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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
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Labor Unions Suck ASS
    #5907425 - 07/27/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

More a rant then a thread I guess....................

But,

There is this shop near my home that is on strike..er.thats what the workers say anyway...They all no called no showed for fri sat and monday. Then showed up thursday sporting signs.What a joke.They were all fired the day before..Now they are making all kinds of cry baby noise and public bitching.etc etc............

The federal goverment says worker are entilted to time and a half pay over 40 hours.....Guess what they walked off teh job for ?? Not being paid double time on sunday.........So they got fired for it.

I have beeen exposed to my last fucking cry baby union group of cry babies. Stupid fuckers.

unions were good for the time with no labor laws and child abuse labor.etc.............

GET A LIFE YOU UNIONIZED CRY BABIES :mad2:



When will someone push for teh criminalization of the labor unions


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #5907431 - 07/27/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I'm IN a union, and even I think the whole scheme is a bit ridiculous...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5907986 - 07/28/06 04:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

(With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5908144 - 07/28/06 06:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for
> unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no
> excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.

One of my friends just got back from San Fransisco, where he stayed for a couple of months this summer. Apparently, the legal mininum wage over there is $4.50 an hour. He also reports that in order to suppliment this, it is standard practise (verging on mandatory) to tip service workers 20%. He reports that whenever he declined to do so, he was accused of not supporting poorly paid people.

This is entirely annocdotal, so if this is not the state of affairs in San Fransisco, please enlighten me. However, when I heard this, it seemed to me that, at least in that city, unionized labour would of huge benefit to workers and the public.

Certainly, in any case, $4.50 per hour does not seem to me to be a living wage.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: OJK]
    #5908227 - 07/28/06 07:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Doesn't make sense... legal minimum wage in the US is $5.15 with a few exceptions. If somebody is willing to labor, rather than flip burgers at McDonalds, they can easily make $15/hr or more in construction with little to no experience.


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5908257 - 07/28/06 07:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

that is simply not true, especially in areas consumed with mexxers, like my home state.


I was making 11 an hr framing houses, then came the two mexxers who my boss paid 11 an hr to combined.

Guess who lost his job?

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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5908259 - 07/28/06 07:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The labor union can provide a whole lot of securities for those in the union.

Litigation services and wage securities.

They also insure the quality of work, thus providing the employer a with a small degree of assurance against shoddy craftsmanship.

Edited by mack_tasticlies (07/28/06 07:59 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5908599 - 07/28/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> that is simply not true, especially in areas consumed with mexxers, like my home state.

Sorry, I should have realized that not everywhere has the same cost of living.  Not only is it geographical dependent, but also related to the health of the economy.  Still, construction pays more than minimum wage, typically.

> The labor union can provide a whole lot of securities for those in the union.

And yet the union members have to pay for those securities without choice.  Want to work here, you have to be union and you have to pay union fees...

> They also insure the quality of work

That is a joke, yes?  A union can ensure quality of work, but management cannot?  Please...  :rolleyes:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5908663 - 07/28/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Unions do NOT insure the quality of work, its quite the opposite in fact.

Case in point...I work at an International Airport, and have for the last 4 years. Our union there is the Teamsters, one of the biggest in the United States. Management is very hamstrung by the union. Its so difficult for management to fire anyone thats its nigh on impossible. The consequence being that nobody has an incentive to work hard. We have people there who dont give a fuck about their job. They do the minimum amount necessary to get paid, but the company cant fire them, not without a long 1-2 year grievance fight. Its stupid. Those of us who have to work hard to pick up the slack HATE it. If the company could get rid of the dead-weight, productivity would go up by a large margin, I guarantee it.

That said, I also make $17.00 an hour, get 4 weeks paid vacation, and have a full benefits package (Health/Vision/Dental/Drugs) that I dont have to pay a single penny for. And this is for a PART-TIME position that I only work after school. Thats the unions doing too.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5908993 - 07/28/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Unions do provide some job security though. Who's going to fight for you if a company feels like firing you for no reason at all? Least if your in a union you have a chance at your job not being pulled out from under you.

