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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888690 -

I lurk around on one of the more popular nut job wacko gun sites and there are a fair amount of NZ folks on there (who had to use VPN's to log in because their country banned the site from the internet for a short time) and there aren't many of them that are going to turn in their guns.

One guy had a higher class license or whatever for his rifle which apparently means no restrictions on magazine capacity or functionality of it but it is registered and he's pretty sure he'll have to turn it in.

I think he's going to strip it completely and just turn in the stripped lower receiver.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888701 -

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24766621#24766621
here's another thread covering the same material.  you were there.
I think I cover australia, the u.s., and some euro countries in this one.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: mycosis]
    #25888714 -

mycosis said:
I lurk around on one of the more popular nut job wacko gun sites and there are a fair amount of NZ folks on there (who had to use VPN's to log in because their country banned the site from the internet for a short time) and there aren't many of them that are going to turn in their guns.

One guy had a higher class license or whatever for his rifle which apparently means no restrictions on magazine capacity or functionality of it but it is registered and he's pretty sure he'll have to turn it in.

I think he's going to strip it completely and just turn in the stripped lower receiver.


The same types said the same things here, still the end result was.... A reduction in guns leading to a reduction in gun crime.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888720 -

Australia has a unique way of dealing with things. Illegal immigration for example. They've pretty much stopped that too.
Every few years a boat load shows up and they throw them onto a prison island.


:cookiemonster:

https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/firearms-hand-in

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888726 -

ballsalsa said:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24766621#24766621
here's another thread covering the same material.  you were there.
I think I cover australia, the u.s., and some euro countries in this one.


Yep, I was.

pineninja said:
Statement of fact: There was a mass murder involving a Semi automatic.

Statement of fact: The government of the time introduced tougher gun laws.

Question : Will this action result in less Gun crime ?


Sometimes we get tired when our point becomes moot.


You asked for it pretty plain and simple....so what's your answer?


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: mycosis]
    #25888728 -

mycosis said:
Australia has a unique way of dealing with things. Illegal immigration for example. They've pretty much stopped that too.
Every few years a boat load shows up and they throw them onto a prison island.


:cookiemonster:

https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/firearms-hand-in


You wont find me defending our immigration policy....better pick another deflection.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #25888738 -

mycosis said:
I lurk around on one of the more popular nut job wacko gun sites and there are a fair amount of NZ folks on there (who had to use VPN's to log in because their country banned the site from the internet for a short time) and there aren't many of them that are going to turn in their guns.
M.


Law abiding gun owners :lol:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: koods]
    #25888755 -

There are probably zero law abiding gun owners on this site.

Anyone from the Shroomery that has filled out a 4473 has probably lied on it.

My uncle is probably the most far left person I know and he considers himself a law abiding gun owner but he and his wife both make straw purchases for both of my nephews and I'm sure he lied on his 4473 because he's also one of the biggest potheads I know. He's one of those people that wants more gun laws but can't even follow the ones we've got.

We got into a short argument via text the other day and he was throwing all this stuff at me about drinking the NRA coolaid and whatnot (which I don't consider myself some kind of gun nut) and I reminded him that he's got way more firearms than I do and not only that but he has an assault rifle.

He got all indignant about not owning an assault rifle and even if he did he's not scared to turn it in.

Then I reminded him about the US Military surplus M1 he keeps under his bed. :lol:

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888784 -

pineninja said:
mycosis said:
Australia has a unique way of dealing with things. Illegal immigration for example. They've pretty much stopped that too.
Every few years a boat load shows up and they throw them onto a prison island.


:cookiemonster:

https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/firearms-hand-in


You wont find me defending our immigration policy....better pick another deflection.


There are some freaking hilarious screenshots of people spamming that NZ Surrender form with stupid submissions.

They're going to have to block USA IP addresses from making submittals. :lol:

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888797 -

pineninja said:
ballsalsa said:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24766621#24766621
here's another thread covering the same material.  you were there.
I think I cover australia, the u.s., and some euro countries in this one.


Yep, I was.

pineninja said:
Statement of fact: There was a mass murder involving a Semi automatic.

Statement of fact: The government of the time introduced tougher gun laws.

