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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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 Re: March On Washington (September 24th)  [Re: Learyfan]
#4612920 - 09/02/05 03:10 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Cindy Sheehan, my personal God, will be at the protest.
Can I ask you something Zappa? Is there any point at which you would protest a war or at which you would back someone who was opposing the war? Or do you stand behind the government no matter what?
I had very serious and loud issues with the asinine experiment in Vietnam. And not strictly as a self interested draft issue, it was over a few years before they could have gotten me. I just thought it was ill considered and still do. Fucking disaster. Zero possible gain. This is very different, in my opinion, for reasons you have heard me express numerous times.
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 Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Sycronica]
#4612922 - 09/02/05 03:10 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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all he can do is copy/paste. dont worry about him, although I often wonder why someone like lonestar who would so quickly lick on Bush's taint for invading Iraq isnt over there fighting himself.
*cough*chickenhawk*cough.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Sycronica]
#4612928 - 09/02/05 03:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sycronica said:
I don't care what that legal mumbo jumbo says. FACT is bush told ME on the tv that we were going into iraq because his WMD could be sold to terrorists and we had to get controll of the WMD before it got into the wrong hands.
Well guess what, THERE WAS NO WMD. That = lies. I don't care what you can dig up to say otherwise. I lived through this.
Republican apologists 
FACTS....
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/clinton.iraq.sotu/index.html
votes that authorized the use of force in Iraq:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...&vote=00237
passed 77 to 23
*note: if every Democrat Senator had voted Nay, the vote would have been 52 to 48 against!
Senators voted NAY:
Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Chafee (R-RI), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Jeffords (I-VT), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT),
Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), Wyden (D-OR)
Democrat Senators voted YEA(29):
Lincoln(D-AR), Feinstein(D-CA), Dodd(D-CT), Lieberman(D-CT), Biden(D-DE), Carper(D-DE), Nelson(D-FL), Cleland(D-GA), Harkin(D-IA), Bayh(D-IN), Breaux(D-LA), Landrieu(D-LA), Kerry(D-MA), Carnahan(D-MO), Baucas(D-MT),
Edwards(D-NC), Dorgan(D-ND), Nelson(D-NE), Torricelli(D-NJ), Reid(D-NV), Clinton(D-NY), Schumer(D-NY), Hollings(D-SC), Daschle(D-SD), Johnson(D-SD), Cantwell(D-WA), Kohl(D-WI), Rockefeller(D-WV)
THAT VOTING RECORD IS EVEN MORE AMUSING WHEN COMPARED TO THE VOTES ON THE FIRST GULF WAR, THE ONE THE UNITED NATIONS MANDATED! You'll notice that the vote was much closer, almost as if some of the same Senators who didn't trust Bush Sr. decided to trust Bush Jr.
1-12-1991
S.J.Res.2; Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...&vote=00002
(passed by a vote of 52 to 47)
YEAs:
Bond (R-MO), Breaux (D-LA), Brown (R-CO), Bryan (D-NV), Burns (R-MT), Chafee (R-RI), Coats (R-IN), Cochran (R-MS), Cohen (R-ME), Craig (R-ID), D'Amato (R-NY), Danforth (R-MO), Dole (R-KS), Domenici (R-NM), Durenberger (R-MN), Garn (R-UT), Gore (D-TN), Gorton (R-WA), Graham (D-FL), Gramm (R-TX), Hatch (R-UT), Heflin (D-AL), Heinz (R-PA), Helms (R-NC), Jeffords (R-VT), Johnston (D-LA), Kassebaum (R-KS),
Kasten (R-WI), Lieberman (D-CT), Lott (R-MS), Lugar (R-IN), Mack (R-FL), McCain (R-AZ), McConnell (R-KY), Murkowski (R-AK), Nickles (R-OK), Packwood (R-OR), Pressler (R-SD), Reid (D-NV), Robb (D-VA), Roth (R-DE), Rudman (R-NH),
Seymour (R-CA), Shelby (D-AL), Simpson (R-WY), Smith (R-NH), Specter (R-PA), Stevens (R-AK), Symms (R-ID), Thurmond (R-SC), Wallop (R-WY), Warner (R-VA)
NAYs:
Adams (D-WA), Akaka (D-HI), Baucus (D-MT), Bentsen (D-TX), Biden (D-DE), Bingaman (D-NM), Boren (D-OK), Bradley (D-NJ), Bumpers (D-AR), Burdick (D-ND),Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Daschle (D-SD), DeConcini (D-AZ), Dixon (D-IL),
Dodd (D-CT), Exon (D-NE), Ford (D-KY), Fowler (D-GA), Glenn (D-OH), Grassley (R-IA), Harkin (D-IA), Hatfield (R-OR), Hollings (D-SC), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA),
Kerrey (D-NE), Kerry (D-MA), Kohl (D-WI), Lautenberg (D-NJ), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Metzenbaum (D-OH), Mikulski (D-MD), Mitchell (D-ME), Moynihan (D-NY),
Nunn (D-GA), Pell (D-RI), Pryor (D-AR), Riegle (D-MI), Rockefeller (D-WV), Sanford (D-NC), Sarbanes (D-MD), Sasser (D-TN), Simon (D-IL), Wellstone (D-MN), Wirth (D-CO)
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Vvellum]
#4612938 - 09/02/05 03:13 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
all he can do is copy/paste. dont worry about him, although I often wonder why someone like lonestar who would so quickly lick on Bush's taint for invading Iraq isnt over there fighting himself.
