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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5604958 - 05/08/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
It's OK to bend the rules if you are doing it for the worker.




Is he bending the rules? Does Venezuala have a constitution that states democratically elected leaders only serve for a certain term?

I agree that I wouldn't stand for such an action here, that is a lot of power for one man to have. But if the people of Venezuala are down than thats democracy. Gotta love it or leave it.






Chavez's "constitution" is a fucking joke... instituted by Chavez himself in December 1999, a year after he was elected, to extend his hold on power. Chavez supporters, who controlled the National Assembly, rammed the document through the legislature. It was later approved in a national referendum in which over half of the electorate stayed away from the polls.

The new "constitution" dissolved the senate, extended the president's term from five to six years, gave greater power to the military, tightened state control over the oil industry, and limited the central bank's autonomy.


The Venezuelan Constitution allows a president to be re-elected only once in immediate succession. Chavez is eligible for re-election to another six-year term in December, but if he wins he wouldn't be able to run again in 2012.


"I am going to call a referendum," Chavez said. "I am going to ask you, all the people, if you agree with Chavez being president until 2031."


The commies, liberals, and media love this guy!

I wish President Bush would do this, over half the people of America would be down with it. and than thats democracy.....right....

Gotta love it or leave it.......


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5605207 - 05/08/06 02:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

tightened state control over the oil industry

Yeah, perish the thought that the people of Venezuela might actually see some of the benefits of the oil money as opposed to rich foreign corporations.

The commies, liberals, and media love this guy!


So do the people of Venezuela.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Alex213]
    #5605223 - 05/08/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

This is definitely a bad step for Venezuela. I personally don't think Chavez is so bad right now(though I think his divisive rhetoric is rather counterproductive), but extending his term in office for so long is sure to corrupt him immensely.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Alex213]
    #5605246 - 05/08/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If he is such a great guy and a benevolent leader....why does he want to lock himself into power for the next 30 years?


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Alex213]
    #5605254 - 05/08/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

alex123 said:
"the people of Venezuela love chavez"........


Democracy at risk

Venezuela's ChÁvez is shackling the press

April 5, 2006

Press in peril:

Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez and his leftist “Bolivarian Revolution” are throttling that oil-rich country's free press. Half a dozen Latin countries have turned moderately left in recent years but only Venezuela, so far, is moving to silence press criticism and stifle dissent.

Chávez, a crude populist and ex-army officer, sees his critics among Venezuela's newspapers and broadcast networks as bourgeois reactionaries out to sabotage his self-styled revolution. Much of the Venezuelan press sees itself as fighting a desperate battle to preserve the country's democratic institutions against a strong-armed president whose political hero is Fidel Castro.

At first, Chávez used demagoguery and denunciation against the press. Then he resorted to direct action, inciting street mobs to attack journalists and their press organizations. Chávez's incitement has prompted a series of assaults in which journalists have been beaten or threatened.

Now, Chávez and his government are moving systematically to undercut press freedoms and silence press criticism of his lurch leftward. A Venezuelan congress and judiciary effectively controlled by Chávez are enacting laws and regulations that criminalize dissent. “Social responsibility” laws are being used to impose de facto censorship on radio and television news and commentary. A tangle of new arbitrary laws, decrees, regulations and rules is being put in place to stifle press criticism and give Chávez and his revolution an ever freer ride in the media.

While Chávez's critics in the press are hounded and harassed, Chávez gets an average of 40 broadcast hours a week, unchallenged by critics, to harangue Venezuelans.

The new laws and regulations plus higher taxes and punitive fines amount to a neo-totalitarian infrastructure for muzzling Venezuela's once-vibrant press. In an ominous portent, the 100-year-old El Impulso newspaper of Barquisimeto, Venezuela, was arbitrarily closed and prevented from publishing by government tax collectors for a day last October.

Chávez's campaign to muzzle Venezuela's press is provoking strenuous protests from outraged Venezuelan journalists, publishers and broadcasters, plus an international who's who of press-freedom defenders: the Inter American Press Association, Reporters Without Borders, Human Rights Watch, the Institute for Defense of Journalists and the International Association of Radio Broadcasters. In addition, the Organization of American States' Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has signaled its disapproval.

