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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: split_by_nine] * 1
    #26062577 -

i dont need to be contributing to military spending... and yet....


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🐴:poop:
hpoo or die

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: split_by_nine]
    #26062579 -

split_by_nine said:
isnt it funny that you compmetely disregard evidence if it doesnt comply with your xenophobic rhetoric lol

now if that was brietbart reporting, youd be more convinced.


That wasn't "evidence", it was cherry picking statistics in the attempt to make a pro-immigration argument. I could pick every point apart with no issue at all, but I'm not going to waste my time.

BTW, my over 30 years of economic/financial markets study and investing goes a little beyond "brietbart". You're not talking with some moron Trump supporter.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: split_by_nine] * 1
    #26062583 -

split_by_nine said:
MagicMush123 said:
I dont see qman blaming any of problems on immigrants



qman said:
Flooding migrants from Africa and Central America into the US is officially going to destroy this nation.


all you have to do is read his comments


That isnt an example of him blaming his problems on immigrants  :lol:

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman]
    #26063227 -

Trump supporters are morons. Only morons say things like that.

People have their reasons and it’s not up to you to say who’s right or wrong about their political choices


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Relax…yOu’re triPping

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Shroomerquest] * 1
    #26063271 -

Shroomerquest said:
Trump supporters are morons. Only morons say things like that.

People have their reasons and it’s not up to you to say who’s right or wrong about their political choices


Exactly, I know many highly educated, very wealthy (multi-millionaires) people that are still Trump supporters today.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26063276 -

Being highly educated and very wealthy doesn't preclude one from erroneous judgment or selfish decision making. All we have to do is look a Trump himself to make this realization.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: christopera]
    #26063317 -

christopera said:
Being highly educated and very wealthy doesn't preclude one from erroneous judgment or selfish decision making. All we have to do is look a Trump himself to make this realization.


I agree 100%, I'm just stating that I know of MANY very successful people that voted and still support Trump.

Are there a bunch of truly highly ignorant people that support Trump today, ABSOLUTELY!!!

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26063522 -

Evolution of political discourse in the USA,
2016: it's not okay to punch nazis
2019: these don't count as concentration camps


An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

It's easy to quantify loss in terms of dollars, but what about loss in terms of humanity?


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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26063668 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Evolution of political discourse in the USA,
2016: it's not okay to punch nazis
2019: these don't count as concentration camps


An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

It's easy to quantify loss in terms of dollars, but what about loss in terms of humanity?


I agree, I would fast track the processing and deportation of the economic migrants.

In fact, I would ship them back to Mexico or whatever was their was country to apply for political asylum. This isn't a US problem, so there's no need for these camps in the first place.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #26063678 -

Lol "concentration camp expert" how do get that title? :lol: even though i have reservations regarding the camps you can surely see tbat they are people who were caught sneaking into America with some asylum seekers in the mix. What else is the us supposed to do in the meantime while they're figuring out who are the illegals and who are the refugees? Where are they supposed to stay while awaiting trial? I really dont know what else they could do when you have 100s of people coming to us as general refugees or illegal aliens... you gotta process them and see who is genuine or not, and that takes time, and that takes a trial. And with Americas prison system as full as it is, im not sure where else they could stay if its not a camp. Still, not defending camps but letting these people just walk into the states would be even more irresponsible

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26063994 -

Yeah, I agree the articles title is weak, but I generally prefer using the tools over the hyperlink or editorializing my own. That being said, there are three individuals named in the article who would probably qualify as "experts on concentration camps: Andrea Pitzer, a journalist and author of "One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps"; Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia; Jonathan Hyslop, author of "The Invention of the Concentration Camp: Cuba, Southern Africa and the Philippines, 1896–1907," and a professor of sociology and anthropology at Colgate University.

I recommend reading the entire article, as it actually goes into much greater detail than I can summarize here, but it could probably be said to centre on the processes of militarization and dehumanization.

One example given would be the conflation of asylum applicants with illegal immigration. If you present yourself at the border seeking asylum, you have a legal right to a hearing under domestic and international law. They are, in another formulation, refugees - civilian non-combatants who have not committed a crime, and who say they are fleeing violence and persecution - yet these human beings are being detained in camps on what increasingly seems to be an indefinite basis.

These detainments are civil, not criminal, and are not supposed to be punitive in the way of a prison. Remember that many of these people have not even been accused of a crime, yet they still find themselves in camps with inhuman conditions, and these conditions crystalize the dehumanization. Why should these kids get to play soccer or learn English? Why should they get legal assistance? They're detainees. The article goes into detail on the various policies of the US federal government and political rhetoric that assists in this process, and how these camps (and the conditions they create) feed into positive feedback cycles.

As for solutions, apart from taking steps to avoid militarization and dehumanization of a process that should rightfully be considered non-criminal in nature and turning the rhetoric towards one of civil process and respecting human rights, it specifically mentions a few policies. One is the process of metering asylum applications at the border, which creates an artificial delay in processing; it also questions whether detaining these people is even necessary, citing a program that used ankle bracelets instead.

Once again, the article goes into much greater detail. Don't let the headline throw you off, it is an informative read on the processes that create concentration camps.


