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 Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo
Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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 Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity  [Re: Alex213]
#5336727 - 02/25/06 12:50 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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So you totally ignore the creation of the Federal Reserve? Do you believe that government granted cartels which control the money supply and credit have absolutely no bearing on the economic activity of those who use the money? Would you say that such government controlled power granted to an elite minority is somehow laissez-faire?
Do I know you? I dated a girl named Alex once, and she too was totally unable to grasp basic ideas that were laid out in front of her because she was so deeply entrenched in her narrow view of the world that nothing, absolutely nothing, facts, figures, history, mathematics or physics could sway her from the notions that she had gulped down in her ignorant early school years at the knees of her professors. What she swallowed, she accepted as her own, incorporating it into her very being as if she had thought of it herself... defending it as if it were an offspring heaved from her abdomen.
God, I loved that woman... in a carnal way. Empty heads give the best head.
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Sincerely,
Skeptikos
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 Silversoul
Rhizome
 
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Skeptikos]
#5336806 - 02/25/06 01:13 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Skeptikos said:
So you totally ignore the creation of the Federal Reserve? Do you believe that government granted cartels which control the money supply and credit have absolutely no bearing on the economic activity of those who use the money? Would you say that such government controlled power granted to an elite minority is somehow laissez-faire?
I don't doubt that the Fed may have had something to do with the Great Depression, but I think it would be equally foolish to ignore the unchecked power of business in those days.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo
Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Silversoul]
#5336852 - 02/25/06 01:33 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who was extending easy credit to the businesses? Were there incentives provided in the form of discounted credit? Does easy money tend to make people more carefree or more prudent with their expenditures? How do technological innovations effect transitions in production and investment (there were an awful lot at the turn of the century) ? If the government undertakes actions to promote business, is this laissez faire or is it corporatism? Isn't one of the reasons given for the existence of the Fed, to insure economic productivity or promote upswings in the economy when business cycles are down? Can natural cycles (such as business cycles) be augmented, increasing both peaks and troughs?
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Sincerely,
Skeptikos
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Skeptikos]
#5336892 - 02/25/06 01:45 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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You won't find me arguing that we had a pure laissez faire system back then. But I also happen to think Keynes was onto something. Of course, he didn't quite hit the nail on the head the way Robert Anton Wilson did:
"The right-wing view of government and the left-wing view of big business are both correct."
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Skeptikos]
#5337154 - 02/25/06 04:30 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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So you totally ignore the creation of the Federal Reserve?
I don't ignore it, I just don't try and hide behind it in order to ignore the wealth of other evidence that points to failings in the free-market system.
Empty heads give the best head
Are you upset? Or do you still think you are talking to your mother?
Main Causes of the Great Depression
The Great Depression was the worst economic slump ever in U.S. history, and one which spread to virtually all of the industrialized world. The depression began in late 1929 and lasted for about a decade. Many factors played a role in bringing about the depression; however, the main cause for the Great Depression was the combination of the greatly unequal distribution of wealth throughout the 1920's, and the extensive stock market speculation that took place during the latter part that same decade. The maldistribution of wealth in the 1920's existed on many levels. Money was distributed disparately between the rich and the middle-class, between industry and agriculture within the United States, and between the U.S. and Europe. This imbalance of wealth created an unstable economy. The excessive speculation in the late 1920's kept the stock market artificially high, but eventually lead to large market crashes. These market crashes, combined with the maldistribution of wealth, caused the American economy to capsize.
The "roaring twenties" was an era when our country prospered tremendously. The nation's total realized income rose from $74.3 billion in 1923 to $89 billion in 19291. However, the rewards of the "Coolidge Prosperity" of the 1920's were not shared evenly among all Americans. According to a study done by the Brookings Institute, in 1929 the top 0.1% of Americans had a combined income equal to the bottom 42%2. That same top 0.1% of Americans in 1929 controlled 34% of all savings, while 80% of Americans had no savings at all3. Automotive industry mogul Henry Ford provides a striking example of the unequal distribution of wealth between the rich and the middle-class. Henry Ford reported a personal income of $14 million4 in the same year that the average personal income was $7505. By present day standards, where the average yearly income in the U.S. is around $18,5006, Mr. Ford would be earning over $345 million a year! This maldistribution of income between the rich and the middle class grew throughout the 1920's. While the disposable income per capita rose 9% from 1920 to 1929, those with income within the top 1% enjoyed a stupendous 75% increase in per capita disposable income7.
