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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Tantrika]
    #25900619 -

Automation robots are interesting and Japan is definitely already experimenting with robots as a replacement for people. However, the technology just isnt there yet for a massive labor force of robots doing complex human tasks.

It definitely could (will?) happen in the future thou.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25901219 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
Did you know Japan has a labor shortage?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/09/the-changing-face-of-japan-labour-shortage-opens-doors-to-immigrant-workers

In order to help with this issue, Japan relaxed immigration policies to encourage foriegn labor.

Do u think this is dangerous? Is Japan putting their country at risk by allowing foreigners into their country? If u were Japan, what would u have done to fix the labor shortage?


Forced immigration to acquire cheap labor is ludicrious.  The most heinous nonsense ive ever heard of.  Figolure out how to rule your own people or step aside and let someohe who can do it.


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: meltdowner] * 1
    #25901305 -

"Forced" immigration is a bit of a stretch. Forced immigration would be slavery. Its more of a relaxed immigration, as in people already want to move to Japan but cant become citizens because of Japanese immigration laws. The labor shortage bypasses those laws.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25901923 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
"Forced" immigration is a bit of a stretch. Forced immigration would be slavery. Its more of a relaxed immigration, as in people already want to move to Japan but cant become citizens because of Japanese immigration laws. The labor shortage bypasses those laws.


The only reason Japan is considering it is because of pressure from other nations.  This isn't Japan's idea.


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: meltdowner]
    #25902658 -

Global economies will do that. Gotta compete on that World Stage.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25963998 -

The Emperor of Japan just stepped down from his position: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/30/718253308/emperor-akihito-japans-surprising-pacifist-steps-down-after-30-years

I wonder how this will affect immigration? Labor laws and visas? Or does him leaving the role of Emperor have no effect on laws?

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: meltdowner] * 2
    #25964154 -

meltdowner said:
LogicaL Chaos said:
"Forced" immigration is a bit of a stretch. Forced immigration would be slavery. Its more of a relaxed immigration, as in people already want to move to Japan but cant become citizens because of Japanese immigration laws. The labor shortage bypasses those laws.


The only reason Japan is considering it is because of pressure from other nations.  This isn't Japan's idea.


Now you are just talking gibberish. Japan feels they must import workers because they are an economic powerhouse with a population that has been shrinking for decades. Asserting that one of the most developed countries is bringing in foreign workers because of pressure from other nations defies all rational thought.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #25964173 -

Brian Jones said:
meltdowner said:
LogicaL Chaos said:
"Forced" immigration is a bit of a stretch. Forced immigration would be slavery. Its more of a relaxed immigration, as in people already want to move to Japan but cant become citizens because of Japanese immigration laws. The labor shortage bypasses those laws.


The only reason Japan is considering it is because of pressure from other nations.  This isn't Japan's idea.


Now you are just talking gibberish. Japan feels they must import workers because they are an economic powerhouse with a population that has been shrinking for decades. Asserting that one of the most developed countries is bringing in foreign workers because of pressure from other nations defies all rational thought.


It's a stupid argument to bring in any immigrants into first world nations when we consider the coming destruction of jobs due to automation in the next 10 years.  If the natives are going to be shit out of luck, why bring in millions of broke migrants into the mix?  It makes no sense.

Japan is usually one step ahead of every nation when it comes to implementing the newest technologies, their massive destruction of jobs from automation is coming sooner than others.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman] * 1
    #25966976 -

But that kind of automated technology is still years away. Besides, dont they still need people to build the robots that do the automated work?

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman] * 1
    #25967449 -

Japan is dealing with reality here. Show me an example of a high level capitalist economy that can stay high level with a shrinking population. It's not like they want to bring foreigners in. They believe they have too. I don't think too many economists would disagree with them.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25967544 -

Desperate times, desperate measures.

Reminds me of WWII and the national draft. The military needed people so bad, had to do a mandetory draft. Fucked up.

Now Japans doing nearly the same thing, but for their labor force. Its almost like their country is dieing just because they arent poppin' babies fast enough. Bizarre.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25967640 -

Japan has a homogeneous population. You could say they are almost all the majority group. The majority groups in America and Europe, like Japan, reproduce at a declining rate. The U.S. and Europe have had a lot of immigration which both adds people and adds people who have more children than the majority groups. That's why Japan has a declining population and the rest of the advanced world does not.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25967773 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
But that kind of automated technology is still years away. Besides, dont they still need people to build the robots that do the automated work?