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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman]
    #26064318 -

qman said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Evolution of political discourse in the USA,
2016: it's not okay to punch nazis
2019: these don't count as concentration camps


An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

It's easy to quantify loss in terms of dollars, but what about loss in terms of humanity?


I agree, I would fast track the processing and deportation of the economic migrants.

In fact, I would ship them back to Mexico or whatever was their was country to apply for political asylum. This isn't a US problem, so there's no need for these camps in the first place.


Lol you don’t ship asymlum seekers back to their home country. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman]
    #26064410 -

qman said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Evolution of political discourse in the USA,
2016: it's not okay to punch nazis
2019: these don't count as concentration camps


An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

It's easy to quantify loss in terms of dollars, but what about loss in terms of humanity?


I agree, I would fast track the processing and deportation of the economic migrants.

In fact, I would ship them back to Mexico or whatever was their was country to apply for political asylum. This isn't a US problem, so there's no need for these camps in the first place.


You’re right.

What this situation needs is LESS due process.


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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26064888 -

Well i feel that you deserve a thorough post, as you always do with me, so ill give a you better response after the wknd... going away to Whistler for the wknd so i won't really have time to reply.  But i read about half the article and grew a bit tired of it... i felt like it wasn't really going anywhere and was basically a really long winded way to say that they didn't agree with the current policy. Which is why i said that illegals and refugees/migrants were mixed together so i can kinda see the point in housing them in camps until their trial. Because in reality the us has no way to tell who are legitimate asylum seekers or illegal immigrants looking for work or whatever. But yea besides either turning everyone away or letting everyone in, and housing them in camps or something in the meantime until their situation is figured out, i don't really know what else they could do

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26065161 -

qman said:
split_by_nine said:
isnt it funny that you compmetely disregard evidence if it doesnt comply with your xenophobic rhetoric lol

now if that was brietbart reporting, youd be more convinced.


That wasn't "evidence", it was cherry picking statistics in the attempt to make a pro-immigration argument. I could pick every point apart with no issue at all, but I'm not going to waste my time.

BTW, my over 30 years of economic/financial markets study and investing goes a little beyond "brietbart". You're not talking with some moron Trump supporter.


No, but we are talking with someone who doesn't want to address the issue that the majority of mainstream economists believe that immigration does not hurt wages. Do you have some special economic knowledge, because it always ends up sounding like brietbart.

I don't even like mainstream economics, but that is their opinion.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman]
    #26065217 -

qman said:
split_by_nine said:
isnt it funny that you compmetely disregard evidence if it doesnt comply with your xenophobic rhetoric lol

now if that was brietbart reporting, youd be more convinced.


That wasn't "evidence", it was cherry picking statistics in the attempt to make a pro-immigration argument. I could pick every point apart with no issue at all, but I'm not going to waste my time.

BTW, my over 30 years of economic/financial markets study and investing goes a little beyond "brietbart". You're not talking with some moron Trump supporter.


No, but we are talking with someone who conveniently ignores the issue that the majority of mainstream economists believe that immigration does not depress wages. Do you have some special economic knowledge, because it always sounds like breitbart. You're the one who is cherry picking.

I don't even like mainstream economics, but that is what they believe.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: koods]
    #26065309 -

koods said:
qman said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Evolution of political discourse in the USA,
2016: it's not okay to punch nazis
2019: these don't count as concentration camps


An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

It's easy to quantify loss in terms of dollars, but what about loss in terms of humanity?


I agree, I would fast track the processing and deportation of the economic migrants.

In fact, I would ship them back to Mexico or whatever was their was country to apply for political asylum. This isn't a US problem, so there's no need for these camps in the first place.


Lol you don’t ship asymlum seekers back to their home country. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


The first country they entered is where they seek asylum, not the US for a better standard of living.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_shopping

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26065312 -

Brian Jones said:
qman said:
split_by_nine said:
isnt it funny that you compmetely disregard evidence if it doesnt comply with your xenophobic rhetoric lol

now if that was brietbart reporting, youd be more convinced.


That wasn't "evidence", it was cherry picking statistics in the attempt to make a pro-immigration argument. I could pick every point apart with no issue at all, but I'm not going to waste my time.

BTW, my over 30 years of economic/financial markets study and investing goes a little beyond "brietbart". You're not talking with some moron Trump supporter.


No, but we are talking with someone who doesn't want to address the issue that the majority of mainstream economists believe that immigration does not hurt wages. Do you have some special economic knowledge, because it always ends up sounding like brietbart.

I don't even like mainstream economics, but that is their opinion.


Not true, mainstream economists suggest that immigrants hurt low wage workers, but have minimal effect on skilled workers.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman] * 2
    #26067047 -

No they don't. You are the cherry picking liar going with your sources, rather than the majority of mainstream economists. I verified this very carefully before making the point on this forum, because I don't believe mainstream economics but that is what they believe.

Just google the question, does immigration lower wages, and then don't cherry pick. But that's like me asking you to verify that Jews didn't ruin the world.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26072807 -

The head of customs and border protection just resigned. This administration is a total joke.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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