ApostleofAzathoth said:

Bubbles85 said:

ApostleofAzathoth said:

Although the private sector's share in the economy has indeed grown since 1990, the majority of the economy is still in the public sector.

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Have you got a link to show exactly what percentage of the economy is controlled by the government? Because I don't believe this to be true.

ApostleofAzathoth said:

China does not have a free market economy

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Regarding the PEW poll (which I assume this is in response to?) I should have said Free Trade.
In any case, China is far from the command economy of out right Socialism that it used to be before the 1980's.
Government reform to state owned enterprise, privatisation and the emergence of the market economy have seen China's economic model transform dramatically.
The implementation of the above, like it or not, has seen 800 million Chinese people lifted from poverty and China emerge from a piss poor state with a GDP on par with Zambia 3 decades back, to the Worlds second largest economy today.

Seems pretty fair to say that China's success is not down to Socialism.

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You have provided by far the most compelling argument in this thread. Thanks for being one of the adults in the room. I don't actually know what the private sectors share of the economy is in 2017, but in 2011 was still less than half.

https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/10_26_11_CapitalTradeSOEStudy.pdf

You might be interested in the below report from the National Bureau of Economic Research, the conclusions of which run contrary to your claim. It's a bit long and technical so I wouldn't blame you if you didn't have the time. I certainly don't have the time to break it down into a forum post.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w21397.pdf

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qman said:

A mix of capitalism and a state that provides a vast amount of social services for its citizens has proven to bring the best results, the evidence is right in front of you today.

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With out a doubt the best possible system!

The Ecstatic said:

Capitalism is great because democracy should extend to everywhere except where it matters most: the economy.

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Bubbles85 said:

qman said:

A mix of capitalism and a state that provides a vast amount of social services for its citizens has proven to bring the best results, the evidence is right in front of you today.

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With out a doubt the best possible system!

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qman said:

Are China and Vietnam performing better or worse after the economic reforms?  Isn't that the whole point of the discussion? 

I think the evidence is beyond clear for China, why did they do the reforms in the first place?

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Are China and Vietnam performing better or worse after the economic reforms?  Isn't that the whole point of the discussion? 

I think the evidence is beyond clear for China, why did they do the reforms in the first place?

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The reforms didn't convert China from a Socialist country to a Capitalist one.  The state still retains strict controls over business and owns a majority of all the largest corporations there.

Just as you suggested a mix of capitalism with a little socialism is best, China feels socialism with a little capitalism is best.

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qman said:

Massive growth in exports since the year 2000, largest in the world.

China 2nd largest stock market in world.

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qman said:

everyone knows the state is still heavily involved in businesses, maybe that should be called crony capitalism at this point instead of "state socialism".

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qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

Capitalism is great because democracy should extend to everywhere except where it matters most: the economy.

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That's why capitalism needs to be regulated to benefit the most people as possible.  Unfortunately, that regulation only comes when it comes to desperate circumstances.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Massive growth in exports since the year 2000, largest in the world.

China 2nd largest stock market in world.

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And?

China has a Socialist market economy

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Malouz said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Malouz said:

He's working on an idea of his country closer to the "Great Russia" before the october revolution.

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That's news to me.  Source?

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Have you literally never watched any of his speeches ? I'm not on the same meridian here but I can give some examples tomorrow.

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Yes, I've watched many of his speeches which is why I'm surprised, so I look forward to your examples tomorrow (which I'll bet never appear). 

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Anyone want to bet Malouz can't find the Putin speeches about moving "his country closer to the 'Great Russia' before the october revolution"? 

What Putin actually said is that he doesn't want to celebrate the revolution because his country has moved on to capitalism, and that he would he would like to see Russia return to its former superpower status that it had before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Massive growth in exports since the year 2000, largest in the world.

China 2nd largest stock market in world.

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And?

China has a Socialist market economy

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www.australiachinarelations.org/content/china’s-economy-state-versus-private

"the private sector now produces at least two-thirds of China's GDP"

"2014...new jobs. More than 90 percent were created in the private sector"

https://www.export.gov/article?id=China-State-Owned-Enterprises

"SOE's, both central and local, account for 30 to 40 percent of total GDP and about 20 percent of China's total employment"

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/07/21/scandinavia-leads-the-world-in-public-sector-employment-infographic/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

"US...15.3%"

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The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

Capitalism is great because democracy should extend to everywhere except where it matters most: the economy.

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That's why capitalism needs to be regulated to benefit the most people as possible.  Unfortunately, that regulation only comes when it comes to desperate circumstances.

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Why dont we create a system thats not based on exploitation, and then tirelessly work to contain that exploitation...

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Massive growth in exports since the year 2000, largest in the world.

China 2nd largest stock market in world.

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And?

China has a Socialist market economy

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www.australiachinarelations.org/content/china’s-economy-state-versus-private

"the private sector now produces at least two-thirds of China's GDP"

"2014...new jobs. More than 90 percent were created in the private sector"

https://www.export.gov/article?id=China-State-Owned-Enterprises

"SOE's, both central and local, account for 30 to 40 percent of total GDP and about 20 percent of China's total employment"

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/07/21/scandinavia-leads-the-world-in-public-sector-employment-infographic/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

"US...15.3%"

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Yes, I already know all that.

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Then why are we having this discussion? 

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Because you're arguing with the CIA Factbook, Wikipedia, and other sources that says China isn't a capitalist country.

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qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

Capitalism is great because democracy should extend to everywhere except where it matters most: the economy.

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That's why capitalism needs to be regulated to benefit the most people as possible.  Unfortunately, that regulation only comes when it comes to desperate circumstances.

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Why dont we create a system thats not based on exploitation, and then tirelessly work to contain that exploitation...

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That sounds good to me, who's in charge of making sure no exploitation takes place?

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