Question : Will this action result in less Gun crime ?


Sometimes we get tired when our point becomes moot.


You asked for it pretty plain and simple....so what's your answer?


My answer to your question is: Of course, certainly to some degree or another.  Fewer guns should logically lead to fewer gun crimes, but will that actually make me safer to any noticeable degree?  I don't know.  Will the exchange be worth it?  I haven't seen evidence to bear that hypothesis out yet.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #25888827 -

I’m all for gun rights, but I don’t think it’s even disputable that stricter gun regulations reduce gun crime.

Look to New Zealand’s neighbor, Australia: After the Port Arthur massacre, Australia has a massive gun buy back program and severely restricted guns. They haven’t had a mass shooting since then, and that was 1996. Imagine how many mass shootings the US has had  in the past 23 years.


--------------------

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #25888832 -

Thanks for your answer.

"Fewer guns should logically lead to fewer gun crimes, but will that actually make me safer to any noticeable degree?"

Well I certainly feel safer in a bar where there is no guns...id imagine you would too.

"I don't know.  Will the exchange be worth it?  I haven't seen evidence to bear that hypothesis out yet. "

The evidence is already out there we are past the thought experiment and hypothosis stage.

No more mass shootings since.
Id say thats worth it.

We certainly had a reduction in gun crime.
We also had a drop in total homicides.

Just because they cannot directly attribute the drop in homicides too the gun restrictions doesnt mean it was'nt part of it.


Ive never seen any proof or statistics to say that reducing guns in a populace makes people more unsafe.....and im not going down the armed populace against a tyrant arguement.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888848 -

25888888 is coming up guys.

Did i get it?


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25888881 -

But mass shootings aren't really a significant issue.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: Enlil]
    #25888897 -

It's a fucking huge problem in NZ though! They had another one in 1997!

They're going to nip it in the bud!

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25888898 -

I didn't dispute it.  I simply disagree as to the degree of efficacy.  The U.S. saw similar rates of homicide rate decline during the same period post Port Arthur -2015 or whenever the numbers were at the last time i bothered with this discussion.  This despite wavering firearms restriction policy.  Furthermore, it isn't as if they had a ton of mass shootings before 1996 anyway.  That year was the highest per capita homicide rate they've seen in modern times.  Even starting from that point, the statistical difference is negligible in terms of your likelihood of being murdered.  The big change is that the odds that your murder killed you with a firearm fell from 30 something percent to 13 percent or so.  I don't see that as a game changer except in that the public is disarmed.  People can express the numbers as percentages to make them sound scary "XXX%!" but let's be real, 2 or 4.5 per 100,000 isn't a big difference and both are at or near historic all-time worldwide lows.  Is it likely that NZ will enact much more effective reforms than australia that somehow reduce their homicide rate low enough to justify this new ban?  I don't think so.  Like I said before, maybe that's just the difference between the queen's vassal states and the U.S.  I dunno but either way, whether they wanna turn in their guns or not is none of my business.

Edited by ballsalsa (03/21/19 09:44 PM)

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25888913 -

Ok here is a reference (Which i went to because your numbers looked wrong) that clearly lays out both sides and ends up agreeing with neither of us.

Frames what both of us are saying in a way.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-28/fact-check-gun-homicides-and-suicides-john-howard-port-arthur/7254880

Trusted relatively unbiased source.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888943 -

well there you have it.  when the data doesn't clearly support firearms restrictions I'll choose to err on the side of retaining firearms.

while your article does at least address the general trend of falling homicides regardless of the reforms, I notice that it failed to explicitly mention that this trend was broadly spread across the western(ized) world, again, regardless of reforms.

Edited by ballsalsa (03/21/19 10:05 PM)

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25888989 -

The data is clear about one thing.

Gun crime dropped in Australia when the semi auto guns were reduced.

Hows the Data looking in the the States atm?

Would you not think all the unreported factors that must've played their part here (tongue in cheek) have had an impact where you are?


Also this isnt about practical use of Guns its about...military grade no reason why weapons.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: New Zealand bans most semiautomatic rifles [Re: pineninja]
    #25888999 -

the data looks good.  homicides are at near historic lows, just like the rest of the western world.

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