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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #25722262 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Yes, they should be documented, and if there is a need to have them here in the United States, then we should make it possible for them to be here legally. When people are living here illegally, they are more likely to be subject to abuse.

You know, if I want to move to another country, there are a lot of hoops for me to jump through, and I wouldn't even qualify for a lot of countries. I have a whole book that outlines the laws about how to get visas, and citizenship in other countries, and it isn't easy, almost anywhere you go.

I think that America should have a pathway to citizenship, but I think we need to act in our best interest, and be selective, as does every other country in the world. I don't believe that the current situation is in our best interest, though. We should not have a system that can't function without laws being broken. We should adjust the laws.



There should be a legal path for entry via a temporary status (h2a). Companies should have to sponsor employees as they are looking for the low wage employment, then those same companies should be at least partially on the hook for overstayed visas. I.e. a check-in check-out system. If you don't do both you will be deported and the company will be charged/fined. There's little to no accountability as is, not for the immigrant or those benefiting from the labor.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Edited by christopera (01/04/19 08:32 AM)

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: koods] * 2
    #25722415 -

koods said:
Yeah it’s so they can get insurance so it’s a good thing



No, it's not "a good thing" that an illegal immigrant is allowed to obtain a legal drivers license, it's a fucking disgrace.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 1
    #25722482 -

qman said:
koods said:
Yeah it’s so they can get insurance so it’s a good thing



No, it's not "a good thing" that an illegal immigrant is allowed to obtain a legal drivers license, it's a fucking disgrace.



Amen.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: christopera]
    #25722563 -

christopera said:
There should be a legal path for entry via a temporary status (h2a). Companies should have to sponsor employees as they are looking for the low wage employment, then those same companies should be at least partially on the hook for overstayed visas. I.e. a check-in check-out system. If you don't do both you will be deported and the company will be charged/fined. There's little to no accountability as is, not for the immigrant or those benefiting from the labor.



That sounds like a perfect compromise. Immigration control, without marginalizing immigrants, that makes American employers accountable, rather than the government, and offers a pathway to citizenship.

If you want to control immigration, you have to do it through their employers, here in the US.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/04/19 12:10 PM)

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #25722585 -

Bigbadwooof said:
christopera said:
There should be a legal path for entry via a temporary status (h2a). Companies should have to sponsor employees as they are looking for the low wage employment, then those same companies should be at least partially on the hook for overstayed visas. I.e. a check-in check-out system. If you don't do both you will be deported and the company will be charged/fined. There's little to no accountability as is, not for the immigrant or those benefiting from the labor.



That sounds like a perfect compromise. Immigration control, without marginalizing immigrants, that makes American employers accountable, rather than the government, and offers a pathway to citizenship.

If you want to control immigration, you have to do it through their employers, here in the US.



And when the immigrant gets sick without health insurance, who pays for the health care?

Who pays for the immigrants child that is born here?  Their food, education, health care and other expenses?  Not the employer, it's the taxpayer.

The elite benefit from the cheap labor and then the average US citizen provides the first world standard of living off of their backs.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 2
    #25722624 -

qman said:
koods said:
Yeah it’s so they can get insurance so it’s a good thing



No, it's not "a good thing" that an illegal immigrant is allowed to obtain a legal drivers license, it's a fucking disgrace.



At least others gave reasons why they believe a license is good.  You don't even try to provide a reason you feel it is bad.  :shrug:

qman said:
And when the immigrant gets sick without health insurance, who pays for the health care?



The immigrant has to pay for it, but you've been told that many times already, so I don't know why you're wasting our time, other than to express your hatred of dark skinned people, which we already know about.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 2
    #25722625 -

qman said:
And when the immigrant gets sick without health insurance, who pays for the health care?

Who pays for the immigrants child that is born here?  Their food, education, health care and other expenses?  Not the employer, it's the taxpayer.

The elite benefit from the cheap labor and then the average US citizen provides the first world standard of living off of their backs.



If we had reasonable marginal tax rates and universal healthcare, then the elite who are benefiting from their labor would also be paying their healthcare bills.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25722644 -

Bigbadwooof said:
qman said:
And when the immigrant gets sick without health insurance, who pays for the health care?

Who pays for the immigrants child that is born here?  Their food, education, health care and other expenses?  Not the employer, it's the taxpayer.

The elite benefit from the cheap labor and then the average US citizen provides the first world standard of living off of their backs.



If we had reasonable marginal tax rates and universal healthcare, then the elite who are benefiting from their labor would also be paying their healthcare bills.



Fal thinks since the broke immigrant receives a hospital bill, they're going to pay it and it doesn't raise the price of health care for the people that do pay for it. Talk about make believe land.

Also, do you really think a universal health care system needs to be burdened with millions of illegal immigrants?  It's a good way for the care to suffer and for the system to go broke.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25722649 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
koods said:
Yeah it’s so they can get insurance so it’s a good thing



No, it's not "a good thing" that an illegal immigrant is allowed to obtain a legal drivers license, it's a fucking disgrace.



