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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Assault rifle ban debate
    #3108828 - 09/08/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040908/pl_afp/us_vote_politics_guns_040908192513

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Senators warned that the likely demise next week
of a 10-year ban on semi-automatic assault guns will trigger a flood
of such weapons in US cities.

Senator Dianne Feinstein called the assault weapons ban "one of the
most important public safety measures this country has seen."

"This is truly a dark day in the Senate's history, as we let this
ban, which has worked so well and saved lives, simply fade away,"
Feinstein said on the Senate floor.

The California Democrat was an original sponsor of the ban, enacted
by Congress a decade ago, which prohibited the sale and manufacture
of 19 types of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and also outlawed
ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds.

Massachusetts Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy called the banned
firearms "domestic weapons of mass destruction."

Assault weapons, Kennedy said "are intentionally designed to maximize
their killing power, by using a rapid rate of fire" and are "the
weapon of choice for drug traffickers, gangs and other criminal
groups across the nation."

The law, which has the support of law enforcement officials and a
broad cross-section of the US public, is due to expire at midnight on
September 13, unless lawmakers in Republican-controlled Congress vote
to reinstate it.

Supporters have said that a renewal vote is unlikely however, unless
US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) demonstrates strong
support for the measure, which they say he has failed to do so far.

Feinstein said the White House has failed to aggressively endorse the
ban, in hopes of winning support from the powerful National Rifle
Association (NRA) ahead of November's presidential election.

The membership of the NRA, which strenuously opposes renewing the
law, is largely white, conservative, rural and male -- a key
component of US President George W. Bush's base.

Equally vocal in its support of reinstating the anti-assault weapons
law, the non-profit Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has called
on the public to flood the White House with e-mails and telephone
calls urging its renewal.

The Brady group, which said that about 50 officers have died from
assault weapons fire in the past six years, said Bush's failure to
push for weapons ban gives the lie to his assertion that he is
a "compassionate conservative."

"If he doesn't call for action, the president will be showing that
his compassion is limited to the lunatics who want to stockpile Uzis,
AK-47s and Tec-9s," the group said in a statement.

The gun ban has not been a hot issue during the current presidential
campaign, but Democrats and anti-gun activists have vowed to try to
make it one.

Next week, a protest is planned in Washington by survivors of gun
violence and dozens of police chiefs to urge the president to renew
the ban.

In a poll this week, the National Annenberg Election Survey found
that 68 percent of Americans -- about two out of three respondents --
want an extension of ban.

The survey of nearly 5,000 adults was taken between August 10 and
September 4, and had a margin of error of plus or minus one
percentage point.

--------------------------------------------------------------


In a poll this week, the National Annenberg Election Survey found
that 68 percent of Americans -- about two out of three respondents --
want an extension of ban.


If only most Americans really understood what the Assault Rifle
ban entailed, what it doesn't accomplish, and how useless it is.


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Anonymous

Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3108841 - 09/08/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If only most Americans really understood what the Assault Rifle
ban entailed, what it doesn't accomplish, and how useless it is.


amen.

it'll die, and not a day too soon.  :thumbup:


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Anonymous

Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3108868 - 09/08/04 06:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Brady group, which said that about 50 officers have died from
assault weapons fire in the past six years...


wait a minute...

... NOW i'm confused. i thought "assault weapons" were illegal during the past six years... how can that be? :confused:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: ]
    #3108877 - 09/08/04 06:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)


it'll die, and not a day too soon.

Hehe, and I'll get my AR-15 with collapsible stock, bayonet lug,
grenade launcher, and all the other badass shit.

From my cold dead hands Feinstein......you bitch!


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3108891 - 09/08/04 06:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:tongue2:


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: ]
    #3108911 - 09/08/04 06:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

if anyone is interested in reading a real peice of information about "assault weapons" and their prohibition, rather than this transparently biased conduit of blather from idiots like ted kennedy, diane fienstien, and the brady people, here ya go...

