christopera said:

qman said:

christopera said:

So your advocating a population with less education and training? Immigrants for example?

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No, maybe maintain the same level, I'm advocating what Bernie does on immigration and globalization to fix wealth and income inequality.

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Your platform is a sieve, full of holes and dripping dishonesty.

Populations unanimously gain with education, economic benefit is not the only measuring stick.

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christopera said:

qman said:

christopera said:

So your advocating a population with less education and training? Immigrants for example?

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No, maybe maintain the same level, I'm advocating what Bernie does on immigration and globalization to fix wealth and income inequality.

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Your platform is a sieve, full of holes and dripping dishonesty.

Populations unanimously gain with education, economic benefit is not the only measuring stick.

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ballsalsa said:

literally anything that helps to hone critical thinking skills.  maybe some mandatory history and basic civics so people have a rudimentary understanding of why and how the government actually functions.
some "other ways" that i can think of off the top of my head?
1) no trump
2) a higher percentage of subtle or clever insults hurled in traffic
3) a bunch more stuff and you know it!

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qman said:

Brian Jones said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

Education is a big part of it, yes.

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No it isn't. The Establishment loves to blame labor for labor's problems.

The conservatives blame high schools and colleges for not teaching the proper skills, they blame drug usage and many other factors for the inequality.

Liberals also blame the economic inequality in the access to education. If only everything were more equal in education then the US peasants would have more economic prosperity. It's all bullshit.

The reason why the bottom 80% has experienced declining real wages for the past 40 years is because of globalization and immigration!!  We have more educated citizens than ever before, that's NOT the issue.

Do you want to fix some of the inequality?  Reverse the tax cuts and give the same amount of tax reduction to the payroll taxes. That has NOTHING to do with the quality or access to public education.

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There are some sources that support your idea that immigration caused wage decline. The majority of them say you're wrong. We all just flock to whatever "evidence" supports our preconceived notions.

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Immigration not only dilutes wages, it's one of the key factors for creating the massive wealth inequality.

Why do you think The Elite are pro-immigration?  Trust me, they're not liberals that embrace  cultural diversity. It's always about THE MONEY!!!!

My Polish ancestors came to the US and instantly worked for 1/2 the wage of the existing natives, that's why they were invited in the first place.  This is such basic economic commonsense, it's been happening since humans have existed. Of course, The Elite are always going to deny it and have people like yourself buying into their propaganda.

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qman said:

How is more education going to fix a structurally damaged labor market due to globalization and immigration?  It isn't. 

My brother has a masters degree in his medical field. Twenty five years ago, a person with a HS degree was trained for his current position.

Yes, employers that don't have an excess pool of labor educate their workers for their own benefit, but it also benefited the worker as well.

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christopera said:

qman said:

How is more education going to fix a structurally damaged labor market due to globalization and immigration?  It isn't. 

My brother has a masters degree in his medical field. Twenty five years ago, a person with a HS degree was trained for his current position.

Yes, employers that don't have an excess pool of labor educate their workers for their own benefit, but it also benefited the worker as well.

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That's not the point, the point is that education is good for people and good for populations. Well educated populations tend to make better decisions in the voting booth and that leads to better policy making. Conservatives love dumb voting populations and as we know they control the poorest and least educated states.

That said, your stances are awfully hypocritical. "Why would we want poor uneducated immigrants here? They are a drain on our economy and only benefit the wealthy." vs. "We don't need education for our populous but economic nationalism benefits us all." You'd be hard pressed to tow the line for the elite any harder.

If you want economic prosperity for the citizens of this country education absolutely helps. You don't have to be so myopic as to think that education only directly benefits job opportunity.

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Brian Jones said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

Education is a big part of it, yes.

---

No it isn't. The Establishment loves to blame labor for labor's problems.

The conservatives blame high schools and colleges for not teaching the proper skills, they blame drug usage and many other factors for the inequality.

Liberals also blame the economic inequality in the access to education. If only everything were more equal in education then the US peasants would have more economic prosperity. It's all bullshit.

The reason why the bottom 80% has experienced declining real wages for the past 40 years is because of globalization and immigration!!  We have more educated citizens than ever before, that's NOT the issue.

Do you want to fix some of the inequality?  Reverse the tax cuts and give the same amount of tax reduction to the payroll taxes. That has NOTHING to do with the quality or access to public education.

---

There are some sources that support your idea that immigration caused wage decline. The majority of them say you're wrong. We all just flock to whatever "evidence" supports our preconceived notions.

