Tantrika said:

Bigbadwooof said:

...
How do you see the toxic feminists as enemies in the fight for medicare for all?
...

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You can't fight for medicare for all
if you deny the validity of existence of people who need medical help to assuage mental illness

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So uh,
had meant to pull TERFs into this as kind of a joke
but turns out:

Quote:

Their position (which is not shared by this wiki) denies that trans people's self-affirmed genders and sexes are equally valid as cis people's self-affirmed genders and sexes. It has a decades-long history of allying with anti-feminist causes in denying trans people access to health care, and other human rights.

Unsurprisingly, many TERFs complain that "TERF" should be regarded as a slur.

---

Quote:

For example, Janice Raymond, a TERF, was singlehandedly responsible for decades of denial of health care directed at impoverished trans people in the United States. Raymond (a women's studies professor at U/Mass Amherst) wrote a position paper in 1980 -- "Technology on the Social and Ethical Aspects of Transsexual Surgery" (content warning: transmisogyny) -- that strongly influenced the US federal government's decision to exclude medically necessary care for trans people from Medicaid coverage for the next three decades.

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http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/TERF

whoops

christopera said:

My mother in law is a lesbian and at times a crazy feminist. Though she’s never anti man like some. She was hard line Hillary despite agreeing the Bernie had a better platform. It’s a shame. I’d vote for a cat if it campaigned on ending corporate welfare and creating medicare for all. A cat would probably serve better WH dinners anyways.

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Quote:

That said, I don’t care about the commercial and I don’t actively justify my job roles as male or female. There is no altruism in advertising. It seems like a waste of time to consider it as such. I’ll share all and every trade secret I know to an honest and hard working individual or group. Truth be told, in skilled trades learning curves for even simple things tend to be huge. So the information generally never becomes a threat and I do loads of consulting in a couple of niche markets. But when a determined individual pushes, unless it’s an outright brute force task, I’ve never seen a difference male to female.

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Tantrika said:

had meant to pull TERFs into this as kind of a joke
but turns out:

Quote:

Their position (which is not shared by this wiki) denies that trans people's self-affirmed genders and sexes are equally valid as cis people's self-affirmed genders and sexes. It has a decades-long history of allying with anti-feminist causes in denying trans people access to health care, and other human rights.

Unsurprisingly, many TERFs complain that "TERF" should be regarded as a slur.

---

Quote:

For example, Janice Raymond, a TERF, was singlehandedly responsible for decades of denial of health care directed at impoverished trans people in the United States. Raymond (a women's studies professor at U/Mass Amherst) wrote a position paper in 1980 -- "Technology on the Social and Ethical Aspects of Transsexual Surgery" (content warning: transmisogyny) -- that strongly influenced the US federal government's decision to exclude medically necessary care for trans people from Medicaid coverage for the next three decades.

---

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/TERF

whoops

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qman said:

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/democrats-put-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-financial-services-committee

It's time for those $1000 dinners with the corporate lobbyists and creating the perception that she's fighting the fight for the common person.

She's being groomed to be the perfect release valve, even more so than Obama.  She's going to be very critical of the Bankers (like Obama) and convinced the public that reform is coming their way. Of course, not of that is every going to happen.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Tantrika said:

had meant to pull TERFs into this as kind of a joke
but turns out:

Quote:

Their position (which is not shared by this wiki) denies that trans people's self-affirmed genders and sexes are equally valid as cis people's self-affirmed genders and sexes. It has a decades-long history of allying with anti-feminist causes in denying trans people access to health care, and other human rights.

Unsurprisingly, many TERFs complain that "TERF" should be regarded as a slur.

---

Quote:

For example, Janice Raymond, a TERF, was singlehandedly responsible for decades of denial of health care directed at impoverished trans people in the United States. Raymond (a women's studies professor at U/Mass Amherst) wrote a position paper in 1980 -- "Technology on the Social and Ethical Aspects of Transsexual Surgery" (content warning: transmisogyny) -- that strongly influenced the US federal government's decision to exclude medically necessary care for trans people from Medicaid coverage for the next three decades.

---

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/TERF

whoops

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Are you suggesting that medicaid should pay for gender reassignment surgery?

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Bigbadwooof said:

AOC is young and idealistic. She's younger than me for Christ's sake. She didn't take money from any big moneyed interests during her campaign. I very highly doubt that she can be corrupted by money.

I do think the media will try to frame her in the way that you are, because she utterly terrifies them. People from her side of the spectrum terrify elites, which is why, if you've seen Falcon's latest post, the UK government funded a propagandist machine to spread an anti-Corbyn message. That is why we're already seeing the MSM go after Bernie, before he has even announced his candidacy (to my knowledge).

You'll never see money corrupt Sanders either, but you will see the media try to portray him in that light.

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Tantrika said:

Am just finding it funny that there was TERF (your reference to "TFs" brought it to forefront in my mind) involvement with regards to medical care at all

here in Canada health coverage for transitional surgeries varies somewhat by province
hormone therapy, mental health support, and some surgeries are covered
on the general scope; bottom surgery is considered medically necessary for mental well-being and covered
while something like breast implants is considered strictly cosmetic, and is not covered

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I'll bet you're wrong, as Cortez isn't an establishment politician as Obama was.

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Bigbadwooof said:

qman said:

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/democrats-put-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-financial-services-committee

It's time for those $1000 dinners with the corporate lobbyists and creating the perception that she's fighting the fight for the common person.

