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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Phred]
    #2279263 -

it's not about any specific quotes linking Saddam and 9/11

but there was a deliberate PR campaign to parlay the anger from 9/11 towards the goal of removing Saddam Hussein from power.
and no, I don't have any links proving this, but people here realize what happened.

let me ask you: how did 70% of Americans come to believe that Saddam was responsible for 9/11? did they come to this conclusion by themselves? or did they have a little "help"?

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Learyfan]
    #2279265 -

what's really funny is that even though the administration may not have directly said saddam and september 11th in the same breath, i have seen real americans on film saying that they think iraq "bombed" us on 9/11 and that saddam should be punished for 9/11.

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2279529 -

did they come to this conclusion by themselves? or did they have a little "help"?

Certainly the propaganda was incredibly effective. You can see by reading posts from the neocons on the board from before the war that they had been duped hook, line and sinker by the Bush propaganda on WMD. Posts about "tonnes of VX gas" and "Do you really think he destroyed them?".

Be interesting to see if being fooled so completely on this issue has made them question their beliefs on other issues.

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Learyfan]
    #2283494 -

I can find plenty of quotes where Bush implied, and at times stated that Saddam was linked to Al-Qaeda (and hence 9/11 by association), and also some where he implied connections between 9/11 and Hussein. He never actually came right out and said that Saddam did it, but take a look at his wording. Most of us saw the article that showed a poll where 7 out of 10 Americans thought that there was a Saddam-9/11 connection too. It looks to me like he didn't need to come out and say it, because people seem to have bought his spin anyway.

The war on terror, you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror. And so it's a comparison that is -- I can't make because I can't distinguish between the two, because they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive.
George W. Bush, President
Remarks By President Bush, The Oval Office
9/25/2002

We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases.
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

We could wait and hope that Saddam does not give weapons to terrorists, or develop a nuclear weapon to blackmail the world. But I'm convinced that is a hope against all evidence
George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

we need to think about Saddam Hussein using al Qaeda to do his dirty work, to not leave fingerprints behind.
George W. Bush, President
Remarks by the President in Michigan Welcome
10/14/2002

He's got connections with al Qaeda.
George W. Bush, President
Remarks by the President in Colorado Welcome
10/28/2002

And, not only that, he is -- would like nothing better than to hook-up with one of these shadowy terrorist networks like al Qaeda, provide some weapons and training to them, let them come and do his dirty work, and we wouldn't be able to see his fingerprints on his action.
George W. Bush, President
Remarks by the President in South Dakota Welcome
11/3/2002

Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda.
George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Speech
1/28/2003

Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes.
...
The United States will ask the U.N. Security Council to convene on February the 5th to consider the facts of Iraq's ongoing defiance of the world. Secretary of State Powell will present information and intelligence about Iraqi's legal -- Iraq's illegal weapons programs, its attempt to hide those weapons from inspectors, and its links to terrorist groups.

George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Speech
1/28/2003

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the "beginning of the end of America." By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed.
...
The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more.

In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused and deliberate and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th -- the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got.

George W. Bush, President
USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN

(Many of those quotes were found on this page.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Edame]
    #2283559 -

I'd like to hear Pinksharkmark explain how those quotes aren't as good as coming out and saying Saddam was involved with 9-11.

He might as well have just said it.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Learyfan]
    #2283862 -

Are you guys reading stuff into those quotes that aren't there? I see no mention that Hussein was involved with 9-11. As a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, when asked directly by a reporter several months ago, said he had no evidence that Hussein was involved in the 9-11 attacks. There was quite a stir in the press and in this forum over that remark, which I personally found surprising. This was news?

All Bush says is that Hussein aided and protected terrorists (he did), and that terrorists would love to get their hands on some of the chem and bio materials Hussein was known to have. How does this equate to saying Hussein was behind 9-11?

pinky


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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Phred]
    #2283941 -

skillful propoganda is rarely so blunt

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Phred]
    #2283976 -

Come on Pinky, don't you recognize propaganda when you see it?

It is readily apparent that the Bush administration and the media sycophants (you know, all those reporters who want the 'exclusives' from the white house or get fat off of 'off the record' info given to them by 'unnamed sources') had been working the propaganda machine overtime. The purpose of propaganda is not necessarily to state a specific position, but to get the masses to support a particular action or policy. To think that Bush, his administration personnel and the neo-con mouthpieces in the media did not purposefully make statements designed to get the general populace to believe that Saddam Hussein was a terrorist threat to the U.S. and that he had supported Al Qaeda demonstrates either naivete or serious case of denial.

Addendum: please consider the term 'plausible deniability' and how it relates to the rhetoric used by those who were beating the drums for war.



--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (01/29/04 02:57 PM)

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Phred]
    #2284008 -

Well I already said that he didn't directly implicate Saddam, what I'm trying to point out is a deliberate (IMHO) use of language to imply a connection that isn't there.

I also think you're being very selective with the quotes you mention. Bush doesn't just mention 'terrorists' in a vague sense, he constantly refers to al-Qaeda, who we all know claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. Therefore there is likely to be a subconcious connection between al-qaeda and 9/11, the two are linked in the public's mind. Bush plainly states that he can see no difference between Saddam and the al-qaeda organisation (ie the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks).

look at quotes like "Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained." There is no connection here, the 9/11 attacks have nothing to do with Hussein's 'containment', and yet Bush mentions them in the same breath as if they are related.

Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein.
This one's rather blatant.

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on.
And yet another link is made that equates Iraq with 9/11 when no such link exists.

It's this constant usage of Iraq or Saddam in connection with 9/11 and al-qaeda that I'm trying to point out. Bush's speeches are carefully written and checked, this linking of two seperate things, in my opinion, is deliberately aimed to mislead (especially in a culture so obsessed with 'soundbites').


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Phred]
    #2284387 -

Quote:
How does this equate to saying Hussein was behind 9-11?





9/11 link

Where did these people get that idea from I wonder?


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: Edame]
    #2286017 -

Think you've hit the nail on the head there Edame. That's how propaganda works. You don't say "I am 100% certain Saddam was behind 9/11", you put Saddam and al-qaeda together in sentences, you link "terrorism" and "Saddam" and let people think about it. (And of course your neglect to mention that the US has supported and harbours more terrorists than Saddam has ever done)

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Re: Excuses for "Operation Iraqi Liberation" [Re: GazzBut]
    #2291244 -

Bumped for pinky!


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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