Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I already provided the link.

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Instead of just linking some material, why don't you tell me in exact details what makes China a socialist market economy relative to other nations, what specific criteria are you using.

What specific changes would China have to make to change your outlook on their economic status?

The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

Capitalism is great because democracy should extend to everywhere except where it matters most: the economy.

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That's why capitalism needs to be regulated to benefit the most people as possible.  Unfortunately, that regulation only comes when it comes to desperate circumstances.

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Why dont we create a system thats not based on exploitation, and then tirelessly work to contain that exploitation...

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qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I already provided the link.

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Instead of just linking some material, why don't you tell me in exact details what makes China a socialist market economy relative to other nations, what specific criteria are you using.

What specific changes would China have to make to change your outlook on their economic status?

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I already provided the link.

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Instead of just linking some material, why don't you tell me in exact details what makes China a socialist market economy relative to other nations, what specific criteria are you using.

What specific changes would China have to make to change your outlook on their economic status?

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If you want "exact detail" you need to read the link.  If you want a high level summary, the big difference is that the state retains controlling shares in all China's big companies, while smaller businesses like restaurants are allowed to be temporarily privatized on the road to full socialism.

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The Ecstatic said:

as long as we discover a couple new continents to exploit we're set.

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Bubbles85 said:

I'm lost here. What is your definition of "full socialism?" China's government controlled 80% of the economy before the 1980s. Is that not full socialism?

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No, I'd call that 80% socialism. 

Bubbles85 said:

How does privatizing 60+% of that previous command economy set them on the road to what they all ready had before hand?

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Quote:

The ideological rationale for this system is that China is in the "primary" or "preliminary" stage of socialism, an early stage within the socialist mode of production, and therefore has to adapt capitalist techniques to thrive in a global market system.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I already provided the link.

---

Instead of just linking some material, why don't you tell me in exact details what makes China a socialist market economy relative to other nations, what specific criteria are you using.

What specific changes would China have to make to change your outlook on their economic status?

---

If you want "exact detail" you need to read the link.  If you want a high level summary, the big difference is that the state retains controlling shares in all China's big companies, while smaller businesses like restaurants are allowed to be temporarily privatized on the road to full socialism.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Bubbles85 said:

I'm lost here. What is your definition of "full socialism?" China's government controlled 80% of the economy before the 1980s. Is that not full socialism?

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No, I'd call that 80% socialism. 

Bubbles85 said:

How does privatizing 60+% of that previous command economy set them on the road to what they all ready had before hand?

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It's explained in the link:

Quote:

The ideological rationale for this system is that China is in the "primary" or "preliminary" stage of socialism, an early stage within the socialist mode of production, and therefore has to adapt capitalist techniques to thrive in a global market system.

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Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
...the big difference is that the state retains controlling shares in all China's big companies, while smaller businesses like restaurants are allowed to be temporarily privatized on the road to full socialism.

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Malouz said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Malouz said:

He's working on an idea of his country closer to the "Great Russia" before the october revolution.

Have you literally never watched any of his speeches ? I'm not on the same meridian here but I can give some examples tomorrow.

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Anyone want to bet Malouz can't find the Putin speeches about moving "his country closer to the 'Great Russia' before the october revolution"? 

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Of course he did not say it, don't give me sarcasm

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Malouz said:

Well economically(and culturally of course) speaking Putin is in favor of nationalism rather than internationalism
.
.
.
...he wants european countries to join in on his Greater Eurasia project.

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Malouz said:

now tell me how is he so popular if so many people would prefer a "soviet" type planned economy ?

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Because they realize a return to Communism is next to impossible without a world war.  Russian assets have been privatized and sold on the international stock exchange (the Russian Trading System, or RTS, now the Moscow Exchange).  Do you think people would just allow billions of dollars in their Russian stock to be taken back by the Russian Government without putting up a fight?

One reason they like Putin is because he doesn't bow to American pressure.

The Ecstatic said:

If you're commenting in this thread and havent read Marx, Engels, Bakunin, Kropotkin, or even Hagel or Rousseau, then just shut the fuck up.

Das Kapital is hard enough to simply read, let alone spoonfeed to a bunch of Randian zealots. Seriously, what do any of you chuds know about the tenets of socialism? What do you know about Marx's critiques of capitalism? Bakunin's critiques of Marx? The Paris Commune? The First International? Lenin and/or Trotsky? Max Stirner?

Jack shit.

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I don't think people need to read all of the primary sources you have listed, and I certainly don't think that people need to abstain from commenting for any reason. We don't need to go around perpetuating our reputation as fussy academics distant from the lives and real struggles of the working class. That said, one does need a willingness to do some research if they don't want to make a fool of themselves. Whether this is philosophy or economics I don't really care. Just know that it is painfully obvious how little most of the people in this thread know about the subject at hand, and reading literally any one of the links I provided would help them immensely in forming their arguments.

Capital really isn't that difficult either. You need a solid grasp of his terminology, and having read Smith, Ricardo and Hegel helps, but I honestly found it much easier than his earlier works.

Kudos for mentioning Max Stirner

xzylocybin said:

Singapore vs all of its neighbors, great example of how much better capitalism is.

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I'm sure that has nothing to do with foreign investors pumping money into their economy

The Ecstatic said:

albeit the absolute least amount of money necessary to operate their factories.

And like Fal said: nearly all of SE Asia is capitalist and nearly all of those nations are poor. Same goes for Subsarahan African, same goes for Eastern Europe, same goes for Central and South America.

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