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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov] * 3
    #26034957 -

Antigov said:
It’s proven that raising the min wage lays off poor people, mom and pop places go out of business and corporate stores replace min wage workers with automation, kiosks etc.


when was this proven?

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov] * 1
    #26035008 -

Antigov said:
Bernie Sanders encourages the sheeples to protest for $15 min wage. It’s proven that raising the min wage lays off poor people, mom and pop places go out of business and corporate stores replace min wage workers with automation, kiosks etc. Why would you encourage people to protest themselves out of their jobs, help the corporations replace jobs with automation and put small businesses out of business. A millionaire socialist with a summer home in the Hamptons that preaches about income equality. I don’t trust ole Bernie.


It depends on what level the minimum wage is set at and it also depends on the condition of the labor market.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26035031 -

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2018/09/28/how-higher-minimum-wages-impact-employment/

http://fortune.com/2015/07/30/1223726-15-hour-minimum-wage-workers-fast-food/


--------------------

Edited by Antigov (06/05/19 06:07 PM)

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: qman]
    #26035036 -

can you expand on what you mean by that?

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #26035046 -

He's not going to win guy's. The lower class and college students love him but he's to extreme for the middle class. Hard working people don't want to pay for other people's shit..

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov]
    #26035052 -

Antigov said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2018/09/28/how-higher-minimum-wages-impact-employment/

http://fortune.com/2015/07/30/1223726-15-hour-minimum-wage-workers-fast-food/


an interesting study to throw on the stack of interesting studies.  I suppose that If their model bears out over the next 7 or 8 years that would be fairly convincing.  I mean, they are trying to sell me on the idea that no matter how good the data looks, i have to wait 10 years to see the real damage, so what can I do but wait 10 years?  the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Shenmue]
    #26035063 -

dipshits don't like to read or listen, either.  dumbfucks like to repeat retarded slogans like "but how are you gonna pay for that?"

and some of them are probably good people.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26035069 -

You can say the same about “global warming” also LOL


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov] * 1
    #26035078 -

ouch, sick burn.  you got me good that time.

but sure, if most of the climate change data were pointing the other way, your analogy would make sense.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov] * 2
    #26035196 -

Antigov said:
You can say the same about “global warming” also LOL



Curious.  You do or do not believe the earth's climate is warming?

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov] * 3
    #26035549 -

Antigov said:
ballsalsa said:
Antigov said:
It’s proven that raising the min wage lays off poor people, mom and pop places go out of business and corporate stores replace min wage workers with automation, kiosks etc.


when was this proven?


https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2018/09/28/how-higher-minimum-wages-impact-employment/


That report doesn't prove anything.  That's a predictive model based on assumptions that are likely not correct.  Why do I say "likely not correct"?  Because we already have countless empirical studies (real world data - not predictive models) showing this isn't the case:

Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Empirical evidence shows that raising the minimum wage will NOT raise unemployment.  People here have repeatedly provided evidence of real world data showing short term jobs are NOT significantly reduced by minimum wage increases, and they are not reduced at all in the long term.

The Most Rigorous Research Shows Minimum Wage Increases Do Not Reduce Employment
Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?
Study Showed Raising The Minimum Wage Did NOT Raise Unemployment

Even zappaisgod was kind enough to show evidence that a massive 40% increase in minimum wage will only have a 0.3% short term impact on employment:
Quote:
CBO: Raise the min wage by 40%, total employment falls by 0.3%. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44995-MinimumWage.pdf …


This is because most employees today are paid FAR less than they're worth to a company.


Just so you know, Forbes is one of the worst sources for information, and I don't recall them ever posting an economics article that wasn't easily debunked.

Antigov said:
http://fortune.com/2015/07/30/1223726-15-hour-minimum-wage-workers-fast-food/


That Fortune article isn't based on empirical evidence either.  Just the author's assumption that higher wages would hurt jobs.




Antigov said:
A millionaire socialist with a summer home in the Hamptons that preaches about income equality. I don’t trust ole Bernie.


He doesn't own a summer home in the Hamptons.  :facepalm:

He bought a vacation home for about $600,000, which is less than half of what my Bay Area house is worth.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Shenmue] * 2
    #26035563 -

Shenmue said:
He's not going to win guy's. The lower class and college students love him but he's to extreme for the middle class. Hard working people don't want to pay for other people's shit..