A major reason for this large and growing gap between the rich and the working-class people was the increased manufacturing output throughout this period. From 1923-1929 the average output per worker increased 32% in manufacturing8. During that same period of time average wages for manufacturing jobs increased only 8%9. Thus wages increased at a rate one fourth as fast as productivity increased. As production costs fell quickly, wages rose slowly, and prices remained constant, the bulk benefit of the increased productivity went into corporate profits. In fact, from 1923-1929 corporate profits rose 62% and dividends rose 65%
http://www.gusmorino.com/pag3/greatdepression/
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Alex213]
#5338014 - 02/25/06 01:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alex, the fucking linkage comedy continues unabated. Huppi.com. A total nobody. His "expert" assessment of the Depression looks like an essay from economics 101. gusmorino is even better
"Gusmorino, Paul A., III. "Main Causes of the Great Depression." Gusmorino World (May 13, 1996). Online. Internet: http://www.gusmorino.com/pag3/great_depression/index.html. TODAY'S DATE."
He has bibliography of about 6 sources and they look like they might be textbooks. This doesn't even look like a college paper. It's high school.
This is what PinochiAl uses for sources of "expert" opinion. Roommates.
Always check Alex's links. They tend to be somewhat less than authoritative and usually hilarious.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5338021 - 02/25/06 01:34 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then you should have no trouble refuting their arguments instead of blowing it out your ass as usual.
Please do so.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Alex213]
#5338087 - 02/25/06 02:02 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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The ass exhaust is yours, my friend, and yours alone. You made certain assertions which you backed up with linkages to high school term papers. Very funny. Skeptikos, on the other hand, has pretty much kicked your fraudulent ass.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5344292 - 02/27/06 06:03 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can you refute a single point? Or are you all mouth and gutwind?
I think I already know 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Alex213]
#5345799 - 02/27/06 03:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fine, I'll take one line from your roommate Gusmorino's term paper
"The "roaring twenties" was an era when our country prospered tremendously. The nation's total realized income rose from $74.3 billion in 1923 to $89 billion in 1929."
Hmmmmmm. A 20% increase in 6 years. That's slightly more than 2%, when compounded, per annum. Let's call it 2.5%, to be generous. That doesn't strike me as particularly tremendous prosperity seeing as how we're ticking along in the 3 to 4% range for the last couple years of the "Bush depression".
You cite some kid's term paper as authoritative on the causes of the Depression? Are you gusmorino? Or Huppi? Or lazy? That's all the response you'll get from me. Skeptikos already stole your lunch and sent you home with wet pants. You're just so used to it you can't tell anymore.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5348163 - 02/28/06 02:25 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Come again?
"The "roaring twenties" was an era when our country prospered tremendously. The nation's total realized income rose from $74.3 billion in 1923 to $89 billion in 1929."
Which part of this statement is incorrect?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Alex213]
#5349057 - 02/28/06 11:57 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"prospered tremendously"
2.5% annual growth is not exactly kick ass.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5349136 - 02/28/06 12:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually, to go from 74.3 to 89.0 in six years would take an average annual growth rate of around 3.05%, not 2.5%.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: Phred]
#5349494 - 02/28/06 01:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Incorrect Phred, with compounding it's around 2.5%
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5349505 - 02/28/06 01:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd like to agree with you , but sadly I cannot. Check your math.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5349538 - 02/28/06 01:56 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck it, you are right. Still less than the growth during the current Bush Depression.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo
Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky: Venezuela is an Example of True Solidarity [Re: zappaisgod]
#5350456 - 02/28/06 05:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Current estimates of growth are questionable. GDP is really a measure of economic activity, not productivity. Indeed, if everyone one is furiously downsizing (trading down to cheaper houses and cars) the GDP figures would include each transaction as an increase in GDP. It's really designed to make the government look good. Similarly, core CPI figures currently exclude food and fuel, when these prices are rising. When prices are falling for food and fuel, they will then be counted in the CPI. In March, the M3 figures will no longer be published, this indicator has shown monetary inflation to be running at full gallop. Not publishing these figures will serve to make it harder for investors in dollar based instruments to make decisions that may lead them to dump the dollar should the M3 have provided the signals.
We would all be wise to treat any information coming from the government like we would information coming from used car salesmen, used car salesmen with a history of dishonesty.
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Sincerely,
Skeptikos
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