---

Immigration not only dilutes wages, it's one of the key factors for creating the massive wealth inequality.

Why do you think The Elite are pro-immigration?  Trust me, they're not liberals that embrace  cultural diversity. It's always about THE MONEY!!!!

My Polish ancestors came to the US and instantly worked for 1/2 the wage of the existing natives, that's why they were invited in the first place.  This is such basic economic commonsense, it's been happening since humans have existed. Of course, The Elite are always going to deny it and have people like yourself buying into their propaganda.

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If it was such economic common sense, most economists would not be saying immigration doesn't suppress wages.

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Immigration produces economic growth in many cases, but who benefits?  The results are very obvious, The Elite benefit at the expense of the working class.

I have been following the financial MSM for over 30 years, guess what they do to convince the peasants that the current economic policies are for their benefit, when in fact it isn't?  They spew economic propaganda!!!!  Why are you so gullible?

You do realize labor unions were always anti-immigration?  I guess they were just being racist against other immigrants just like THEMSELVES!!! 

qman said:

Stop with the strawman, I never stated anything like "we don't need education for our populous". I suggested more investment into education isn't going to fix the current massive inequality in wealth and income in the US today. That's a big difference.

You do realize education is an investment?  And as a result it must produce an return on that investment?  Is spending 100k on a 4 year degree and then making 35k per year a good investment for that person?  Not likely, with a 9-12% rate of interest on the loans, the debt is never likely to be paid back.

"tow the line for the elite"

Quite the opposite, did you read my earlier post?  Conservatives blame the quality of the existing education and want to bring in qualified immigrants as a result.

Liberals blame the amount of resources committed to education for the lack of opportunities relative to the past, BOTH blame labor for problems in the labor market.

The Elite blame labor for labor's problems instead of taking blame for structurally destroying opportunity with globalization and immigration. I'm doing the opposite, I'm calling out The Elite, you're making excuses for them.

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Brian Jones said:

I support heavily subsidized public education but not free. It should be affordable enough to work your way through school, without much borrowing. I think free college would create malingering. When my brother got back from Viet Nam he went to a local community college and in his words, played cards there until the GI bill ran out. As an involuntary war veteran he deserved this chance to fuck around for awhile, but I think free education would create a lot of fucking around. Paying for part of it would definitely reduce the number of nonmotivated students IMO.

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christopera said:

qman said:

Stop with the strawman, I never stated anything like "we don't need education for our populous". I suggested more investment into education isn't going to fix the current massive inequality in wealth and income in the US today. That's a big difference.

You do realize education is an investment?  And as a result it must produce an return on that investment?  Is spending 100k on a 4 year degree and then making 35k per year a good investment for that person?  Not likely, with a 9-12% rate of interest on the loans, the debt is never likely to be paid back.

"tow the line for the elite"

Quite the opposite, did you read my earlier post?  Conservatives blame the quality of the existing education and want to bring in qualified immigrants as a result.

Liberals blame the amount of resources committed to education for the lack of opportunities relative to the past, BOTH blame labor for problems in the labor market.

The Elite blame labor for labor's problems instead of taking blame for structurally destroying opportunity with globalization and immigration. I'm doing the opposite, I'm calling out The Elite, you're making excuses for them.

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Nah, you said "How is more education going to fix a structurally damaged labor market due to globalization and immigration?  It isn't. "

I responded because you specifically said "more." I never once said that you said "we don't need educations for our populous."

When I said ""We don't need education for our populous but economic nationalism benefits us all."" as a rhetorical response to yours I was obviously referring to increases in education because that's the topic we were discussing as indicated above.

That is literally you building a straw man about me making a straw man. For fucks sake...

And, as usual, crickets as far as my points. Just you rambling on about the elite and labor markets and investments. Let's ignore that well educated populations tend to have stronger economies, better paying jobs, better working conditions, more prosperity for the state, etc..

Anyways, Bernie gets this, and that's why his policies are as such. I look forward to the debates.

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Brian Jones said:

I support heavily subsidized public education but not free. It should be affordable enough to work your way through school, without much borrowing. I think free college would create malingering. When my brother got back from Viet Nam he went to a local community college and in his words, played cards there until the GI bill ran out. As an involuntary war veteran he deserved this chance to fuck around for awhile, but I think free education would create a lot of fucking around. Paying for part of it would definitely reduce the number of nonmotivated students IMO.

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Shenmue said:

Why should the middle class have to pay for everyone's college?

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They shouldn't, and no one, especially Bernie, is proposing that the middle class pay.