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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
    #5913075 - 07/29/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
I'm sure there are plenty of companies that wish they could still get away with hiring Pinkertons to shoot strikers.



I wonder what would happen if Pinkertons unionized.


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5913229 - 07/29/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
(With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.




Thats a sad statement.. The biggest thing I am in support of unions for is the fact that they are politically active. Sure they passed these laws to better protect workers but its not like they are permanent.

Unions are the only ones fighting to keep these laws from being overturned and they work daily on keeping new laws from passing that only serve to support big business and not the workers.

Unions do MUCH more for you and all other non-union members than you know and they do it only with the money given to them by union members. In return they reward us with higher pay, good benefits, job security and yes, better working conditions.


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5913257 - 07/29/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Unions do NOT insure the quality of work, its quite the opposite in fact.

Case in point...I work at an International Airport, and have for the last 4 years. Our union there is the Teamsters, one of the biggest in the United States. Management is very hamstrung by the union. Its so difficult for management to fire anyone thats its nigh on impossible. The consequence being that nobody has an incentive to work hard. We have people there who dont give a fuck about their job. They do the minimum amount necessary to get paid, but the company cant fire them, not without a long 1-2 year grievance fight. Its stupid. Those of us who have to work hard to pick up the slack HATE it. If the company could get rid of the dead-weight, productivity would go up by a large margin, I guarantee it.




Then its up to you to push them out. We get the same thing all the time.. While its not too hard to get fried while in my union, we do have some slackers who float around from store to store. We have a ton of work to do every day and if someone isnt doing their part to get it done we kick their ass.

Not literally but we will harass them into either working harder or if they dont like it, leave.

How can you say that your union doesnt improve your working conditions? Have you ever read your union contract with the employer? In it they outline everything the employer is responsible for. If they do not comply then its up to you to tell your steward and then he will tell the union and things will get taken care of..

Im sure that theirs allot that they do for you that you dont even know about. You should start by reading your contract.. Ive read mine three times now.. Then again, Im the steward.


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GabbaDj

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Edited by GabbaDj (07/29/06 09:41 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Vvellum]
    #5913310 - 07/29/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
the problem with unions are the same problems that plague government, corporations, and often other large organizations that swim in money and power. that is not to say that all government, corporations, or unions are inherently bad - I'm sure we can all agree that all of these entities do provide some good to the world despite their shortcomings and abuse.

I think a remedy for corruption and the flight of power away from individuals further from the top is local organizations that work together in decentralized (or confederated) networks - but that's just my opinion.




It is true that unions have had many of the same corruption problems inherent in businesses. I'm sure most people are aware of the numerous instances where the mafia had a hand in union affairs, or when union officials were paid off.

They're definitely not perfect organizations. If I ever came across a perfect group of people, I'd have to assume I was dead, because there are no perfect organizations of people on this earth.

However, despite instances of unions having rotten cores, they are a necessary component of maintaining fair labor practices. Unfortunately the only entity that can hold its own against a large powerful corporation is an equally large and powerful union. Smaller groups of people are easy to crush, bribe, intimidate, and generally destroy.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
    #5913420 - 07/29/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


However, despite instances of unions having rotten cores, they are a necessary component of maintaining fair labor practices. Unfortunately the only entity that can hold its own against a large powerful corporation is an equally large and powerful union. Smaller groups of people are easy to crush, bribe, intimidate, and generally destroy.




Kudos.. Yah, they have caught most every leader in my union doing wrong and illegal stuff, some are gone but many stay. Thing is, while they blow millions on fancy outings and bad investments that make only them millions they do also spend millions more to fight big business and shareholders and CEOs and other corporate executives from stepping on the toes of the employees that they count on to bring in the money they "make".


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GabbaDj

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #5916083 - 07/30/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't really have anything to add with regards to union vs non-union, the economy, management vs workers and everything else discussed so far in this thread. However, I do feel weird/uncomfortable with the union culture. I'm in the IBEW and while they do provide a ton of good benefits, job security and job finding services.. I don't like the Borg like mentality that comes across sometimes. Too often politics are brought into it. Who and what you vote for, what your political party affiliation is and a general "in your face" approach to it all. Hell in the union hall, in a back waiting room granted, there was a wall with various news clippings, signs etc on it and one of them just said "BUSH" but the S has been replaced by a swastika. Now don't get me wrong, I despise bush.. but I found that sign to be in poor taste, especially in a union hall which should try to remain at least politically civil.

Still, I pay my dues and enjoy the benefits. I just don't participate in rallies, buy t-shirts and other merchandise or whatever. It just totally goes against my grain to give that kind of blind allegiance. It's why I don't really consider myself a patriot or nationalist either. I approve of my union and country for the good they do but in no way give them a free pass on the bad shit. :shrug:

</ramble>


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Alex213]
    #5917725 - 07/31/06 04:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Labor laws are a joke. What does a multi-million dollar company care about being fined 1500 bucks for breaking labor laws? It's about as much deterrant as fining Ted Bundy 50 cents for each murder.




Then enforce the laws or boycott the companies and work someplace else. Germany just did it with Walmart and didn't need any government help, be it in the form of your supposed worthless labor laws or my supposed worthless unions.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5918569 - 07/31/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You can't enforce the law on people who are above it.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5919272 - 07/31/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> You can't enforce the law on people who are above it.

I feel like I am debating Rush Limbaugh here... not you in particular, but the way this thread goes around and around the point.  For example, unions are protected by the law.  If they weren't, they would be powerless.  So if management was really above the law, as you claim, unions wouldn't be effective.  :rolleyes:


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5920894 - 08/01/06 02:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Not all management are above the law. But it's illegal to cross the boarder in this country without proper documents, yet people do it all the time and the companies that employ them are not held accountable. That's just one example of big business being above the law. It is absolutely impossible to enforce the law on these people when it comes to some things.

What happens if big business does get caught in some illegal labor practice? They can always close shop, move the company overseas and run things how they want without loosing any of their market share, thus no consequences.

Lets not forget about the lobbying power of corporate america in our govt, the small time employee interests are virtually buried under the rug as far as what laws are passed. At least with unions in washington lobbying for them there is someone, who else is going to lobby for them? Call your congressmen right? Lot of good that will do with no organization and funding.

While they are not above the law when it comes to everything, you cannot deny there are some things they are absolutely above the law on. And with millions of dollars for defense any prosecutor will have the struggle of his life to get glue to stick on these people.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5921354 - 08/01/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> You can't enforce the law on people who are above it.

I feel like I am debating Rush Limbaugh here... not you in particular, but the way this thread goes around and around the point.  For example, unions are protected by the law.  If they weren't, they would be powerless.  So if management was really above the law, as you claim, unions wouldn't be effective.  :rolleyes:




I think you're missing the point. It's not a matter of being above the law as the law being meaningless. Fining a multi-billion dollar company 500 bucks for breaking labor laws doesn't mean anything. Compare that to the money lost when a union walks every damn worker in the place out the door for a week and you understand why companies prefer "labor laws" over unions every time.

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