"Assault Weapons"

Summary

Military-style semi-automatic firearms (so-called assault weapons) do not differ materially from non-military style semi-automatic firearms (one bullet is fired for each pull of the trigger) and are no more powerful than other semi-automatic weapons. Further, a bullet fired from a semi-automatic weapon is no more powerful than one of the same caliber fired from a corresponding non-semi-automatic handgun, rifle, or shotgun. In fact most assault weapons are less powerful than hunting rifles. For example, the AR-15 which is a semi-automatic version of the military's rifle (M-16), is a .223 caliber rifle. Rifles of this caliber are often forbidden from being used to hunt deer because this small caliber bullet is more likely to wound the animal (and allow it to escape and suffer a slow death) than the more powerful .24 to .30 caliber bullets normally used in deer hunting rifles. (An example of rifle caliber restrictions are Tennessee deer hunting regulations. Click on "regulations" in the frame area.)

Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general. Assault weapons are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes and about one percent in gun crimes. It is estimated that from one to seven percent of all homicides are committed with assault weapons (rifles of any type are involved in three to four percent of all homicides). However a higher percentage are used in police homicides, roughly ten percent. (There has been no consistent trend in this rate from 1978 through 1996.) Between 1992 and 1996 less than 4% of mass murders, committed with guns, involved assault weapons. (Our deadliest mass murders have either involved arson or bombs.)

There are close to 4 million assault weapons in the U.S., which amounts to roughly 1.7% of the total gun stock.

If assault weapons are so rarely used in crime, why all the hoopla when certain military-style-semi-automatic weapons were banned by the Crime Control Act of 1994? A Washington Post editorial (September 15, 1994) summed it up best:

No one should have any illusions about what was accomplished (by the ban). Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime. The provision is mainly symbolic; its virtue will be if it turns out to be, as hoped, a stepping stone to broader gun control.

Definitions

A genuine assault weapon, as opposed to a legal definition, is a hand-held, selective fire weapon, which means it's capable of firing in either an automatic or a semiautomatic mode depending on the position of a selector switch. These kinds of weapons are heavily regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and are further regulated in some states. (See machine guns.)

However, current "assault weapon" legislation defines certain semi-automatic weapons as "assault weapons." A semi-automatic weapon is one that fires a round with each pull of the trigger, versus an automatic weapon which continues to shoot until the trigger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted. These kinds of "assault weapons" are sometimes referred to as military-style semi-automatic weapons.

An example of assault weapon legislation is the Federal 1994 Crime Bill. The bill in part outlaws new civilian manufacture of certain semi-automatic assault weapons. It also prohibits new civilian manufacture of "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" declared certain weapons as assault weapons, and states a semi-automatic rifle is an assault weapon if it can accept a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following:

* A folding or telescoping stock
* A pistol grip
* A bayonet mount
* A flash suppressor, or threads to attach one

* A grenade launcher.

(For the Crime Bill's definition of assault shotguns and pistols, a list of assault weapons, and further legal issues see Crime Bill FAQ.)

Assault Weapons: The Weapons of Choice?

The following summary of police statistical surveys is excerpted from Kopel, David B, Rational Basis Analysis of "Assault Weapon" Prohibition. (Kopel's paper contains the citations for these surveys and lists a few more studies as well.)

* California. In 1990, "assault weapons" comprised thirty-six of the 963 firearms involved in homicide or aggravated assault and analyzed by police crime laboratories, according to a report prepared by the California Department of Justice, and based on data from police firearms laboratories throughout the state. The report concluded that "assault weapons play a very small role in assault and homicide firearm cases." Of the 1,979 guns seized from California narcotics dealers in 1990, fifty-eight were "assault weapons."

* Chicago. From 1985 through 1989, only one homicide was perpetrated with a military caliber rifle. Of the 17,144 guns seized by the Chicago police in 1989, 175 were "military style weapons."

