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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25909269 -

Looks like street gang vandalism to me.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25909408 -

Bernie’s a member of the Rollin 70s


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25913035 -

It's not just about muddying the waters, he's showing that there's more nuance than we're commonly lead to believe. It is a very complicated topic and everyone is claiming to have the answers. The mechanics seem simple enough: keeping all things equal, adding CO2 raises temperature.

How the interactions manifest on a global scale over a long timeline is anybody's guess though. So when you see public figures going out there claiming "the world will end in 12 years" you have to think "maybe a bit more nuance isn't so bad".

I wouldn't call it a red herring, he's just adding additional context. That is useful information that is difficult to find. Most of the information that's easily accessible is the day-after-tomorrow WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE shit.

That said I do appreciate you engaging with the video. You were exactly right about what he was saying. I know how difficult it can be engaging with a source that you know has a different world view. Especially if you don't think you're going to like what they're saying.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: vault123] * 1
    #25913229 -

Dismissing scientists’ calls for immediate reduction in carbon emissions before a 12 year tipping point as “the world is gonna end in 12 years” fearmongering is itself a red herring imo.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: vault123] * 1
    #25913268 -

vault123 said:
everyone is claiming to have the answers.


I don't think I've ever seen anyone in the scientific community claim to have the answers.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25913272 -

Quote:
wouldn't call it a red herring, he's just adding additional context. That is useful information that is difficult to find. Most of the information that's easily accessible is the day-after-tomorrow WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE shit.


I’ve never heard even the most ardent global warming activist say we’re all going to die. You’re just making that up.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25913340 -

The Ecstatic said:
Dismissing scientists’ calls for immediate reduction in carbon emissions before a 12 year tipping point as “the world is gonna end in 12 years” fearmongering is itself a red herring imo.


I completely agree. That is fear mongering to the Nth degree.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25913354 -

koods said:
Quote:
wouldn't call it a red herring, he's just adding additional context. That is useful information that is difficult to find. Most of the information that's easily accessible is the day-after-tomorrow WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE shit.


I’ve never heard even the most ardent global warming activist say we’re all going to die. You’re just making that up.


What exactly does "the world is going to end in 12 years" sound like to you? to me it sounds like someone is claiming "we're all going to die". If you have a different interpretation of that I'm curious how you came to it.



I haven't heard Bernie make that claim yet, but he seems pretty cozy with AOC.



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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

Edited by vault123 (04/03/19 10:35 AM)

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25913364 -

Enlil said:
vault123 said:
everyone is claiming to have the answers.


I don't think I've ever seen anyone in the scientific community claim to have the answers.


In the scientific community no. There are a few exceptions, but no real scientist would claim to have all the answers. Considering the nature of science you never "prove" anything, all you can do is reject the null.

In the political arena however, I know at least two public figures who claim to know when the world is going to end. 1. is AOC telling us we've got 12 years to live. Last I checked the other is Robert Francis O'Rourke jumping on the 12 years till the world ends wagon.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25913385 -

The Ecstatic said:
“The mobility of global peoples has vastly increased due to the invention of the steam engine, so can everyone shut the hell up about the transatlantic slave trade?”

Wow what a genius. Can’t wait for his next ted talk.


This is text book cognitive dissonance. I'm sure you're much more intelligent than a published Harvard Professor. Reductio ad absurdum.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: vault123] * 4
    #25913460 -

Will Happer is one very smart scientist who disagrees with the vast majority of other very smart scientists.

Problems I have with his dismissal of climate science:

-He criticises the methodology. But he doesn't propose a better one.

-He makes it look like the scientists who work on climate just put a simple equation into a computer to get the answer they want. If I was one of those scientists I would be insulted.

Did tens of thousands of scientists go through all of the trouble and expense of earning Ph.D's in the sciences just so they could be lazy scammers?

That doesn't seem plausible to me. It's gonna take more than a cartoon to convince me that these scientist aren't doing good work, finding more data points every day , and improving the climate models, which are the best tools we have.

