PocketLady said:

To understand how delusion arises, practice watching your mind. Begin by simply letting it relax. Without thinking of the past or the future, without feeling hope or fear about this thing or that, let it rest comfortably, open and natural. In this space of the mind, there is no problem, no suffering. Then something catches your attention - an image, a sound, a smell. Your mind splits into inner and outer, self and other, subject and object. In simply perceiving the object, there is still no problem. But when you zero in on it, you notice that it's big or small, white or black, square or circular; and then you make a judgment - for example, whether it's pretty or ugly. Having made that judgment, you react to it: you decide you like it or don't like it. That's when the problem starts, because "I like it" leads to "I want it." We want to possess what we perceive to be desirable. Similarly, "I don't like it" leads to "I don't want it." If we like something, want it, and can't have it, we suffer. If we don't want it, but can't keep it away, again we suffer. Our suffering seems to occur because of the object of our desire or aversion, but that's not really so - it happens because the mind splits into object-subject duality and becomes involved in wanting or not wanting something.

~ Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche

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Good share. I love it.

I was wondering a scenario. When Im at peace with the here & now with no hope - no fear, aint thinking of past nor future, and Im very relaxed. No problem or suffering. Then something catches my attention! And mind split into self and other, subject - object. And that object it made of air. I had to zoom in! for I smelled it accidentaly for it was a stikinking fart... Having a made a judgement, I have reacted to it. And decided I really dont like it. Its really the start of the problem, because I dont like the smell - leads to I dont want the fucking smell. If we don't want it, but can't keep it away, again we suffer from the Fart.

How can we prevent the arising of delusion to maintain serenity in that case?

       

Quote:

We suffer because we are human.  Biology has needs or decay sets in.

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pacmanbreed said:

I was wondering a scenario. When Im at peace with the here & now with no hope - no fear, aint thinking of past nor future, and Im very relaxed. No problem or suffering. Then something catches my attention! And mind split into self and other, subject - object. And that object it made of air. I had to zoom in! for I smelled it accidentaly for it was a stikinking fart... Having a made a judgement, I have reacted to it. And decided I really dont like it. Its really the start of the problem, because I dont like the smell - leads to I dont want the fucking smell. If we don't want it, but can't keep it away, again we suffer from the Fart.

How can we prevent the arising of delusion to maintain serenity in that case?

       

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Haha, great example, love it. Well, that is really the million dollar question, and I guess the answer is to really master meditation, so that you can hold that state of serenity at all times, and to have witnessed the delusions and recognised their illusory nature to such an extent that they no longer hold any substance to you, and thus you aren’t inclined to give attention to them anymore. That coupled with some kind of purification which permanently removes the subconscious impressions which create those kinds of judgements in the first place. Basically, by following some kind of complete spiritual path lol.

I’ve spent the last several years working on all of the above. The discriminating and judgemental mind is so ingrained in us, it takes a lot of effort to break free from it, but personally, with consistent effort I’ve seen great results which make me believe it is absolutely possible to be free from suffering completely

pacmanbreed said:

Freeing from sufferings sounds good and becoming a being of pure love.
your doin great. Ive been lurking on your shared spiritual quotes and i loved em. I view spirituality a must for everyone. Imagine if everyone can cooperate in consuming the smell and just laugh it out..

Meditation really helps in breath suppresion. But i think the masters can (just do it)smack it all without judgement. Though the silent type buddhas are still few, thats why I try to avoid relasing it in a confined space as much as i can..

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Lol! Thank you I agree that there aren’t too many Buddhas around the place right now, at least not many that know that they are. Even more reason why it’s important some of us start getting free

Morel Guy said:

It's all chemical.  Suppose some are geared more to releasing pleasure chems in the body and brain.  Everyone's suffering is unique.  Sure, attitude plays a large part.

Buddhism talks of transcending identity as a whole.  It occurs over a massive period of time.  Life times.  Until then, we suffer.  Like a dark room, you know it's dark, but cannot see what is 'missing'.  Just knowing that it's absent.  That's suffering.