* Florida. Florida Department of Law Enforcement Uniform Crime Reports for 1989 indicate that rifles of all types accounted for 2.6% of the weapons used in Florida homicides. The Florida Assault Weapons Commission found that "assault weapons" were used in 17 of 7,500 gun crimes for the years 1986-1989.

* Los Angeles. Of the more than 4,000 guns seized by police during one year, only about 3% were "assault weapons."

* Maryland. In 1989-90, there was only one death involving a "semiautomatic assault rifle" in all twenty-four counties of the State of Maryland.

* Massachusetts. Of 161 fatal shootings in Massachusetts in 1988, three involved "semiautomatic assault rifles." From 1985 to 1991, the guns were involved in 0.7% of all shootings.

* Miami. The Miami police seized 18,702 firearms from January 1, 1989 to December 31, 1993. Of these, 3.13% were "assault weapons."

* New Jersey. According to the Deputy Chief Joseph Constance of the Trenton New Jersey Police Department, in 1989, there was not a single murder involving any rifle, much less a "semiautomatic assault rifle," in the State of New Jersey. No person in New Jersey was killed with an "assault weapon" in 1988. Nevertheless, in 1990 the New Jersey legislature enacted an "assault weapon" ban that included low-power .22 rifles, and even BB guns. Based on the legislature's broad definition of "assault weapons," in 1991, such guns were used in five of 410 murders in New Jersey; in forty-seven of 22,728 armed robberies; and in twenty-three of 23,720 aggravated assaults committed in New Jersey.

* New York City. Of 12,138 crime guns seized by New York City police in 1988, eighty were "assault-type" firearms.

* New York State. Semiautomatic "assault rifles" were used in twenty of the 2,394 murders in New York State in 1992.

* San Diego. Of the 3,000 firearms seized by the San Diego police in 1988-90, nine were "assault weapons" under the California definition.

* San Francisco. Only 2.2% of the firearms confiscated in 1988 were military-style semiautomatics.

* Virginia. Of the 1,171 weapons analyzed in state forensics laboratories in 1992, 3.3% were "assault weapons."

* National statistics. Less than four percent of all homicides in the United States involve any type of rifle. No more than .8% of homicides are perpetrated with rifles using military calibers. (And not all rifles using such calibers are usually considered "assault weapons.") Overall, the number of persons killed with rifles of any type in 1990 was lower than the number in any year in the 1980s.

more at link:

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: ]
    #3108921 - 09/08/04 06:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)


wait a minute...

... NOW i'm confused. i thought "assault weapons" were illegal during
the past six years... how can that be?


Because criminals don't obey laws anyway, and whenever a new gun law
is passed the only people it affects are law-abiding citizens.

The law focused on making manufacturing of rifles with
certain characteristics illegal. But, it didn't make the
characteristics illegal to possess. Which means all of the old
rifles with the old "dangerous" characteristics are still legal to
own(they just went up in value because they weren't being manufactured
anymore). Also, all of the "bad" characteristics that were banned
from newly manufactured guns were things that do not factor into
gun violence in the country. For example, banning a bayonet lug
doesn't make any sense....because the gun itself is much more
dangerous than a bayonet. Also, what the fuck is the point of
banning the grenade launcher when it is illegal to possess grenades?
i.e. you can't use it to shoot grenades because you can't get
grenades. Take into account all of the gun violence in America.
How many people died from bayonets on assault rifles? How many
people died from grenade launchers? How many people died from
the collapsible stocks? They died from the guns themselves....which
remained perfectly legal to possess. What a stupid fucking law.
It accomplishes nothing. Even from an anti-gun stance it accomplishes
nothing.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: ]
    #3108949 - 09/08/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Right on. Most of the gun violence in this country is perpetrated
with handguns. "Assault rifles" are barely used at all in the
commission of crimes. So, why all of the hoopla about them? It
has to be mainly symbolic because they "look" so dangerous and
military like.

