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Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws * 1
    #25899420 -

Did you know Japan has a labor shortage?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/09/the-changing-face-of-japan-labour-shortage-opens-doors-to-immigrant-workers

In order to help with this issue, Japan relaxed immigration policies to encourage foriegn labor.

Do u think this is dangerous? Is Japan putting their country at risk by allowing foreigners into their country? If u were Japan, what would u have done to fix the labor shortage?


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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25899422 -

Sounds like it’s more like a migrant worker program than actual immigration. Workers cannot stay permanently and can’t bring their families.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: koods] * 3
    #25899479 -

Whatever the status of the program, Japan's need for foreign workers will be permanent. They have an extremely aging and shrinking population. If they don't keep pumping foreign workers in they will have a seriously shrinking economy, which overrides any concern with xenophobia.

In all developed countries birthrates are declining in correlation with wealth, education and urbanization. Birth control is common and desired because a high standard of living requires education which is expensive. Most of Europe and the U.S. would have reproduction below the replacement rate if not for immigration, and the newcomers have higher fertility rates associated with their agrarian orgins. In particular white European and American populations are shrinking.


Because Japan has traditionally resisted immigration their underpopulation problem has become particularly acute. It remains to be seen whether they can implement a foreign worker program that prevents permanent residency. They definitely have experienced less social mixing than the West and they have a smaller more densely populated landmass than the U.S., but so does Europe.


In the end the need for workers tends to overcome all other concerns.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25899482 -

my FB friend tried to get Mexican food in Japan and the cook put curry powder in the rice


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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: koods]
    #25899536 -

koods said:
Sounds like it’s more like a migrant worker program than actual immigration. Workers cannot stay permanently and can’t bring their families.



Accordinf to Brian Jones top-shelf logic, it sounds like Japan will need to loosen immigration laws to keep up with the labor shortage. Time will tell whan Japan descides as necessary to refuek their economy :strokebeard:

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25899626 -

Total nonsense, Japan doesn't need to bring in poor migrants to create economic prosperity. The Japanese are doing just fine without immigration. 

My sister in law is from Japan, and her and my brother visit every other year. The people don't want immigrants, that's for sure.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25899642 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
koods said:
Sounds like it’s more like a migrant worker program than actual immigration. Workers cannot stay permanently and can’t bring their families.



Accordinf to Brian Jones top-shelf logic, it sounds like Japan will need to loosen immigration laws to keep up with the labor shortage. Time will tell whan Japan descides as necessary to refuek their economy :strokebeard:



No, Brian is spewing MSM nonsense about the Japanese economy.

If there's a massive shortage of labor in Japan, what should we be seeing in Japan today? 

There's no wage growth or inflation in Japan, the labor shortage is pure propaganda.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Doubts-persist-over-Japan-s-claim-of-wage-growth-for-2018

The capitalists want cheap labor to increase profits margins and to dilute overall wages to hurt the average citizen.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: yeah]
    #25899948 -

yeah said:
my FB friend tried to get Mexican food in Japan and the cook put curry powder in the rice



:awedisgust:

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #25900050 -

My image of Japan is one of them being at the forefront of giant monster battling robots

the solution to Japan's labour shortage will be aggressive automation and a universal basic income so otakus can stay home in vr headsets with their waifus

brb moving to future Japan

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #25900068 -

I agree with you. The notion of workforces is becoming more and more obsolete, especially in a hyper-developed collective like Japan. They'll automate fully probably before everyone else, including China which has so many people, and then this whole issue of labor shortage will mean nothing. I take the long view of it, and it won't be that long, really. Without some practical UBI, everyone will be in huge trouble in less than twenty years.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #25900080 -

Anybody that's ever done some machine programming knows how labor intensive it can be. Often, it's so labor intensive that it's easier to do the task that the machine is to do but with man power. Automation is going to happen, but there are many examples where it's less than practical and as a result it won't be automated.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera] * 1
    #25900133 -

Construction work like mine will never be automated . You would literally need to build a terminator that has  advanced critical thinking abilities to do what I do .


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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25900159 -

DividedQuantum said:
I agree with you. The notion of workforces is becoming more and more obsolete, especially in a hyper-developed collective like Japan. They'll automate fully probably before everyone else, including China which has so many people, and then this whole issue of labor shortage will mean nothing. I take the long view of it, and it won't be that long, really. Without some practical UBI, everyone will be in huge trouble in less than twenty years.



This "shortage of labor" nonsense isn't anything new.  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-job-openings-jump-to-record-71-million-2018-10-16

Yet, there's little to no wage growth and now interest rates have been crashing lower.  None of those indicators are pointing to a shortage of labor, it's pure BS.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25900198 -

DividedQuantum said:
I agree with you. The notion of workforces is becoming more and more obsolete, especially in a hyper-developed collective like Japan. They'll automate fully probably before everyone else, including China which has so many people, and then this whole issue of labor shortage will mean nothing. I take the long view of it, and it won't be that long, really. Without some practical UBI, everyone will be in huge trouble in less than twenty years.



