Market (Paperback)
by Greg Green


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: MXNR]
    #4586782 - 08/27/05 09:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Carbon monoxide isn't "toxic"....it just displaces oxygen in your blood. I'm fairly certain that brain damage due to CO inhalation is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain.

If your friend had inhaled enough carbon monoxide to cause significant lack of oxygen, it would have been immediately apparent. He would almost certainly have lost consciousness and passed out.

I doubt you could get that much CO in your blood from one breath of it.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: trendal]
    #4586928 - 08/27/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It would be absolutely impossible and even ridiculous to suggest so.

If he went to a gathering, don't you think it MIGHT have been because of all the other drugs he (probably) ingested?


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: trendal]
    #4587006 - 08/27/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Carbon monoxide isn't "toxic"....it just displaces oxygen in your blood. I'm fairly certain that brain damage due to CO inhalation is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain.




I'm not so sure about that.

Toxicity

Carbon monoxide quickly binds with hemoglobin with an affinity 200 to 250 times greater than that of oxygen to form COHb (4). The resulting decrease in arterial oxygen content and shift of the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve to the left (7) explain the acute hypoxic symptoms (primarily neurologic and cardiac) seen in patients with carbon monoxide poisoning. But the toxic effects of carbon monoxide cannot be explained by this process alone. COHb levels do not correlate well with symptoms or outcome, and this process cannot account for the phenomenon of delayed neurologic sequelae (2,8).

Research suggests that the intracellular uptake of carbon monoxide is a mechanism for neurologic damage. When carbon monoxide binds to cytochrome oxidase, it causes mitochondrial dysfunction that results in oxidative stress (9). The release of nitric oxide from platelets and endothelial cells, which forms the free radical peroxynitrite, can further inactivate mitochondrial enzymes and damage the vascular endothelium of the brain (10). The end result is lipid peroxidation of the brain, which starts during recovery from carbon monoxide poisoning (11). With reperfusion of the brain, leukocyte adhesion and the subsequent release of destructive enzymes and excitatory amino acids all amplify the initial oxidative injury (12). The net result is cognitive defects, particularly in memory and learning, and movement disorders that may not appear for days following the initial poisoning (5).
- http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1999/01_99/tomaszewski.htm


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: Annom]
    #4587515 - 08/27/05 03:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

all amplify the initial oxidative injury

It doesn't say anything about the toxic effects of CO without the initial hypoxia...so it may only be an extension to the damage already caused by lack of oxygen. Carbon Monoxide isn't a good thing to be inhaling, at any rate.

I'm still quite certain that, for an actual "toxic" dose to be inhaled it would have to be more than a single lungful. It is impossible for this guy to have inhaled even one lungful of CO because he wasn't sucking it pure out of a tank. (note that an actual lungful of pure CO is probably life-threatening)

In fact, I highly doubt you could produce as much CO in smoke from pot in a light bulb as opposed to pot smoked in a pipe. Most likely the dose of CO this guy got was, at the most, similar to what most pot smokers get each time they smoke. Anyone who smokes cigarettes gets 15-30mg of Carbon Monoxide with every cigarette.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: trendal]
    #4590519 - 08/28/05 12:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I'm still quite certain that, for an actual "toxic" dose to be inhaled it would have to be more than a single lungful. It is impossible for this guy to have inhaled even one lungful of CO because he wasn't sucking it pure out of a tank. (note that an actual lungful of pure CO is probably life-threatening)

In fact, I highly doubt you could produce as much CO in smoke from pot in a light bulb as opposed to pot smoked in a pipe. Most likely the dose of CO this guy got was, at the most, similar to what most pot smokers get each time they smoke. Anyone who smokes cigarettes gets 15-30mg of Carbon Monoxide with every cigarette.




Yes, I fully agree with that.


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OfflineTheCrawlingKing
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: MXNR]
    #4590547 - 08/28/05 12:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think that your friend has suffered any damage from inhaling CO.

However, what I do think is more than possible, is that your friend is feeling a little spaced out from the drugs he took at the gathering. Perhaps he didn't notice the perceptual changes immediately, but substances like pot can bring latent psychological problems (i.e. the "foggy brain") to the surface of your consciousness. The visual problems could even be minor HPPD. I don't think he has done himself any permanent damage to his brain. There's nothing to panic about; just tell your friend to eat healthily and lay off the drugs for a couple months. Things should return to normality after a little while. :thumbup:

And just out of curiosity, what drugs did your friend take at the gathering?


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4594354 - 08/29/05 08:47 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for your help everybody. He's still reporting the symptoms:

1)Slight vision impairment.

2) Foggy Brain

3) Slight Memory Problems

4) Slightly more difficulty concentrating on a task/calling up information.

He says he only smoked that night, and only out of the light bulb vaporizer. I told his mom about what happened and she thinks he's crazy, but may have him checked out. The idea that he could fill a bulb with smoke from weed and get permanent brain damage by inhaling it, with no symptoms of unconsciousness or vomiting was crazy to her as well.

Thanks a lot guys, I've told him a lot of what you've told me and he seems in better spirits.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: MXNR]
    #4594468 - 08/29/05 10:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That sounds crazy to me too. Sounds like your friend is trying to shift blame to something. Pot doesn't cause brain damage. I've never heard of light bulbs doing any such thing. There's no brain damaging chemicals in light bulbs that I am aware of.
What you describe sounds like the symptoms of alcohol abuse.
Does your friend drink alcohol? Alcohol causes brain damage.


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OfflineTheCrawlingKing
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4595273 - 08/29/05 03:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

MXNR, it sounds as though your friend may be going through a bout of depersonalization/derealization. It's usual at first to have difficulty with concentration and memory because there is so much new stimuli (the changes in his vision, for example) that new information is sometimes hard to assimilate. Tell him to be wary of hypochondria, too. Things will get better no matter how bad they at first seem. Definitely tell him to lay off the pot.

Tell him to read this and ask if he can relate:

http://depersonalization.info/overview.html

It sounds almost EXACTLY what I'm going through at the moment, after a couple bad mushroom trips. He has no brain damage, just a chemical imbalance induced by trauma or something similar. Just tell him to chill, things will subside eventually. It's great to know that you're so concerned for his well being.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4599601 - 08/30/05 05:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Okay first of all, that author says not to inhale smoke because SMOKE IS BAD FOR YOU.

That is why people use vaporizers, so if you use a vaporizer to the point that the weed combusts, it's not going to be so healthy for you.

I mean, even just taking a small hit of weed can sometimes fog up your brain for a few days (though i'd say a few days sounds way too long, a few hours should be more like it).... it sounds like maybe just residual weed effects from low tolerance or something like that. (does he have low tolerance)

I'm sure bongs and pipes give you more carbon monoxide than lightbulbs do, the only danger is if you used a coated lightbulb and didn't clean it out.


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....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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OfflineLiquidSmoke
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: MXNR]
    #4602196 - 08/31/05 03:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If he really inhaled a strong concentration of CO in a short period of time, long term effects are definitely possible.

When your brain lacks sufficient oxygen, even if it's for a short period of time, permanent damage generally can occur.

Does he excercise regularly? If so you should ask him if he's recently found it harder to catch his breathe.

When your body experiences CO poisoning it generally will produce more blood cells to compensate. But it doesn't take into consideration your plasma/hematocrite ratio so your blood tends to thicken, whic in return raises your normal physiologic blood pressure.


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"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #4610985 - 09/02/05 01:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That makes pretty good sense to me..Hmm what is Blueberry? :stoned:


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