Imagine that...putting useless restrictions on non-lethal parts
of a lethal tool, and this tool is hardly used in the commission
of crimes. How smart is that?


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Anonymous

Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3109003 - 09/08/04 06:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"The semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons ? anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun ? can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."

- Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center

In other words, why are we trying to ban these guns? Because we think we CAN, that's why, not because we really think they are any more dangerous than other guns.

http://www.awbansunset.com/history.html


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: ]
    #3109046 - 09/08/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"...now they wanna get rid of toy guns, but their gonna keep the fucking real ones!" -george carlin


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinesos
overrated
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 410
Loc: Puget Sound Vicinity
Last seen: 11 years, 8 days
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3109047 - 09/08/04 06:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

FUCK guns.

Thank you good night!


--------------------
god made pot who do you trust, yeh i stole that off a lighter, so what, you wanna fight about it?


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: sos]
    #3109112 - 09/08/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I prefer to fuck women. You need a pretty small dick to fuck a gun, the average penis is decidedly larger than a .50 caliber diameter.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinesos
overrated
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/14/04
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Loc: Puget Sound Vicinity
Last seen: 11 years, 8 days
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: Evolving]
    #3109131 - 09/08/04 06:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

so thats why u nra guys buy guns. to fuck um.


--------------------
god made pot who do you trust, yeh i stole that off a lighter, so what, you wanna fight about it?


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: sos]
    #3109165 - 09/08/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What is the point of your nonsensical posts? Do you have something constructive to add or are you just playing on the grade school library computer until you big sister picks you up after her cheer leading practice?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3109188 - 09/08/04 07:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The states is terrible when it comes to violence and guns. So many other moderen countries with the same population (or even more of a population) have a signifigantly smaller record when it comes to deaths and shootings. The States is fucked up in that way, big time.

And now they want to lift a ban!?!?! Just goes to show how fucked up politics are in this place the sometimes call the: "land of the free."

It's so easy to hate the states, but it's their own fault.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3109217 - 09/08/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Please explain the rising crime rates in Australia and Great Britian after the passage of more restrictive gun laws, while during the same period crime rates dropped in the U.S. while more jurisdictions in that country adopted right to carry laws.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3109235 - 09/08/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Northernsoul said:
The states is terrible when it comes to violence and guns. So many other moderen countries with the same population (or even more of a population) have a signifigantly smaller record when it comes to deaths and shootings. The States is fucked up in that way, big time.



And you're prepared to say that this is soley(or at all...) because of gun ownership? Before you answer, I'd suggest doing some research. The tremendous amount of data on the subject would disagree with your position vehemently.

Quote:

And now they want to lift a ban!?!?! Just goes to show how fucked up politics are in this place the sometimes call the: "land of the free."



Am I missing some sarcasm here or could you possibly be serious? Are you trying to say that for congress to violate the constitution, specifically the guarantee of our inalienable right to bear arms, and continue this ban, would in fact be INCREASING freedom? Give me a break.

Quote:

It's so easy to hate the states, but it's their own fault



You're way off base.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinesos
overrated
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 410
Loc: Puget Sound Vicinity
Last seen: 11 years, 8 days
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: Evolving]
    #3109299 - 09/08/04 07:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

plz EVOLVing take your ak's your crystal meth and your hillbilly ass back to bush country.


--------------------
god made pot who do you trust, yeh i stole that off a lighter, so what, you wanna fight about it?


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: sos]
    #3109324 - 09/08/04 07:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Do you have something constructive to offer or are bad grammar and pre-pubescent attempts at insult all that you can muster?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Assault rifle ban debate [Re: sos]
    #3109373 - 09/08/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

your inability to make an actual argument in support of your beliefs on this subject, opting instead to make personal attacks based on ignorant stereotypes, speaks volumes.

how about making an actual argument on the subject at hand?


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