Hard working people would come out ahead under Bernie.  It's the millionaires and billionaires that would end up paying for "other people's shit".

Now you know.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Shenmue] * 2
    #26035564 -

Shenmue said:
He's not going to win guy's. The lower class and college students love him but he's to extreme for the middle class. Hard working people don't want to pay for other people's shit..


Yeah you're right :protest:

People who work don't want their money to go towards roads and hospitals and schools and healthcare and education. We want it to go to war!!!! WE WANT TANKS!!! F PAYING FOR OTHER PEOPLES SHIT!! BLOW SHIIT UPPPP!!!!

MURICA!


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26035583 -

And for those against a $15 minimum wage citing a net loss of income, 6 cities so far who've implemented a minimum wage say it works.

Quote:
Numerous cities across the U.S. are in the process of raising local minimum wages, some to as high as
$15 per hour. These policies have already attained minimum wage levels that are well above previous
peaks in the U.S. We study the effects of the new polices on earnings and employment by examining
the effects of policy changes in six large cities—Chicago, the District of Columbia, Oakland, San
Francisco, San Jose and Seattle—that resulted in a total of thirteen minimum wage increases during
the period we study. These cities comprise the earliest movers in the new wave of higher local
minimum wage policies.

We find that minimum wages in the $10 to $13 range have statistically significant positive effects on
earnings. At the individual city level, our estimated wage increases are proportional to the size of the
minimum wage increases. On average across the six cities, we find that a 10 percent increase in the
minimum wage increases earnings in the food services industry between 1.3 and 2.5 percent. This
result is very similar to the estimates in previous studies of minimum wage levels up to $10.

In addition to our findings of positive effects on earnings, we do not detect negative significant
employment effects in any of the individual cities, or when pooling them together. Our results from
the event study and synthetic control approaches are remarkably similar. They are also consistent with
the consensus of estimates in previous studies of restaurant workers and with studies of minimum
wage policies with similar minimum wage to median wage ratios. However, our pooled employment
confidence intervals are somewhat broader than in previous studies. This imprecision may result from
the limited number of events in our study compared to studies of state and federal increases.

Our findings suggest that the low-wage community as a whole clearly benefited from minimum wage
policies in the $10 to $13 range, particularly if labor-labor substitution effects are minimal. Even if
there are negative effects on employment, the low-wage community still can gain more from pay
increases than it might lose from any employment losses.

http://irle.berkeley.edu/files/2018/09/The-New-Wave-of-Local-Minimum-Wage-Policies.pdf



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: sudly]
    #26035588 -

Exactly.  Empirical evidence (real world evidence) shows it's a good thing.  Only theory says it doesn't work.

The question for people then is which do you trust most?  Real world evidence or theory?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26035611 -

sudly said:
Shenmue said:
He's not going to win guy's. The lower class and college students love him but he's to extreme for the middle class. Hard working people don't want to pay for other people's shit..


Yeah you're right :protest:

People who work don't want their money to go towards roads and hospitals and schools and healthcare and education. We want it to go to war!!!! WE WANT TANKS!!! F PAYING FOR OTHER PEOPLES SHIT!! BLOW SHIIT UPPPP!!!!

MURICA!




--------------------

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: sh4d0ws] * 1
    #26035649 -

Buttigieg...posterity.



--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Shenmue]
    #26035840 -

Shenmue said:
He's not going to win guy's. The lower class and college students love him but he's to extreme for the middle class. Hard working people don't want to pay for other people's shit..


Most Americans are in favor of "medicare for all".

If you don't like socialism, you can only blame capitalists for screwing their workers out of affordable health insurance or any coverage at all.

I don't want to depend on him, but at this stage I wouldn't even be surprised if Joe Biden jumps on the medicare for all bandwagon.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Antigov] * 2
    #26035889 -

Antigov said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2018/09/28/how-higher-minimum-wages-impact-employment/

http://fortune.com/2015/07/30/1223726-15-hour-minimum-wage-workers-fast-food/


Two magazines run by, and for, rich capitalists.

I can’t imagine why they’d be against raising wages.


Let’s ask Exxon what we should do about fossil fuels.


--------------------

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26035891 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Exactly.  Empirical evidence (real world evidence) shows it's a good thing.  Only theory says it doesn't work.

The question for people then is which do you trust most?  Real world evidence or theory?


Taking ruling class conjecture (that flies in the face of facts) as gospel is Econ 101.


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