She's being groomed to be the perfect release valve, even more so than Obama.  She's going to be very critical of the Bankers (like Obama) and convinced the public that reform is coming their way. Of course, not of that is every going to happen.

---

I don't think so. AOC is young and idealistic. She's younger than me for Christ's sake. She didn't take money from any big moneyed interests during her campaign. I very highly doubt that she can be corrupted by money.

I do think the media will try to frame her in the way that you are, because she utterly terrifies them. People from her side of the spectrum terrify elites, which is why, if you've seen Falcon's latest post, the UK government funded a propagandist machine to spread an anti-Corbyn message. That is why we're already seeing the MSM go after Bernie, before he has even announced his candidacy (to my knowledge).

You'll never see money corrupt Sanders either, but you will see the media try to portray him in that light.

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qman said:

I don't believe she terrifies them, she's actually is going to be the most useful tool for them.

It's not like she is going to start off being big sellout, it will just come with time.  Now that she's on this committee, the question is going to be 'what has she done for the people'?  She's going to quickly find out, if she hasn't already that she's not going to extract money out of the elite, not gonna happen.

As a result, she's going to rationalize the fact that none of her proposals were ever implemented, Cortez will also think of herself and rationalize the fact that staying in Congress is still better than not being there at all.

Al Sharpton always rationalized the sellout game of Obama, suggesting that it's better than nothing to have a black US President regardless of his sellout status. I assume, Cortez will use the same rationalizations down the road.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Tantrika said:

Am just finding it funny that there was TERF (your reference to "TFs" brought it to forefront in my mind) involvement with regards to medical care at all

here in Canada health coverage for transitional surgeries varies somewhat by province
hormone therapy, mental health support, and some surgeries are covered
on the general scope; bottom surgery is considered medically necessary for mental well-being and covered
while something like breast implants is considered strictly cosmetic, and is not covered

---

Are TERF's feminists who don't support transgender people?

I'm sorry, I'm not terribly familiar with all of the jargon. It's hard to keep up with.

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Quote:

TERF is an acronym for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. Sometimes, "exclusionary" is expanded as "eliminationist" or "exterminationist" instead to more accurately convey the degree to which TERFs advocate for harm towards trans people, specifically trans people who were coercively assigned male at birth.

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http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/TERF

basically if you ever had a penis you are evil forever

their position is one of transwomen being men who are 'colonizing womanhood' because men are monsters like that

interestingly, some apparently also hold the position that transmen experience male privilege, and effectively are traitors against women

so, in terms of 'toxic feminism'
it is effectively a demographic recognized by other feminists as being toxically feminist

my reference to how their discriminatory positions towards men more generally
potentially get involved with "alienating progressive allies in the fight for medicare for all or other goals"
had been meant to be a joke, regarding how they want feminist freedoms for all women except the transwomen minority (who are men and to be treated as men, in  their eyes)

Tantrika said:

Quote:

TERF is an acronym for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. Sometimes, "exclusionary" is expanded as "eliminationist" or "exterminationist" instead to more accurately convey the degree to which TERFs advocate for harm towards trans people, specifically trans people who were coercively assigned male at birth.

---

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/TERF

basically if you ever had a penis you are evil forever

their position is one of transwomen being men who are 'colonizing womanhood' because men are monsters like that

interestingly, some apparently also hold the position that transmen experience male privilege, and effectively are traitors against women

so, in terms of 'toxic feminism'
it is effectively a demographic recognized by other feminists as being toxically feminist

my reference to how their discriminatory positions towards men more generally
potentially get involved with "alienating progressive allies in the fight for medicare for all or other goals"
had been meant to be a joke, regarding how they want feminist freedoms for all women except the transwomen minority (who are men and to be treated as men, in  their eyes)

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Bigbadwooof said:

How do you see the toxic feminists as enemies in the fight for medicare for all?

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ballsalsa said:

Bigbadwooof said:

How do you see the toxic feminists as enemies in the fight for medicare for all?

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Primarily by being too overtly wacky for the average person to agree with at a glance.
If one's message is directly hostile to men, whether or not turnabout is fair play, one will be alienating close to half of eligible voters.
It's like how if the klan starts supporting something, you just know you should be agin' it without having to examine much further than that.

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Bigbadwooof said:

ballsalsa said:

Bigbadwooof said:

How do you see the toxic feminists as enemies in the fight for medicare for all?

---

Primarily by being too overtly wacky for the average person to agree with at a glance.
If one's message is directly hostile to men, whether or not turnabout is fair play, one will be alienating close to half of eligible voters.
It's like how if the klan starts supporting something, you just know you should be agin' it without having to examine much further than that.

---

I try not to be so closed minded, but 99 times out of 100, you're probably right.

When people say things like 'that's what the Nazi's' did, to suggest that something is a bad idea, I try to remember that the Nazi's had a lot of great ideas. Germany, a relatively small country, almost took over the entire world. The did many terrible, abhorrent things, but the reasons those things are terrible are quite evident. As with anything else, it is important to scrutinize the ideas, rather than the ones who craft them.

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Brian Jones said:

I don't see more woman voting for Clinton as being evidence of toxic feminism. At all.

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Quote:

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---

That's a lot of ifs.
I'm not interested in a bait and switch.
I'll save my $10 for the campaign...if it materializes.

On a side note, I went to predictit today and saw that Kamala is the front-runner right now.

obviously, that would change significantly should bernie declare.