But unions are a dying breed. Companies now days go to great lengths to get rid of them. In my area I've seen shops close their doors for a year just to open back up and hire most of the people back, with no union of course. Even speak the word union in the surrounding factories and you get the boot.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: OJK]
    #5909009 - 07/28/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
One of my friends just got back from San Fransisco, where he stayed for a couple of months this summer. Apparently, the legal mininum wage over there is $4.50 an hour.



That doesn't add up. Either you heard bad information, or he was being ripped off. Minimum wage in California is $6.75, a dollar higher than the national minimum wage.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5909542 - 07/28/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> Who's going to fight for you if a company feels like firing you for no reason at all?

It is not in a companies best interest to fire somebody "for no reason at all". I'm starting to notice a sad trend here, Madtowntripper excluded.

> Companies now days go to great lengths to get rid of them.

One of my engineering management professors was a retired VP from a very large corp. He said they would close down a plant and move before allowing it to go union. He also said that they would not allow existing union plants to have better benefits than non-union plants.

> Even speak the word union in the surrounding factories and you get the boot.

I am pretty sure that would be illegal in the US. Anybody know for certain?

I'm surprised noboody has mentioned organized crime with respect to unions.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5909725 - 07/28/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
(With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.




And who blows the whistle when labor laws get violated?

Should a single worker have to pay a lawyer out of his own pocket and fight the large corporations entire team of expensive lawyers when they try to fire him while he's recovering from an injury caused by his employer?

When I was growing up there were at least 2 times where the only reason my dad was able to keep his job was because the UFCW stood up to albertson's when they knowingly attempted to do things that were illegal.

When he was hurt, they tried to fire him, they tried to deny workman's comp.

When overhead started being a problem (which ironically is likely to have to do with the wages that management was being paid), they tried to fire him and all the other higher-paid employees with seniority in favor of hiring new, cheap employees.

Labor unions are still necessary, because the government is nothing if not incompetent in protecting workers on its own.

I'd have been raised a little homeless boy if not for a union lawyer.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Invisiblerod
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
    #5909746 - 07/28/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I,m Pro Union also, but my last Union job was 1981.
International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers ...

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: rod]
    #5909809 - 07/28/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Seems to me unions are now in existence, just for the hell of it. When I lived in Detriot, I saw many UAW workers get fucked. Here is an interesting story:

http://exparte.powerblogs.com/posts/1139589691.shtml

Dan Alban, Friday February 10, 2006 at 10:41am]
The Appalling Labor Practices of...UNIONS???


This hilarious Detroit News article reveals that unions have been hiring the homeless - at minimum wage and without health care benefits - to picket at non-union job sites. Oh, the humanity! Oh, the hypocrisy!

In Washington, Baltimore, Atlanta and elsewhere in the country, union organizers are scouring shelters and recruiting homeless people to staff their picket lines, paying just above minimum wage and failing to provide health benefits.

The national carpenters' union, which broke from the AFL-CIO four years ago in a bitter dispute over organizing strategies and other issues, is hiring homeless people to stage noisy protests at nonunion construction sites.

"We're giving jobs to people who didn't have jobs, people who in some cases couldn't secure work," said George Eisner, head of the union's mid-Atlantic regional council in Baltimore.

God, I love these quotes. So, um, how exactly is this different from the employees at the non-union construction site that you're protesting? I wonder if these union schmucks realize the extent to which their defense of this practice undermines the whole purpose of unions.

Neil Bernstein, a law professor at Washington University in St. Louis who specializes in labor and employment law, said unions that use such a tactic are guilty of practicing a double standard.

"They're basically doing what they're criticizing the employers for doing — getting the cheapest people to do the job," he said.

What, unions not actually protecting the rights of their workers? Acting hypocritically? Igoring pro-labor ideology when it's inconvenient? I'm shocked, shocked.

"The fact that the people demonstrating were not members of the union doesn't make much difference," Sweeney said. "What matters is that the carpenters working on the building had no health care and no pension."

When it was noted that the homeless pickets also had no benefits, Sweeney responded: "Our hope is that those workers — that all workers — would have health benefits, but that is a bigger issue."