-He implies that the predictions made using models are wrong.

In fact the 1967 paper 'Thermal equilibrium of the atmosphere with a given distribution of relative humidity' by Manabe and Wetherald predicted warming in relation to rising atmospheric CO2 levels. Those predictions are pretty close to actual warming in the 50 years since.


This was a highly influencial paper in the world of climate research.

So todays climate science comes from 50 years of improving on science that was pretty good 50 years ago.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/climategraphs.wordpress.com/2017/11/06/evaluating-the-prediction-of-manabe-and-wetherald-1967/amp/


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

Edited by Thundermuscle75 (04/03/19 11:28 AM)

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #25914149 -



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¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: twighead]
    #25914358 -

twighead said:



I don't think you understand the whole correlation/causation thing.

Science requires correlation to help prove causation.  If you say x causes y, then you'd better be able to show a correlation.

But if you just so happen to find two unrelated things that appear to be correlated, that does not prove that one causes the other.

Get it?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25914391 -

In other Bernie News,
Bernie's bernin up PredictIt, topping the market among the Democrat primary candidates.
There is a 3 way tie for second, of which all prices are implausibly inflated.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #25914416 -

Q1 FEC filings are in and, predictably, Bernie is crushing the competition.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/02/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-fundraising-1248075

In the 6 weeks between his mid February announcement and the end of March, Sanders raised $18 million from almost 900,000 donations of 535,000 different donors, the average contribution was $20. In addition to this haul, Bernie has another $12M on hand from previous campaign funds, so Bernie has roughly $30M in hand. 88% of those 535,000 donors gave $200 or less, 99% $100 or less, meaning the Sanders grassroots donor base won’t max our anytime soon, meaning Bernie will be in the race till the end. Other candidates’ funds may dry up by Super Tuesday.

20% of Sanders donors are NEW donors, which is huge. 100,000 donations came from independents, another 20,000 from registered Republicans. So we can toss that “being progressive alienates potential purple voters” myth out the window again.


For comparison:


Kamala Harris raised $12M
Pete Buttigieg $7M
Andrew Yang $1.5M
Beto O’Rourke $9.4M
Neither has Warren, Gabbard, Booker, Gillibrand, etc etc etc to the best of my knowledge. No candidate has more contributions, contributors, or a lower average donation amount than Sanders.

Bernie’s only real contender at this point in the primary race is someone who isn’t even in the primary race (yet): Joe Biden. Joe obviously doesn’t have Q1 numbers, although he is known to be a relatively bad campaigner and fundraiser, but he leads Sanders in most polls by 2-10%. Fondling scandal notwithstanding, Biden’s early numbers are a reflection of name recognition and affinity for the days of Obama more than they are about Biden’s record. And once the debates start, that record will have a spotlight on it as the hangers on and 2nd tier candidates try to weaken the easiest and biggest target in the stage. I really don’t see Biden’s numbers going anywhere but down, saving a mass drop out of other candidates. However, if Biden decides not to run (it’s like 95% that he will run) most polling shows at least half of his base choose Sanders as their 2nd option, putting Bernie in a very good position going into the race.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25914506 -

Oh I'm not against his data, I just wanted to post a chart of two things correlated :lol:

I'm an environMENTAList

And it's not exactly a tenuous issue for me - we should be vigorously moving towards emissions reductions & sustainability regardless of our perceived effect on the environment - it's a no brainer.


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¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: twighead] * 2
    #25917006 -

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/o-rourke-raises-9-4-million-18-days-faster-pace-n990531

NBC falsely reporting the Beto is raising money faster.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: christopera]
    #25917239 -

Bernie raised more in a week than Beto did in 18 days but ok nbc, go off


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #25917931 -

I don't even know who Beto is.

Besides his other advantages, I think one major thing going for Bernie compared to the other progressives will be his ability to avoid the anti-PC sentiment in a lot of the population. When asked if he was for reparations he said Nope, I'm for fair treatment of everyone.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25918060 -

Beto can suck my left toe


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¿Check out some art m8?


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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