More must be done, by human rights groups and democratic nations in the Western Hemisphere especially, if Chávez is to be deterred from even worse transgressions against the rights of all Venezuelans to a free press. If press freedoms in Venezuela are completely extinguished, what's left of Venezuela's democracy won't be far behind.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060405/news_lz1ed5bottom.html



I wonder why they love him so much :rolleyes:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5605311 - 05/08/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
If he is such a great guy and a benevolent leader....why does he want to lock himself into power for the next 30 years?




perhaps he does not have faith in the intelligence of his people

perhaps he is worried they may elect a leader that would be worse than himself

perhaps.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5605411 - 05/08/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

heh, he actually reminds me more of Bush than Che.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5605444 - 05/08/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If he is such a great guy and a benevolent leader....why does he want to lock himself into power for the next 30 years?



Well, lets get the facts straight first. As usual Phred completly misrepresented the reality of the situation. What Chavez said was:

[b]"I would consider signing a decree to hold a referendum asking `Do you agree Chavez should be allowed to seek a new term in 2013?' and let's let the people decide, Maybe I won't be leaving the presidency in 2013, but in 2019, and then six more years would be 2025; six more would be 2031"

That means every 6 years he'll hold elections. And if he keeps winning the elections every 6 years then he could be in power until 2031. Nothing to do with being a dictator.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5605477 - 05/08/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

perhaps he is worried they may elect a leader that would be worse than himself


He'll be holding elections every 6 years. The people can elect whoever they like.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: gregorio]
    #5605487 - 05/08/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

He feels their love so much that explains why he is scared to put his power up to a vote on a regular basis.


As I've pointed out he'll be putting himself to the vote every 6 years just the same as now.

Phred sure managed to mislead a lot of you with this thread.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Alex213]
    #5605491 - 05/08/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Could we have a source for that quote from Chavez, Alex213? Because it is not a quote from the article I linked.

If anyone is "misrepresenting" what Chavez said, it was the AP staff writer who submitted the article.



Phred


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Phred]
    #5605531 - 05/08/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

this is truly a war on information.  :frown:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Phred]
    #5605688 - 05/08/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The statement Alex213 provided was from February 19 of this year, made during Chavez's weekly radio broadcast. The broadcast on Feb 19 was six hours long. I don't know if they are all as long as that. It was the same broadcast where he warned US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice not to "mess with me, girl!"

Either the AP writer of the article Yahoo ran missed part of his May 6 stadium speech or in the stadium speech Chavez neglected to mention the part about being re-elected over and over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4731742.stm



Phred


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Phred]
    #5605865 - 05/08/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If I was paying 12 cents a gallon for gas, I would vote for him too!


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Phred]
    #5605874 - 05/08/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
The broadcast on Feb 19 was six hours long.




Weird. Why do these Latin American Leftist leaders like to talk for hours upon hours? It was common for Castro to talk for hours at rallies (I guess he doesn't do it anymore because of his failing health).


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5606244 - 05/08/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well when you have more to say than "no comment" then its only natural. And anything worth being said, is worth being explained in detail. I think its funny our politicians throw buzz words out for an hour or two and ride.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Alex213]
    #5607158 - 05/09/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Bear in mind he's asking people to vote on this. If they don't want it, they don't vote for it and it doesn't happen.




My god, you're such a hypocrite.

And nice job on that quote. Made me laugh  :laugh:


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Phred]
    #5607336 - 05/09/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Either the AP writer of the article Yahoo ran missed part of his May 6 stadium speech or in the stadium speech Chavez neglected to mention the part about being re-elected over and over.


I thought you'd assured us that AP was run by a bunch of leftists? How come they're running misleading stories about Chavez?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: d33p]
    #5607339 - 05/09/06 01:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

My god, you're such a hypocrite.

And nice job on that quote. Made me laugh


Come again?  :confused:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Chavez... gotta love the guy [Re: Alex213]
    #5607714 - 05/09/06 07:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

How come they're running misleading stories about Chavez?




Maybe the story is not misleading at all. Maybe his words were reported correctly by the AP writer. It is entirely possible that Chavez in his most recent speech said nothing about being re-elected multiple times in order to rule till 2031.




Phred


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