Gee, that's interesting. So all you have to do to make the union happy is HOPE that your workers would have health benefits? You don't have to actually do anything about it as an employer? I'm sure big business will be interested to hear this...

Sweeney expressed the hope that the homeless protesters "may work themselves into a full-time job where they would get benefits."

Yes, exactly! But then that kinda ruins the whole point of having unions, now doesn't it Johnny boy? (Ok, so it actually doesn't undermine the real purpose of having unions - consolidating power for and lining the pockets of union bigwigs & other...ahem...associates, and "progressive" political organization.)

A demonstrator in Washington, Nicey Howards, said the temporary protesters earn $8 an hour — just a dollar above the legal minimum wage in Washington — with no benefits. While she felt the job wasn't ideal, Howards was glad she could earn a little money while looking for something better.

Each week, Howards said, she works 20 hours, the maximum time allowed by the carpenters' union, bringing home $160.

The union organizers allow the hired protesters to take two-minute breaks, Howards said, but dock their pay for the time off.

God, someone needs to start a union for these people to save them from the horribly despotic...um...er...unions that are working them to the bone in sweatshop-like conditions!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: OJK]
    #5910360 - 07/28/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
> (With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for
> unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no
> excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.

One of my friends just got back from San Fransisco, where he stayed for a couple of months this summer. Apparently, the legal mininum wage over there is $4.50 an hour. He also reports that in order to suppliment this, it is standard practise (verging on mandatory) to tip service workers 20%. He reports that whenever he declined to do so, he was accused of not supporting poorly paid people.

This is entirely annocdotal, so if this is not the state of affairs in San Fransisco, please enlighten me. However, when I heard this, it seemed to me that, at least in that city, unionized labour would of huge benefit to workers and the public.

Certainly, in any case, $4.50 per hour does not seem to me to be a living wage.




your friend was probably a bartender or a waiter. jobs like these pay low wages as tips are expected. It is not uncommon to make 4 bucks an hour as a waiter on the clock because you often pull in $150 cash a night in tips.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5910931 - 07/29/06 01:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
(With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.




Labor laws are a joke. What does a multi-million dollar company care about being fined 1500 bucks for breaking labor laws? It's about as much deterrant as fining Ted Bundy 50 cents for each murder.

The only thing that scares them is unions. Which is why they are so desperate to go back 100 years to a time when unions didn't exist and they could treat workers like shit.

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5910961 - 07/29/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It is not in a companies best interest to fire somebody "for no reason at all".




I really don't know where you live, but it must be in fairytale land where everything is rosey and perfect. A company can fire you for any reason at all, or for no apparent reason at all. Of course they will have a reason, but it does not at all have to be the reason they tell you. All they have to say is "we're sorry it's just not working out" or "we're sorry we have eliminated your job" even if such is not the case. With a union in place, a company can fire you and the union can get your job back if they didn't fire you for a damn good reason...in some cases. But like I said, at least with a union you have a CHANCE at getting your job back. Without one there is no protection at all, any fickle reason they have can be plenty cause for firing and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

My last job is a perfect example. Not going to go into details because it is boring and I'd rather not talk about my shitty job  :tongue:  But as you should know, you are not eligible for unemployment if you are fired for a real reason. Yet I was awarded unemployment by the state I live in after being fired. Now why do you suppose they awarded me unemployment if companies don't fire people without a good reason? I was ready to leave that job anyway, but it sure was nice to mooch some unemployment because those bitches fired me for made up bullshit. Which if there had been a union I could have had them fight for my job back. My dad has told me of the union where he worked at, they had got a few different people hired back after they had been fired. So yeah, unions can play a good role even if some people only choose to see the bad.

I'm not saying unions are perfect or anything like that, in fact I think that in some companies they aren't really needed. And they do have their faults, but overall I think they offer the only real job protection in our workforce. It's really a moot point though, as they are dying out and will be gone completely given a few more decades, maybe less.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Alex213]
    #5912227 - 07/29/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
(With reference to US laws and history)  There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed.  With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist.  To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.




