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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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True Suffering * 1
    #26025129 -

I want to pre-text my post by saying I never never done psychedelics and I don't have any mental illness in my family. I have done almost 12,000 hours of comitted meditation, and slowly given up all of my human weaknesses. I have completed 40 day fasts, gone without sex for 3 years, etc...all in the search for "enlightenement". I has dawned that I am probably "enlightened" by now. It is grim.

Which leads me on to...true enlightenment is simply the realization that life is suffering itself.

I feel envious for the 2010 me. The 2010 was ignorant AF. The 2010 me lived in the moment, from one peak to the next, with no troughs. The 2010 me feels like how EVERYONE describes their life. The 2010 didn't give a shit about spirituality. That was for losers. The 2010 me got buried and replaced, over 9 years.

When you give everything up, you are left with TRUTH.

Truth is...suffering. That's alll there is. Suffering until death. But you realize that suicide is not an end to suffering, therefore making suicide pointless. I have no proof that suicide is pointless just pure intuition. At this level intuition is all there is.

I am aware this whole post sounds ludicrious, just as any post about enlightenment does, yet I feel I am supposed to sacrifice my "reputation" just to make it, because truth hurts. It hurts peoples fragile egos. And I have a message: stop searching for enlightenment. it is disappointment.

They say when unenlightened - chop wood carry water.

When enlightened - chop wood, carry water.

But its more like when not having seen truth - chop wood, carry water, with the hope there is more to it.

When enlightened, it's chop wood- carry water, with tho knowledge that life will only ever consist of chopping wood and carrying water.

That's it. There's no bucket of gold waiting for you at the end. Everything you are, and you experience now, is all there ever is.

It's pathetic, tbh.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker]
    #26025429 -

I believe the "Dark night of the soul" is an accepted stage on one's path.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker] * 1
    #26025544 -

I mostly agree. There isn't anything more than what is.

If what is for you is suffering, then ya, you found the truth bro. The only place I would disagree is that one may mistake that it's permanent.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: True Suffering [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #26025595 -

Sometimes life is suffering. Sometimes it is not.  Keep chopping and carrying.  You can still try improve things even if you believe it's meaningless.


--------------------
We're all mentally ill. We're all delusional. We're all junkies. It's just a matter of degree
(the Venerable Robina Curtin)

Anything I say here is a fiction, for role play or research only. Full of bollocks I am. I wouldn't believe me.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: Acuriousmycologist]
    #26025613 -

Maybe someday you can find the beauty of impermanence. The thought that I only have each moment once, to me gives those moments meaning. I'm far from enlightened though so maybe I'm still blissfully blind :smile:

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Re: True Suffering [Re: The Influence]
    #26025628 -

What kind of meaning? I guess for me using impermanence as my source of meaning would be a bit like listening to a fan. Yeah it's there but sooner or later I'm focused on something more important. Eventually it just becomes background noise. So I'm curious what the meaning you see is and how you avoid that.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: True Suffering [Re: Kickle]
    #26025670 -

The meaning can be good or bad. I guess I mean significant enough experiences that when thought about stir up emotions. Doing a good job at something, having a that one amazing barbecue or on the flipside the death of a family member, losing your prized possession etc. For me, I may have similar experiences to the ones I've already had or I may not. But I do have memories of the experiences Ive had and that's all I have of them. I cannot recreate that exact experience ever again. To me that is the meaning. My subjective emotions towards each fleeting moment, good or bad. To me it's not all suffering or happiness but a blend of both. Just trying to give a point of view that may make things seem not so bleak for the OP. But again I'm definitely not enlightened.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: The Influence]
    #26025731 -

That's good stuff man I dig it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker]
    #26027140 -

deep_thinker said:
Everything you are, and you experience now, is all there ever is.



In my first Ayahuasca Ceremony in Peru there was this moment when the Shaman finished singing his Icaro and this almost unbearable silence took over. I almost freaked out, but managed to focus on my breath and calmly expirience the silence. Interestingly at this moment I had the exact same revelation of truth you described. It was utterly terrifying and at the same time absolutetly blissful and relieving.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: Jaguarr44]
    #26027251 -

deep_thinker said:
Everything you are, and you experience now, is all there ever is.



This is a good beautiful lesson for us. Saving us from that 500 days of sitting meditations :grin:. One can still meditate with fully open eyes and walking to the here and Now and i find fasting still of beneficial for us aswell for others.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: pacmanbreed] * 1
    #26027271 -

True suffering would be if time froze....

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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker] * 4
    #26027275 -

deep_thinker said:
I want to pre-text my post by saying I never never done psychedelics and I don't have any mental illness in my family. I have done almost 12,000 hours of comitted meditation, and slowly given up all of my human weaknesses. I have completed 40 day fasts, gone without sex for 3 years, etc...all in the search for "enlightenement". I has dawned that I am probably "enlightened" by now. It is grim.

Which leads me on to...true enlightenment is simply the realization that life is suffering itself.

I feel envious for the 2010 me. The 2010 was ignorant AF. The 2010 me lived in the moment, from one peak to the next, with no troughs. The 2010 me feels like how EVERYONE describes their life. The 2010 didn't give a shit about spirituality. That was for losers. The 2010 me got buried and replaced, over 9 years.

When you give everything up, you are left with TRUTH.

Truth is...suffering. That's alll there is. Suffering until death. But you realize that suicide is not an end to suffering, therefore making suicide pointless. I have no proof that suicide is pointless just pure intuition. At this level intuition is all there is.