It is particularly interesting as Japan has been making efforts towards automation in areas other nations have not sought to tackle yet
'fortunately' that also exposes ways the system is not ready for that level of automation
Quote:
It turns out that even robots are having a tough time holding down a job. Japan’s Henn-na “Strange” Hotel has laid off half its 243 robots after they created more problems than they could solve, as first reported by The Wall Street Journal.

One of the layoffs included a doll-shaped assistant in each hotel room called Churi. Siri, Google Assistant, and Alexa can answer questions about local businesses’ opening and closing times, but Churi couldn’t. When hotel guests asked Churi “What time does the theme park open?” it didn’t have a good answer. That was a problem because Churi was supposed to help ameliorate the Strange Hotel’s staff shortage by substituting in for human workers.

Others on the chopping block:

    Two velociraptor robots positioned at check-in were also decommissioned because human workers essentially had to do their jobs for them and photocopy guests’ passports manually.
    Two robot luggage carriers could only reach about 24 of the over 100 rooms in the hotel and failed in rain or snow. They would also often get stuck trying to pass by each other.
    The hotel’s main concierge robot also didn’t know how to answer questions about flight schedules and nearby tourist attractions. It has since been replaced by a human.

Many of the robots that have been retired were in service for years, making them outdated. The hotel decided it was easier to fire them than to replace them, citing high costs. And in the end, a lot of the work had to be left to humans anyway, especially when it came to asking more complex questions. It seems we’re still a little ways off from a completely automated hotel.



https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/15/18184198/japans-robot-hotel-lay-off-work-for-humans

Japan may be sort of an example of shifting styles of unskilled employment tho
while businesses look to cut out unskilled labour and replace them with robots
Japan has been developing a business of paid non-sexual dating, providing a substitute form of human intimacy that a robot prolly could not sufficiently replace

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman]
    #25900205 -

qman said:
DividedQuantum said:
I agree with you. The notion of workforces is becoming more and more obsolete, especially in a hyper-developed collective like Japan. They'll automate fully probably before everyone else, including China which has so many people, and then this whole issue of labor shortage will mean nothing. I take the long view of it, and it won't be that long, really. Without some practical UBI, everyone will be in huge trouble in less than twenty years.



This "shortage of labor" nonsense isn't anything new.  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-job-openings-jump-to-record-71-million-2018-10-16

Yet, there's little to no wage growth and now interest rates have been crashing lower.  None of those indicators are pointing to a shortage of labor, it's pure BS.



This link sort of touches on one of my concerns with UBI
it states
Quote:
What happened: Job openings increased in government, construction, financial services, health care and professional services, the Labor Department said Tuesday.

Job openings declined slightly in retail, manufacturing and the restaurant business, though they were still at high levels overall.



UBI is good if it affords people the flexibility to get out and find meaningful employment to cover more expensive leisure activities
but a glaring potential weakness is that if there are insufficient work training programs for unskilled workers to move into more skilled fields after their previous positions have been phased out
then it just serves as a system of paying poor people to stay poor

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Tantrika]
    #25900230 -

It's nothing new; it has been for some years with the aging population in Japan.  Japan has been using various programs to employee cheaper labors, for example - education programs, exchange programs...etc, to hire cheap labors from China, south east Asia countries.  These laborers often been confined within specific areas and often do not get the same benefits as typical Japanese citizen.


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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #25900441 -

Psilynut2 said:
Construction work like mine will never be automated . You would literally need to build a terminator that has  advanced critical thinking abilities to do what I do .



At my day job I work with unionized construction crews. My experiences echo your experience. The same is true in much of the vast material sciences. There are so many one off and low production applications that machines won't ever take that place. It takes longer to program a machine process and then load the part (generally 2 separate people) than it does for one guy to just machine the the thing manually. Examples like this are almost endless though. IT for example won't be automated any time soon. And there are several studies that are starting to show that automation might increase employment demand.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25900446 -

And I am going to add, one of my old bosses runs a machine shop in Cleveland. They are a lights off organization. That means that they (2 employees in the company) do some day time setup work, turn the lights off, go home, and wake up to thousands of parts. Not a single machine in their operation is computerized. Automation has been a major part of large scale production for a very long time, most people just don't know it.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Edited by christopera (03/27/19 04:30 PM)

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera]
    #25900521 -

I worked for concrete company’s during the recession when I couldn’t do what I do now . Allot of times it’s easier and more cost effective to have a group of guys dig a hole with hand tools than it is to use an excavator . New elevator  pit in an old high rise is a good example . That  will always require a 90lb jackhammer , shovel , wheelbarrow , service  elavator , and a tough motherfucker who’s all arms and mouth , like me .


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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25900590 -

We have some "robotic" hammers that hold a 90lbs. hammer and let the operator run it via remote control. Production is twice what a man could do. But the machines aren't good a detailing because there isn't any feel and as a result they generally remove too much concrete. So the benefit is only maybe a 30% increase. Factor in the cost of the robot and the cost of maintenance and it's around about the same as a man. We however can do the work slightly quicker so the robot prevails. The same laborer is present though, they make the same wage as if they held the hammer. Our workers comp rates decrease with the robots as well. So we end up with more work not less as our overall costs have decreased slightly. This is true for not just our company but many others. Automation has increased the amount of work we do, the amount of man time ultimately is about the same. This just means that the condition of infrastructure is better.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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