Labor laws are a joke. What does a multi-million dollar company care about being fined 1500 bucks for breaking labor laws? It's about as much deterrant as fining Ted Bundy 50 cents for each murder.

The only thing that scares them is unions. Which is why they are so desperate to go back 100 years to a time when unions didn't exist and they could treat workers like shit.




:geordinod:

I'm sure there are plenty of companies that wish they could still get away with hiring Pinkertons to shoot strikers.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
    #5912951 - 07/29/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the problem with unions are the same problems that plague government, corporations, and often other large organizations that swim in money and power. that is not to say that all government, corporations, or unions are inherently bad - I'm sure we can all agree that all of these entities do provide some good to the world despite their shortcomings and abuse.

I think a remedy for corruption and the flight of power away from individuals further from the top is local organizations that work together in decentralized (or confederated) networks - but that's just my opinion.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
    #5913075 - 07/29/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
I'm sure there are plenty of companies that wish they could still get away with hiring Pinkertons to shoot strikers.



I wonder what would happen if Pinkertons unionized.


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5913229 - 07/29/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
(With reference to US laws and history) There was a time and a place for unions before labor laws existed. With the advent of labor laws, there is no excuse for unions to exist. To me, it is government sanctioned extortion.




Thats a sad statement.. The biggest thing I am in support of unions for is the fact that they are politically active. Sure they passed these laws to better protect workers but its not like they are permanent.

Unions are the only ones fighting to keep these laws from being overturned and they work daily on keeping new laws from passing that only serve to support big business and not the workers.

Unions do MUCH more for you and all other non-union members than you know and they do it only with the money given to them by union members. In return they reward us with higher pay, good benefits, job security and yes, better working conditions.


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5913257 - 07/29/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Unions do NOT insure the quality of work, its quite the opposite in fact.

Case in point...I work at an International Airport, and have for the last 4 years. Our union there is the Teamsters, one of the biggest in the United States. Management is very hamstrung by the union. Its so difficult for management to fire anyone thats its nigh on impossible. The consequence being that nobody has an incentive to work hard. We have people there who dont give a fuck about their job. They do the minimum amount necessary to get paid, but the company cant fire them, not without a long 1-2 year grievance fight. Its stupid. Those of us who have to work hard to pick up the slack HATE it. If the company could get rid of the dead-weight, productivity would go up by a large margin, I guarantee it.




Then its up to you to push them out. We get the same thing all the time.. While its not too hard to get fried while in my union, we do have some slackers who float around from store to store. We have a ton of work to do every day and if someone isnt doing their part to get it done we kick their ass.

Not literally but we will harass them into either working harder or if they dont like it, leave.

How can you say that your union doesnt improve your working conditions? Have you ever read your union contract with the employer? In it they outline everything the employer is responsible for. If they do not comply then its up to you to tell your steward and then he will tell the union and things will get taken care of..

Im sure that theirs allot that they do for you that you dont even know about. You should start by reading your contract.. Ive read mine three times now.. Then again, Im the steward.


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GabbaDj

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Edited by GabbaDj (07/29/06 09:41 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Vvellum]
    #5913310 - 07/29/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
the problem with unions are the same problems that plague government, corporations, and often other large organizations that swim in money and power. that is not to say that all government, corporations, or unions are inherently bad - I'm sure we can all agree that all of these entities do provide some good to the world despite their shortcomings and abuse.

I think a remedy for corruption and the flight of power away from individuals further from the top is local organizations that work together in decentralized (or confederated) networks - but that's just my opinion.




It is true that unions have had many of the same corruption problems inherent in businesses. I'm sure most people are aware of the numerous instances where the mafia had a hand in union affairs, or when union officials were paid off.

They're definitely not perfect organizations. If I ever came across a perfect group of people, I'd have to assume I was dead, because there are no perfect organizations of people on this earth.

However, despite instances of unions having rotten cores, they are a necessary component of maintaining fair labor practices. Unfortunately the only entity that can hold its own against a large powerful corporation is an equally large and powerful union. Smaller groups of people are easy to crush, bribe, intimidate, and generally destroy.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Posts: 19,681
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Konnrade]
    #5913420 - 07/29/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


However, despite instances of unions having rotten cores, they are a necessary component of maintaining fair labor practices. Unfortunately the only entity that can hold its own against a large powerful corporation is an equally large and powerful union. Smaller groups of people are easy to crush, bribe, intimidate, and generally destroy.




