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Venezuelan Socialism
    #8928598 - 09/14/08 03:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have heard people say Chavez has been good for Venezuela and I have heard it said that he has been bad for Venezuela. Does anyone have any insight into the situation in Venezuela right now?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8928614 - 09/14/08 03:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

They are currently subsisting on Chavez's blather.  Not very nutritious but there seems to be an endless supply.


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8928723 - 09/14/08 04:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Who says Chavez has been good?  (Besides your local commie)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8928766 - 09/14/08 04:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> Does anyone have any insight into the situation in Venezuela right now?

Living fairly close, and knowing a lot of cruisers (people that live on boats) that visit Venezuela during hurricane season, I have gotten an earful.  If you were extremely poor, then things are a better in some places, but not everywhere.  If you were slightly poor, nothing has changed.  If you were middle class, then things have gotten much worse.  If you were upper class, and sided with Chavez, then things are awesome.  If you were upper class, and stood against Chavez, then you are dead.


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8928912 - 09/14/08 04:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think it's my place to meddle in the affairs of Venezuela... I am simply asking out of pure curiosity what the situation is like under Chavez.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8928934 - 09/14/08 04:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's time we went down and gave them democracy until
they bleed red white and blue, then maybe they can spend
$4.50/gal for gas instead of a quarter


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8929000 - 09/14/08 05:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I think it's time we went down and gave them democracy until
they bleed red white and blue, then maybe they can spend
$4.50/gal for gas instead of a quarter




They're a federal republic :rolleyes:

Also while we're bringing gas up, I think that gas subsidization in a country where 30% of the GDP comes from oil revenues, is a good form of wealth redistribution.  Hopefully some of the 40% of their country that is still underneath the poverty line can use that to their advantage in starting new businesses.

If you have a problem with wealth redistribution, remember that their poor are more than twice as poor as those in the US, as a percentage of GDP, while their rich are only slightly richer than ours, %GDP.  There's a million other factors why Venezuela is so open and ripe to certain socialist ideas, but it could fill a book.


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Seuss]
    #8929136 - 09/14/08 05:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Living fairly close, and knowing a lot of cruisers (people that live on boats) that visit Venezuela during hurricane season, I have gotten an earful.




We get quite a few Venezuelans passing through here on a regular basis, too. Also, several friends of mine do business in Venezuela.

Quote:

If you were extremely poor, then things are a better in some places, but not everywhere.  If you were slightly poor, nothing has changed.  If you were middle class, then things have gotten much worse.  If you were upper class, and sided with Chavez, then things are awesome.  If you were upper class, and stood against Chavez, then you are dead.




LOL. That's pretty much word for word what I hear, too. Of course, I will admit none of the folks I'm hearing it from are extremely poor or slightly poor, but all of them claim to know many who are.

Chavez has been a complete disaster for Venezuela. Apparently, he's growing more unhinged with the passage of time, too. Not good.

As a side note, four out of ten of the most drop-dead gorgeous women I have ever seen live in the flesh were from Venezuela, and that's saying a lot, because we get TONS of drop-dead gorgeous women passing through here from all over the world. But the Venezuelan ladies.... something special, for sure.




Phred


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Ferris]
    #8929149 - 09/14/08 05:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I think it's time we went down and gave them democracy until
they bleed red white and blue, then maybe they can spend
$4.50/gal for gas instead of a quarter




They're a federal republic :rolleyes:





I guess that'll teach me to make a joke about americans


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8929191 - 09/14/08 05:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

My bad, by all means


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Ferris]
    #8930413 - 09/14/08 10:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

After doing some reading about the situation it seems that what inspired the people of Venezuela to vote in Chavez in the first place was that they did it because the USA was meddling in their affairs. Before Chavez was in power there was a situation where the Venezuelan government enacted a number of policies that they were encouraged to enact by The USA. These policies made it harder for many Venezuelans to satisfy there basic needs such as feeding themselves. One of the policies resulted in gas prices being raised which a lot of people weren't able to afford and there was a number of of other policies too. As far as Chavez is concerned I am neutral... I don't have strong feelings about him or his policies.... however I know the usa government dislikes him. If they dislike him so much they should not have pressured Venezuela to enact policies that resulted in people voting him into power.


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8930570 - 09/14/08 10:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Also, there was the unintentional crushing of the Venezuelan economy in the late 80s, when OPEC increased production at the behest of the American government, in an attempt to crush the soviet economy.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Ferris]
    #8933803 - 09/15/08 04:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Also, there was the unintentional crushing of the Venezuelan economy in the late 80s, when OPEC increased production at the behest of the American government, in an attempt to crush the soviet economy.




What the fuck are you going on about now?


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8933964 - 09/15/08 05:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Excuse me, that was slightly misinformed.  It was Saudi Arabia (an OPEC country) and all the non-OPEC countries, that simultaneously raised production (I think it was 1989).  Saudi Arabia did it because all the other members of OPEC weren't obeying quota limits.  Non-OPEC countries did it in part for that reason, but mostly to deal a blow to the Soviets, who were undergoing a severe financial crisis at the time and couldn't procure any new loans.  The resulting blow to their oil-dependent economy was the final blow that they would never recover from (they had poor chances before).  This whole scheme was lead mostly by the US-Saudi team.  Venezuela and a few other oil countries were hit HARD by this.


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Ferris]
    #8934526 - 09/15/08 06:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Good thing they learned to diversify their economy after that... oh wait...


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: Ferris]
    #8934583 - 09/15/08 07:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Here is an article on the matter: Venezuela : Democracy, Socialism and Imperialism

What ever you think though, Chavez has fought off the US and oil corporations from raping their country of it's energy reserves and that's worth something.


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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: DieCommie]
    #8934603 - 09/15/08 07:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:smirk:

Don't forget that the ratio between the percentage of gdp that comes from oil, and the number of people that the oil economy actually employs, sucks.

The same redistribution of oil money that happens in Venezuela also happens in Alaska, so we can only be so critical.  The difference is in America, we lease public land out, and there they keep the land and control their money directly.  Isn't that the smart move to make?


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Invisiblericeandpeas
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: lines]
    #8937265 - 09/16/08 03:15 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lines said:
I have heard people say Chavez has been good for Venezuela and I have heard it said that he has been bad for Venezuela. Does anyone have any insight into the situation in Venezuela right now?




Chavez has been an absolute blessing for the poor and the middle-class in Venezuela. The programs he has put in place were undreamed of when the capitalists were amassing power and money into ever smaller groups. That's why he wins every vote.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: riceandpeas]
    #8937270 - 09/16/08 03:18 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Not to open a new thread, but bolivia and venezuala just yanked their diplomatic envoys to the US and the US in turn made their diplomats persona non gratta.


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8937353 - 09/16/08 03:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Not to open a new thread, but bolivia and venezuala just yanked their diplomatic envoys to the US and the US in turn made their diplomats persona non gratta.




Source?  Cia world factbook had the, listed yesterday


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Re: Venezuelan Socialism [Re: riceandpeas]
    #8938587 - 09/16/08 01:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chavez has been an absolute blessing for the poor and the middle-class in Venezuela. The programs he has put in place were undreamed of when the capitalists were amassing power and money into ever smaller groups




source?


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