I am aware this whole post sounds ludicrious, just as any post about enlightenment does, yet I feel I am supposed to sacrifice my "reputation" just to make it, because truth hurts. It hurts peoples fragile egos. And I have a message: stop searching for enlightenment. it is disappointment.

They say when unenlightened - chop wood carry water.

When enlightened - chop wood, carry water.

But its more like when not having seen truth - chop wood, carry water, with the hope there is more to it.

When enlightened, it's chop wood- carry water, with tho knowledge that life will only ever consist of chopping wood and carrying water.

That's it. There's no bucket of gold waiting for you at the end. Everything you are, and you experience now, is all there ever is.

It's pathetic, tbh.






I have good news for you: You're not.

You're not enlightened. :cookiemonster:


Enlightenment is the lifting of your earthly burdens as you have tasted Divinity and have looked Divinity into the eyes.

Everything you write is testament to that you have not achieved this.

On the contrary, rather that lifted, your earthly burden is increased by your corrent state as opposed to your pre-meditation state.

So, rejoice!

You took a wrong turn and accepted a nihilist dystopia as the Highest Truth.

Shake it off.

Make yourself empty of that notion too.

That, too, shall fade.


The proof of the pudding is in that the pudding is distasteful.


Don't worry, you took a wrong turn but are likely near. This may be one of the last valleys before the moonshot so make the most of it.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: True Suffering [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26027368 -

"Apophatic theology, also known as negative theology,[1] is a form of theological thinking and religious practice which attempts to approach God, the Divine, by negation, to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God."

Truth is the most destructive thing in existence. Because it constantly destroys every false concept you have about it. Then, after your concepts about it are destroyed again and again, a state of "Not knowing" follows which creates deep anxiety, which is probably why you perceive it as suffering. This cycle is repeated indefinitely and ends every time with you discarding your current concept about truth. It leads to apophatic knowledge as described above.

As J. Krishnamurti said it:

"Till the false is seen as the false, truth is not."

Or as Carl Jung said it:

"Only when all crutches and props are broken, and no cover from the rear offers even the slightest hope of security, does it become possible for us to expirience an archetype that up till then had lain hidden...this is the archetype of meaning."

Archetype of meaning = TRUTH

Or in the poetic words of William Blake:

"The fool who persists in his folly will become wise."

Don't worry OP, you're on your way :smile:

Edited by Jaguarr44 (06/01/19 03:52 PM)

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Re: True Suffering [Re: Jaguarr44]
    #26027597 -

Read Be As You Are by David Godman pls.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?

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Re: True Suffering [Re: beforethedawn]
    #26027601 -

What does reading books have to do with spirituality? :smile:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker] * 4
    #26027749 -

Quote:
true enlightenment is simply the realization that life is suffering itself suffering (and life) is illusory.



There is a reason why the concept of Enlightenment/Realization/Christ Consciousness etc has survived for thousands of years. I doubt very much it’s because it makes people consider suicide, unless that “suicide” is Mahasamadhi :sun:

“The essential proof of Self-realization—of God's consciousness in you—is to be truly and unconditionally happy. If you are receiving more and more joy in meditation, without cessation, you may know that God is making manifest His presence in you.” - Paramahansa Yogananda

It does sounds like you are going through a dark night of the soul period. I’ve been there too, and it can seem very bleak, but fear not, like all material things, it too is impermanent and will pass. Without the darkness we would not recognise the light.

You got this. Keep going. Something wonderful is waiting for you :heart: :smile: :heart:



--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker]
    #26027767 -

that kind of excessive spiritual seeking should be considered a mental illness. be glad that youre out of it and you didnt waste your entire life chasing an imaginary carrot.  like what did you think was going to happen? that you would break thru? thats what psychedelics are for.
and as far as life being suffering, thats just a story and not the full story at that.
I'm guessing if you stop telling yourself that life is such garbage then you might be less miserable.

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Re: True Suffering [Re: mt cleverest]
    #26027851 -

Well reading that book is helpful.

Anything that doesn't last isn't real. Suffering therefore isn't real.

What have you never lost? It's not an object of the mind. Just Be.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?

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Re: True Suffering [Re: beforethedawn]
    #26028141 -

filmoee said:
True suffering would be if time froze....



:thumbup: timespace is infinitum, time-space being relative is just an illusion of the mind.


Asante said:
On the contrary, rather that lifted, your earthly burden is increased by your corrent state as opposed to your pre-meditation state.

So, rejoice!

You took a wrong turn and accepted a nihilist dystopia as the Highest Truth.

Shake it off.

Make yourself empty of that notion too.

That, too, shall fade.




PocketLady said:
It does sounds like you are going through a dark night of the soul period. I’ve been there too, and it can seem very bleak, but fear not, like all material things, it too is impermanent and will pass. Without the darkness we would not recognise the light.

You got this. Keep going. Something wonderful is waiting for you :heart: :smile: :heart:



:whathesaid:
This will be my reference aswell as i consider myself not fully there yet.
& I find this words Enlightening. That Once nihilist dystopia outlook is overcomed Later comes the bloom where God's conciousness will start to flow. Thereby experiencing cumulative joy in meditation as the light conquers the dark. Consumed by the light comes the meditation state of walking the here & now with open eyes full of joy.

pacmanbreed said:
One can still constantly meditate with fully open eyes while walking to the here and Now



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Re: True Suffering [Re: deep_thinker] * 2
    #26038070 -

deep_thinker said:
Which leads me on to...true enlightenment is simply the realization that life is suffering itself.



Where does kindness, love, and joy fit into your view of reality?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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