At least others gave reasons why they believe a license is good.  You don't even try to provide a reason you feel it is bad.  :shrug:



Hmm, maybe it's a good idea not to reward someone who's currently breaking the law.

It dilutes legal citizenship, which I'm sure is the goal for many on the left.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 3
    #25722657 -

qman said:
Fal thinks since the broke immigrant receives a hospital bill, they're going to pay it and it doesn't raise the price of health care for the people that do pay for it. Talk about make believe land.

Also, do you really think a universal health care system needs to be burdened with millions of illegal immigrants?  It's a good way for the care to suffer and for the system to go broke.



There are countries all over the world with universal healthcare, and immigrants. They seem to be doing just fine.

Maybe the $3 Trillion in savings from switching over to universal healthcare can cover immigrants. Maybe we could have a special tax on employers for the healthcare coverage of each of their migrant workers.

There are ways to approach this issue.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 1
    #25722681 -

qman said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
And when the immigrant gets sick without health insurance, who pays for the health care?



The immigrant has to pay for it, but you've been told that many times already



Fal thinks since the broke immigrant receives a hospital bill, they're going to pay it and it doesn't raise the price of health care for the people that do pay for it. Talk about make believe land.



No, I think immigrants won't get seen if they can't pay, unless they have an emergency.  Getting sick doesn't count as an emergency.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25722707 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
And when the immigrant gets sick without health insurance, who pays for the health care?



The immigrant has to pay for it, but you've been told that many times already



Fal thinks since the broke immigrant receives a hospital bill, they're going to pay it and it doesn't raise the price of health care for the people that do pay for it. Talk about make believe land.



No, I think immigrants won't get seen if they can't pay, unless they have an emergency.  Getting sick doesn't count as an emergency.



They use the emergency room and urgent care centers for their health care.  They have to get treated.

I have a friend that works at a urgent care center, illegals go in all the time and burden them with headaches and other problems.  They give a false address and that's the end of it.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #25722710 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
No, I think immigrants won't get seen if they can't pay, unless they have an emergency.  Getting sick doesn't count as an emergency.



Either way, it will be cheaper once we have a government that negotiates for more reasonable healthcare costs, which we will have in the near future.

I think this is kind of a silly point though, because we already have immigrants going to the ER when they severely injure themselves. We're already paying for this, and it hasn't collapsed our economy.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #25722924 -

That's a great point.

And I talked about my own foreign healthcare experience here (another 'rabbit hole' if you haven't seen that one yet).  :smirk:


Edit:  Even though you didn't post in that thread, I guess you saw it since you 'up voted' it.  One of my most up voted posts ever.  :grin:

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25722955 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's a great point.

And I talked about my own foreign healthcare experience here (another 'rabbit hole' if you haven't seen that one yet).  :smirk:


Edit:  Even though you didn't post in that thread, I guess you saw it since you 'up voted' it.  One of my most up voted posts ever.  :grin:



I believe that is the same rabbit hole, comrade! lmao!

I'm pretty sure your Crimea thread lead me to that thread. Your experience with Russia's healthcare system sounds better than any experience I have ever had with the American healthcare system.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #25722982 -

It was WAY better than anything I've ever experienced here.

I'm just being honest, and I explained why.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25723003 -

Just don't give them Scopes n the night


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]

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25723018 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
No, I think immigrants won't get seen if they can't pay, unless they have an emergency.  Getting sick doesn't count as an emergency.



Either way, it will be cheaper once we have a government that negotiates for more reasonable healthcare costs, which we will have in the near future.

I think this is kind of a silly point though, because we already have immigrants going to the ER when they severely injure themselves. We're already paying for this, and it hasn't collapsed our economy.



I agree, using and abusing the ER is a very poor policy.

Employers of immigrants get off the hook with this whole thing, it always lands on Joe Six-Pack.

The government already knows where they work, yet nothing is done about it.  The elite run the show on immigration, too bad so many natives support their policy to enrich themselves at their own expense.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 2
    #25723033 -

qman said:
too bad so many natives support their policy to enrich themselves at their own expense.



I think most 'natives' now support a Bernie style Medicare for All, where everyone pays 2.2% of their income for healthcare.  It works out to be cheaper for the bottom 95%.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: BUILD THE WALL [Re: qman] * 2
    #25723037 -

qman said:
I agree, using and abusing the ER is a very poor policy.

Employers of immigrants get off the hook with this whole thing, it always lands on Joe Six-Pack.

The government already knows where they work, yet nothing is done about it.  The elite run the show on immigration, too bad so many natives support their policy to enrich themselves at their own expense.



That's why I suggested that, if we had an immigration policy like the one Christopera had suggested, and we had universal healthcare, we could make employers pay a special tax for each immigrant worker they employ/sponsor's medical coverage. That would be miles better than having illegal/undocumented immigrants flooding ER's, and not paying their medical bills.

I wish I cared enough to learn more about immigration issues, and formulate a more nuanced opinion on the matter. I honestly just don't find it to be one of the more pressing issues this country is facing. I think some fairly straightforward answers have been proposed on this thread, and I think both sides could easily come to an agreement on the matter, without the need for a stupid fucking wall.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/04/19 04:42 PM)

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