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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? * 1
    #24615168 -

There used to be great materialist vs. idealist debates on here, but the champions of the materialist side (OC, Icelander, Ped) have all gone.

Did the materialists lose?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #24615261 -

They are still here, in a more subtle form.


Edited by Hobozen (09/09/17 05:56 AM)

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: viktor] * 3
    #24615312 -

Well there's your problem.



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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Hobozen] * 1
    #24615319 -

I definitely feel like there has been a shift on the shroomery over the last few years, with the materialists seeming to have a much smaller voice.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Peyote Road] * 1
    #24615320 -

You darn vitalists! Get off my lawn :shakefist:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Peyote Road] * 1
    #24615323 -

Peyote Road said:
I definitely feel like there has been a shift on the shroomery over the last few years, with the materialists seeming to have a much smaller voice.


Yeah, I've been trying to undermine their empty philosophy for years :lol:

not saying it was me, but i tried

Edited by Hobozen (09/09/17 07:33 AM)

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #24615358 -

viktor said:
There used to be great materialist vs. idealist debates on here, but the champions of the materialist side (OC, Icelander, Ped) have all gone.

Did the materialists lose?


Yeah it seems much quieter in here now, what happen to those guys and diploid?

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Hobozen] * 1
    #24615359 -

some consider me a materialist:
I have a high respect for immaterial states of mind, but I consider those states proof of an underlying material process that enables memory and consciousness as energy patterns in the cerebral cortex, not proof of god.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #24615378 -

redgreenvines said:
some consider me a materialist:
I have a high respect for immaterial states of mind, but I consider those states proof of an underlying material process that enables memory and consciousness as energy patterns in the cerebral cortex, not proof of god.


But do you think all phenomena has an underlying material process?

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #24615391 -

redgreenvines said:
some consider me a materialist:
I have a high respect for immaterial states of mind, but I consider those states proof of an underlying material process that enables memory and consciousness as energy patterns in the cerebral cortex, not proof of god.


What is material? What is god? What are dimensions of consciousness? We don't have an agreeable definition of these terms, so how can we proceed with this conversation?

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #24615505 -

What is left is a bewildered frat homeostasis.

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #24615513 -

teknix said:
...
But do you think all phenomena has an underlying material process?


yes, do you believe in magnetism and electric fields?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #24615528 -

What about like free will.

Is there an underlying process that determines and could predict all of my actions in accordance with the sum of my lifes experiences?

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #24615550 -

You seriously think these questions have any integrity without decades or research and corrobaration.

The hats I wear are miniscule in delinquency to the essayist pretend snobs.

Edited by Jaegar (09/09/17 10:57 AM)

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Hobozen] * 1
    #24615553 -

Hobozen said:
...

What is material? What is god? What are dimensions of consciousness? We don't have an agreeable definition of these terms, so how can we proceed with this conversation?


I admit it is a problem that some word definitions are loose and misleading. the conversation is not advanced, but it can begin, and when it begins we struggle to define terms.

'material' so far relates to that which is measurable using standardized measurement tools.

'god' is a spirit or force that pervades everything - not material unless it is all matter and all material processes taken together.

'dimensions' are measurable extensions from a point.

'consciousness' equates with mind, includes experience and memories, ehibits a sense of streaming or 'stream of consciousness' and is different in different 'states of mind'

'mind states' in science typically is loose and refers to any configuration or state that the brain may be in at any moment while

'states of mind' usually can apply consistently to ordinary waking, sleeping, dreaming, variously stoned and emotional 'states of mind' - for consistency I have found that these states of mind have a high correlation with the SALVIA states of mind, and that there is a smooth transition between all of them.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #24615564 -

teknix said:
What about like free will.

Is there an underlying process that determines and could predict all of my actions in accordance with the sum of my lifes experiences?


'predict' - unfortunately, no. because that would involve modeling that also needs to include the entirety of the universe.

'Is there an underlying process' that mediates all reactions - yes, the term 'determine' is not apt, since 'determining' implies agency, and there is not any agency within beings separate from themselves as individuals.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #24615572 -

Nada.

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Jaegar] * 1
    #24615573 -

Jaegar said:
You seriously think these questions have any integrity without decades or research and corrobaration.

The hats I wear are miniscule in delinquency to the essayist pretend snobs.


don't minimize your own ability to think, but do select words that most closely match the meanings that become established.
that is what I would remind researchers as well. when you use words loosely or equate things that are not equal, then the integrity of meaningful discussion is undermined.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #24615590 -

Affirmative but entertaining on in a Rausch Test way.

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Re: Have the Materialists been defeated on PS&P? [Re: Jaegar] * 1
    #24615607 -

the court jester, historically, was always prepared to literally lose his head, but the scraps of food and drink were better in royal company, so it was worth it as long as he could keep smiling.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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