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The particular things which make us suffer are unique mixtures in everyone, for sure. But ultimately, everyone suffers for the same reason - their attachment to thoughts and sensory perceptions (e.g the judging mind). You can say it’s chemical, but, for example, it is possible to have an orgasm using the mind alone. I know, I’ve done it! So, it would seem that the mind is able to influence our bodies to such an extent that we can experience all kinds of releasing of nice hormones. Think about when you are in love, all of that serotonin and dopamine. What created it? Your mind and it’s perception of love at that particular time. I would say it’s all mental, rather than chemical. It’s just that some of the mental stuff runs so deep, the subconscious/unconscious etc that it is hard to effect change from the conscious level, like if someone gets into a cycle of anxiety or depression. This is where certain spiritual practices which go beyond the conscious mind come in.

And yes, some of the teachings say that it does indeed take lifetimes. We spend lifetimes building good karma, perhaps as we advance going through various experiences of spirituality and religion. But what if we have already lives thousands of lifetimes, doing just that? Perhaps THIS lifetime is that one lifetime where we have built enough good merit that we are finally given the keys to true Realization and freedom from suffering. Perhaps it’s not

PocketLady said:

To understand how delusion arises, practice watching your mind. Begin by simply letting it relax. Without thinking of the past or the future, without feeling hope or fear about this thing or that, let it rest comfortably, open and natural. In this space of the mind, there is no problem, no suffering. Then something catches your attention - an image, a sound, a smell. Your mind splits into inner and outer, self and other, subject and object. In simply perceiving the object, there is still no problem. But when you zero in on it, you notice that it's big or small, white or black, square or circular; and then you make a judgment - for example, whether it's pretty or ugly. Having made that judgment, you react to it: you decide you like it or don't like it. That's when the problem starts, because "I like it" leads to "I want it." We want to possess what we perceive to be desirable. Similarly, "I don't like it" leads to "I don't want it." If we like something, want it, and can't have it, we suffer. If we don't want it, but can't keep it away, again we suffer. Our suffering seems to occur because of the object of our desire or aversion, but that's not really so - it happens because the mind splits into object-subject duality and becomes involved in wanting or not wanting something.

~ Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche

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Morel Guy said:

Buddhism talks of transcending identity as a whole.  It occurs over a massive period of time.  Life times.  Until then, we suffer.  Like a dark room, you know it's dark, but cannot see what is 'missing'.  Just knowing that it's absent.  That's suffering.

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Nataraja_Shiva said:

I think that any dharma practice is a good practice, this is especially true in the Mahayana school. Nothing is lost by living according to moral virtue, but there are of course many different views on how we aught to live. Even Nietzsche's idea of the ubermensch was non violent in morality while still refuting Buddhist ideas. Life for Nietzsche aught to be a life that one could look back and say "I would do this again", as illustrated in his idea of the eternal recurrence of the same. There was no giving up on material possession and attachment, but rather a devotion to ones work, ones art, ones passions.

Nonetheless, as I am beginning a philosophical ramble, I appreciate Buddhist philosophy and find it has great merit for myself and others. I don't expect to realize nibbana this lifetime, but learning about how others have done it is helpful for me in living a meaningful life after the war, and its helpful for others around me as well.

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PocketLady said:

Well, no one said it was easy But what is said, time and time again, is that those who genuinely seek will find what they are looking for.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
Matthew 7:7

It really depends on how much you want it. And at the moment, some people don't, they would rather partake in (temporary) worldly pleasures, and that's just fine. But it doesn't mean it's impossible

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It good to see yah mixin the paths. For one aint be completed without the other.

14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.matt 7

Quote:

Like a dark room, you know it's dark, but cannot see what is 'missing'.  Just knowing that it's absent.  That's suffering

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Quote:

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

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I love that quote. The Bible is filled with some much wisdom, a lot of it much deeper than we are led to believe.

Yes, I think there is an inherent sense of something missing in a lot of humanity, which is maybe the reason we drive ourselves crazy seeking all sorts of pleasures and comforts in the world, food, sex, drugs, whatever. We are trying to find something that satiates us, makes us whole, gives us bliss and peace, but unfortunately none of it can ever satisfy us for long. We are soon off looking for the next ‘hit’, completely powerless to whatever events unfold in our lives. The spiritual path happens when you get sick of that shit 

Quote:

The Bible is filled with some much wisdom, a lot of it much deeper than we are led to believe. The spiritual path happens when you get sick of that shit 

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For real, its painful to be stuck in such a constant loop.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.Luke 6

Specially on that day of dissolution of the corrupt systems for it is also written in the book theyve used to preach, unfortunately twisted for self-gain.
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?Matthew 12.

I view it same as gautama teachings or yet a continuation of it in a social settings. Theyve all basically experienced the same. From dukkha, asceticism, etc..