For every job created to "build the robots that do the automated work", we're likely going to lose maybe 1000 jobs. That's not a good ratio. Ultimately, robots will be building robots.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25967776 -

Brian Jones said:
Japan is dealing with reality here. Show me an example of a high level capitalist economy that can stay high level with a shrinking population. It's not like they want to bring foreigners in. They believe they have too. I don't think too many economists would disagree with them.


Does Japan have a shortage of labor and soaring wages today?  Nope, not even close.

Again, technology is going to be destroying millions and millions of jobs in the near future, it's stupid to bring in immigrants today on the potential need for labor.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25967786 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
Desperate times, desperate measures.

Reminds me of WWII and the national draft. The military needed people so bad, had to do a mandetory draft. Fucked up.

Now Japans doing nearly the same thing, but for their labor force. Its almost like their country is dieing just because they arent poppin' babies fast enough. Bizarre.


My brother and sister in law (who is from Japan and her family still lives there) visit every 2 years for about 3-4 weeks at a time. I can assure you Japan is not dying, in fact it's doing better for the citizens than the US and most of the EU. 

The photos of the place are just amazing, it makes the US look like a dump at best.

Don't by into the financial media propaganda, Japan is doing just fine. How is the average citizen in India and China doing relative to the citizen in Japan?  I think that answers your question.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman]
    #25967816 -

qman said:
For every job created to "build the robots that do the automated work", we're likely going to lose maybe 1000 jobs. That's not a good ratio. Ultimately, robots will be building robots.


Source?  Or better yet, empirical evidence to prove your claim?  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25967820 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
For every job created to "build the robots that do the automated work", we're likely going to lose maybe 1000 jobs. That's not a good ratio. Ultimately, robots will be building robots.


Source?  Or better yet, empirical evidence to prove your claim?  :popcorn:


Actually Qman is right about automation not creating as many jobs I don't know if those numbers are accurate but it is a correct assessment. New jobs will be created but not in the numbers needed to employ everyone who needs a job.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman]
    #25967829 -

qman said:
Don't by into the financial media propaganda, Japan is doing just fine.


They're certainly doing a lot better than the US (#9 vs #21).

