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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25772451 -

koods said:
There’s nothing more condescending than essentially saying Venezuela is just some CIA plaything and the US controls the destiny of the country. That’s what Chavez and maduro have been saying for 15 years. It’s not their incompetence and pillaging ruining the country. It’s all the CIAs fault. It so pathetic.


I presented plenty of evidence that the CIA is meddling, and you haven't even tried to refute it, other than saying you believe whatever the Government tells the New York Times to print.

koods said:
If the CIA truly wanted them gone they would have been gone years ago.


So Trump backing the guy who recently declared himself President isn't the US wanting Maduro gone?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25772457 -

MagicMush123 said:
..was just saying that ive asked a few times whether it was socialism or outside influence for their problems and he seems to think that it is internal corruption :shrug:


There's no doubt there's corruption.  I even posted an article that mentioned it above:
Quote:
...the dream went sour. In particular it fell foul of the tendency of centrally planned economies to fail to get the commodities people want onto shop shelves, and to the corruption that goes with centralization. The latter was certainly not worse than the right wing corruption it replaced, but that does not diminish its existence.



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25772489 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
There’s nothing more condescending than essentially saying Venezuela is just some CIA plaything and the US controls the destiny of the country. That’s what Chavez and maduro have been saying for 15 years. It’s not their incompetence and pillaging ruining the country. It’s all the CIAs fault. It so pathetic.


I presented plenty of evidence that the CIA is meddling, and you haven't even tried to refute it, other than saying you believe whatever the Government tells the New York Times to print.

koods said:
If the CIA truly wanted them gone they would have been gone years ago.


So Trump backing the guy who recently declared himself President isn't the US wanting Maduro gone?


The US and most of the world doesn’t consider Maduro the legitimately elected president. This is not new. So, Guaido comes along and declares himself interim president and everyone jumped on board.

I used to argue about Chávez way back in the early 2000s when I was active at the DaikyKos. Boy everyone there just loved him. A few of us knew better. It was clear what direction Chavez was going to lead the country and how his policies were disasterous. Political repression, false flags, running around in camouflage military garb, the cult of personality. The writing was on the wall all the way back then.
It’s just amazing to me that people couldn’t see Chávez for exactly the leader he turned out to be. This isn’t socialism. This was simply taking everything of value and wasting it. Destroying industry. Driving anyone with the means to leave to leave. Turning over the foundations of the economy to people who have no idea what they are doing.

I don’t know what your deal is fal, but you really go to bat for the worst leaders in the world.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25772523 -

I never said Maduro was a good leader, and I even agreed he was corrupt in my last post.

What I'm speaking out against is the US intervening in Venezuela to help ensure socialism fails, and to get a US friendly puppet in power regardless of what the people of Venezuela want.

Just like we did in Ukraine.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25772550 -

Why not let the people of Venezuela decide what they want and stop calling their support of Guaido nothing more than a CIA led coup. It may be a coup, but it’s the people of Venezuela that are behind it. Stop infantilizing them.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25772567 -

koods said:
Why not let the people of Venezuela decide what they want


EXACTLY.

koods said:
...and stop calling their support of Guaido nothing more than a CIA led coup. It may be a coup, but it’s the people of Venezuela that are behind it. Stop infantilizing them.


The rich Venezuelans ARE behind it.  Do you know anything about Guaido?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25772578 -

kood youre a sucker for imperialist propadanda, thats all. you can't dare question these narratives without assuming that we think Maduro is the best. you have gone along with the coup narrative. why ignore the millions of $ from the US for the opposition and othr groups? plus the long history of this shit in south america,,...


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25772590 -

Tipote said:
kood youre a sucker for imperialist propadanda, thats all. you can't dare question these narratives without assuming that we think Maduro is the best. you have gone along with the coup narrative. why ignore the millions of $ from the US for the opposition and othr groups? plus the long history of this shit in south america,,...


Exactly.  That's why so many people here think I'm crazy.  "DURRR, YOU MUST LOVE PUTIN BECAUSE YOU WENT TO CRIMEA TO SEEK THE TRUTH!"

No, I don't love Putin.  I just hate lies.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25772607 -

In fact, you went to Palestine seeking the truth there too, and Tulsi Gabbard went to Syria to seek the truth.

And now we're all being attacked for not simply accepting the official Government narrative.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25772646 -

Ok I went to Venezuela before Chávez destroyed it


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25772711 -

Cool, what year did you go?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25772842 -

This is going to end in a bloodbath. It always does after failed coup attempts. It's just going to be even worse if America tries to help the rebels.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25773130 -

I know I'm preaching to the saved here, but here's more:

Top 5 Dumbest Arguments Defending Trump’s Venezuela Interventionism
Quote:
I have not received a single robust argument in favor of Trump’s Venezuela interventionism, but I have received a whole lot of really, really stupid ones. Here are the top five most common and most astonishingly idiotic of them...



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25773179 -

I'm now seeing a shitload of news on Venezuela.  Here's a great video from Jimmy Dore with guests who actually went there to see what's really going on:

Venezuela Propaganda Debunked - People Are Against Coup



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25773405 -

In case anyone who doesn't have time to watch the whole video above (that video is well worth watching), watch 10:12 - 11:58.

While there are millions of Venezuelans who are anti-Maduro, there are many times more who support him.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #25773814 -

Baby_Hitler said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
How do you think the Venezuelan elections were less legitimate?


Lack of a free press, for starters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Venezuela


Actually, that got debunked by the reporters that went there and appeared on the Jimmy Dore video I just posted.  Watch from 11:00-12:00.  It turns out 80-90% of media in Venezuela is ANTI-Government.  And the censorship there appears tocome from the US Government sanctions!

Fucking crazy.

By the way, the guests who appeared on the Jimmy Dore show are the ones who produce the Empire Files.

They did an epic takedown of John Oliver, who I used to respect until he became an establishment shill like Rachael Maddow.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (01/28/19 04:29 AM)

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25774635 -

koods said:
Ok I went to Venezuela before Chávez destroyed it


Venezuela was in a shitty state before Chavez, which is why he had such a strong mandate to address issues of poverty.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: vault123] * 1
    #25774647 -

vault123 said:
This is going to end in a bloodbath. It always does after failed coup attempts. It's just going to be even worse if America tries to help the rebels.


i think that getting a guy in a street to call himself the president and then get your allies to agree probably wasn't their attempt at a coup exactly, its a successful method of escalation though. Its a matter of time before rampant violence IMO. There are already far right vigilantes killing chavistas and the groundwork has been in place for years.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25775018 -

Tipote said:
koods said:
Ok I went to Venezuela before Chávez destroyed it


Venezuela was in a shitty state before Chavez, which is why he had such a strong mandate to address issues of poverty.


Exactly, that's why I asked when he was there (and it's probably why he didn't answer).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25775332 -

“I am convinced that the path to a new, better and possible world is not capitalism, the path is socialism.”

Hugo Chavez


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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