Kudos.. Yah, they have caught most every leader in my union doing wrong and illegal stuff, some are gone but many stay. Thing is, while they blow millions on fancy outings and bad investments that make only them millions they do also spend millions more to fight big business and shareholders and CEOs and other corporate executives from stepping on the toes of the employees that they count on to bring in the money they "make".


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GabbaDj

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Offlineunbeliever
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #5916083 - 07/30/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't really have anything to add with regards to union vs non-union, the economy, management vs workers and everything else discussed so far in this thread. However, I do feel weird/uncomfortable with the union culture. I'm in the IBEW and while they do provide a ton of good benefits, job security and job finding services.. I don't like the Borg like mentality that comes across sometimes. Too often politics are brought into it. Who and what you vote for, what your political party affiliation is and a general "in your face" approach to it all. Hell in the union hall, in a back waiting room granted, there was a wall with various news clippings, signs etc on it and one of them just said "BUSH" but the S has been replaced by a swastika. Now don't get me wrong, I despise bush.. but I found that sign to be in poor taste, especially in a union hall which should try to remain at least politically civil.

Still, I pay my dues and enjoy the benefits. I just don't participate in rallies, buy t-shirts and other merchandise or whatever. It just totally goes against my grain to give that kind of blind allegiance. It's why I don't really consider myself a patriot or nationalist either. I approve of my union and country for the good they do but in no way give them a free pass on the bad shit. :shrug:

</ramble>


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Alex213]
    #5917725 - 07/31/06 04:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Labor laws are a joke. What does a multi-million dollar company care about being fined 1500 bucks for breaking labor laws? It's about as much deterrant as fining Ted Bundy 50 cents for each murder.




Then enforce the laws or boycott the companies and work someplace else. Germany just did it with Walmart and didn't need any government help, be it in the form of your supposed worthless labor laws or my supposed worthless unions.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Loc: North America
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5918569 - 07/31/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You can't enforce the law on people who are above it.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5919272 - 07/31/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> You can't enforce the law on people who are above it.

I feel like I am debating Rush Limbaugh here... not you in particular, but the way this thread goes around and around the point.  For example, unions are protected by the law.  If they weren't, they would be powerless.  So if management was really above the law, as you claim, unions wouldn't be effective.  :rolleyes:


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 9 days
Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5920894 - 08/01/06 02:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Not all management are above the law. But it's illegal to cross the boarder in this country without proper documents, yet people do it all the time and the companies that employ them are not held accountable. That's just one example of big business being above the law. It is absolutely impossible to enforce the law on these people when it comes to some things.

What happens if big business does get caught in some illegal labor practice? They can always close shop, move the company overseas and run things how they want without loosing any of their market share, thus no consequences.

Lets not forget about the lobbying power of corporate america in our govt, the small time employee interests are virtually buried under the rug as far as what laws are passed. At least with unions in washington lobbying for them there is someone, who else is going to lobby for them? Call your congressmen right? Lot of good that will do with no organization and funding.

While they are not above the law when it comes to everything, you cannot deny there are some things they are absolutely above the law on. And with millions of dollars for defense any prosecutor will have the struggle of his life to get glue to stick on these people.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Labor Unions Suck ASS [Re: Seuss]
    #5921354 - 08/01/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> You can't enforce the law on people who are above it.

I feel like I am debating Rush Limbaugh here... not you in particular, but the way this thread goes around and around the point.  For example, unions are protected by the law.  If they weren't, they would be powerless.  So if management was really above the law, as you claim, unions wouldn't be effective.  :rolleyes:




I think you're missing the point. It's not a matter of being above the law as the law being meaningless. Fining a multi-billion dollar company 500 bucks for breaking labor laws doesn't mean anything. Compare that to the money lost when a union walks every damn worker in the place out the door for a week and you understand why companies prefer "labor laws" over unions every time.

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