Rank Country Med wealth/adult
1  Iceland 203,847
2  Australia 191,453
3   Switzerland 183,339
4  Luxembourg 164,284
5  Belgium 163,429
6  Netherlands 114,935
7  France 106,827
8  Canada 106,342
9  Japan 103,861
10  New Zealand 98,613
11  United Kingdom 97,169
12  Singapore 91,656
13  Spain 87,188
14  Norway 80,054
15  Italy 79,239
16  Taiwan 78,177
17  Malta 76,116
18  Ireland 72,473
19  Austria 70,074
20  South Korea 65,463
21  United States 61,667
22  Denmark 60,999
23  Qatar 59,978
24  Hong Kong 58,905
25  Israel 54,966
26  Finland 45,606
27  Greece 40,789
28  Sweden 39,709
29  Germany 35,169
30  Slovenia 34,043
31  Portugal 31,313
32  Libya 26,939
33  Kuwait 26,278
34  United Arab Emirates 25,267
35  Chile 23,812
36  Seychelles 21,349
37  Slovakia 21,203
38  Estonia 18,895
39  Croatia 17,131
40  Czech Republic 17,018
41  Mauritius 16,472
42  China 16,333
43  Hungary 15,026
44  Aruba 14,901
45  Oman 14,304
46  Brunei 14,154
47  Bahrain 13,385
48  Saudi Arabia 12,847
49  Uruguay 12,556
50  Montenegro 12,060
51  Bahamas 11,385
52  Lithuania 11,161
53  Bulgaria 11,013
54  Poland 10,572
55  Cyprus 10,384
56  Costa Rica 9,813
57  Barbados 8,522
58  Panama 8,358
59  Albania 8,157
60  Latvia 7,540
61  Georgia 7,078
62  Malaysia 7,000
63  Gabon 6,973
64  Tonga 6,796
65  Bosnia and Herzegovina 6,762
66  South Africa 6,726
67  Romania 6,658
68  Samoa 6,516
69  Iraq 6,515
70  Tunisia 6,226
71  Peru 6,036
72  Mexico 5,784
73  Jordan 5,745
74  Macedonia 5,640
75  Dominica 5,548
76  Trinidad and Tobago 5,076
77  Colombia 4,937
78  Serbia 4,903
79  Turkmenistan 4,824
80  Antigua and Barbuda 4,712
81  El Salvador 4,616
82  Mongolia 4,616
83  Brazil 4,263
84  Namibia 3,944
85  Lebanon 3,932
86  Solomon Islands 3,835
87  Grenada 3,704
88  Botswana 3,652
89  Saint Lucia 3,525
90  Azerbaijan 3,410
91  Armenia 3,391
92  Fiji 3,254
93  Ecuador 3,211
94  Argentina 3,176
95  Algeria 3,175
96  Angola 3,175
97  Equatorial Guinea 3,057
98  Honduras 2,887
99  Russia 2,739
100  Maldives 2,702
101  Turkey 2,677
102  Paraguay 2,589
103  Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 2,547
104  Jamaica 2,507
105  Morocco 2,426
106  Sri Lanka 2,415
107  Vanuatu 2,346
108  Belize 2,298
109  Djibouti 2,123
110  Papua New Guinea 2,117
111  Bolivia 2,111
112  Philippines 1,915
113  Iran 1,899
114  Vietnam 1,806
115  Kyrgyzstan 1,797
116  Pakistan 1,711
117  Indonesia 1,597
118  Laos 1,567
119  Eritrea 1,499
120  Guyana 1,454
121  Eswatini (Swaziland) 1,388
122  Cambodia 1,365
123  Zimbabwe 1,317
124  São Tomé and Príncipe 1,311
125  East Timor 1,303
126  India 1,289
127  Senegal 1,270
128  Benin 1,237
129  Republic of the Congo 1,219
130  Suriname 1,147
131  Ivory Coast 1,119
132  Thailand 1,085
133  Nicaragua 1,054
134  Bangladesh 1,006
135  Comoros 971
136  Togo 917
137  Cameroon 897
138  Kenya 880
139  Lesotho 857
140  Nepal 834
141  Mauritania 764
142  Belarus 740
143  Myanmar 739
144  Haiti 619
145  Tajikistan 618
146  Yemen 594
147  Burkina Faso 569
148  Syria 500
149  Mali 468
150  Liberia 410
151  Ghana 398
152  Zambia 390
153  Tanzania 383
154  Niger 379
155  Egypt 346
156  Central African Republic 332
157  Gambia 327
158  Guinea 323
159  Guinea-Bissau 296
160  Chad 294
161  Afghanistan 290
162  Uganda 287
163  Rwanda 254
164  Sudan 231
165  Nigeria 208
166  Mozambique 201
167  Madagascar 179
168  Sierra Leone 153
169  Kazakhstan 152
170  Burundi 142
171  Democratic Republic of the Congo 123
172  Ethiopia 78
173  Malawi 54
174  Ukraine 40


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25967836 -

YangSupporter said:
Actually Qman is right about automation not creating as many jobs I don't know if those numbers are accurate but it is a correct assessment. New jobs will be created but not in the numbers needed to employ everyone who needs a job.


Is there proof of qman's claim that 1000 jobs will be lost for every job created to build robots?  We have about 100 years of history to look at.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25967839 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
YangSupporter said:
Actually Qman is right about automation not creating as many jobs I don't know if those numbers are accurate but it is a correct assessment. New jobs will be created but not in the numbers needed to employ everyone who needs a job.


Is there proof of qman's claim that 1000 jobs will be lost for every job created to build robots?  We have about 100 years of history to look at.


The new automation wave is going to be very different than in the past. In the past jobs were created for low skill workers in large numbers now the new jobs that result from automation will only go to the cream of the crop skill wise. For example the most common job in the United States is truck driver and retail worker both of those jobs are going to be automated within the next decade. All of those workers are not going to become computer programmers.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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