*cough*chickenhawk*cough.
Copy/paste facts.
Fact overwhelms emotion, logic trumps feelings and the slug is soon gone.
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: lonestar2004]
#4612945 - 09/02/05 03:15 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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More salt
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Sycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: lonestar2004]
#4612969 - 09/02/05 03:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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So because congress stamped there ok on this war that makes WMD fact? I don't fucking thinks so. You act like anyone who opposes this war is in bed with the democrats. Sorry, I hate both parties. Only difference being as repubs are the LEADERS right now and have personally lied to me on the reasons for this war.
Pointing out the democrats voted for this doesn't make it any less of a lie. It just goes to show you that our whole govt was part of it. The only thing in this thread that has been fact that you have said was that it's a fact that these things did happen. The reason for the war is STILL and always will remain a lie. Your trying to hold water in a strainer.
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Think for yourself. Question authority.
Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.
You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Vvellum]
#4613028 - 09/02/05 03:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
all he can do is copy/paste. dont worry about him, although I often wonder why someone like lonestar who would so quickly lick on Bush's taint for invading Iraq isnt over there fighting himself.
*cough*chickenhawk*cough.
cough*chickenhawk*cough No Bio i have never been in the military.
so does that mean....
No one who could be and isn't serving should speak out on Iraq;
No one except women of child-bearing age should speak out on abortion;
No one who isn't poor should speak out on welfare;
No one who isn't in school should speak out on education;
No one who isn't (I can't decide on this one between 'a criminal' and 'a victim of crime') should speak out on criminal justice.
I have to go to work but i will think of some more examples.
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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MagicalMystery
turn off yourmind
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Learyfan]
#4613088 - 09/02/05 03:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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What do you think we should do? Just pull the troops out of Iraq? That sounds like a well-thought out plan. If, of course, the person thinking it up was Osama bin-Laden.
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 "Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest." From the Declaration of the Continental Congress "We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood." Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939 "We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children." David Lane
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,213
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 41 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: lonestar2004]
#4613102 - 09/02/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
so does that mean....
No one who could be and isn't serving should speak out on Iraq;
No one except women of child-bearing age should speak out on abortion;
No one who isn't poor should speak out on welfare;
No one who isn't in school should speak out on education;
No one who isn't (I can't decide on this one between 'a criminal' and 'a victim of crime') should speak out on criminal justice.
Those are bad examples. You will never be a child-bearing woman. You aren't poor. Education and criminal justice effect everyone.
You are, however, in a position where you could join the military to fight this war which you consider SO important and which you defend daily. Put your money where your mouth is.
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--------------------------------
Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,213
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 41 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: MagicalMystery]
#4613121 - 09/02/05 03:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, let the UN take control. It couldn't be any worse than what's going on now.
Don't worry about Bin Laden. If we thought he was a threat we would have actually gone after him.
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Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Learyfan]
#4613167 - 09/02/05 04:04 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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When you're simple, you're simple. Walking, chewing gum, some people can do them simultaneously. Tell me again what OBL has done in the last 4 years. What was that? Can you say neutralized. Move on to the next one. Don't stop there. Go after the next, and the next, and the next. Are you a fry cook?
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Cowgold
Bullshit
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: zappaisgod]
#4613361 - 09/02/05 05:13 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can kill a cockroach with my shoe or I can kill it with a tank. We've been runnin the middle east over with tanks...
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: lonestar2004]
#4613406 - 09/02/05 05:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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My friend, I respect your opinion, and I respect your appreciation of facts, so allow me to present you with some.
The Bush administration has been so full of lies I'm rather surprised he remains our leader.
Heres an example:
Quote:
During her April 8, 2004 appearance before the 9/11 Commission, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice discussed the infamous Presidential Daily Brief of August 6, 2001. At the time, the document was still classified. We did, however, know the title: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike In US."
Rice was asked by commission member Richard Ben-Veniste: "Isn't it a fact, Dr. Rice, that the August 6 PDB warned against possible attacks in this country?"
Keeping in mind that Rice was under oath, read her reply:
"You said, did it not warn of attacks. It did not warn of attacks inside the United States. It was historical information based on old reporting. There was no new threat information. And it did not, in fact, warn of any coming attacks inside the United States."
...
Then she gets specific about how nonspecific the memo was: "But I can also tell you that there was nothing in this memo that suggested that an attack was coming on New York or Washington, D.C."
Two days later, the White House, under intense pressure, releases the PDB 99% uncensored. Some of it did discuss the past (the "historical information" part)...
This all builds up to the crescendo of the last two paragraphs, which explicitly warn that plots are underway:
...FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious acticity in this country consistent with preparations for hijacking or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.
The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full field investigations throughout the US that it considers Bin Ladin-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call our Embassy in the UAE [UNited Arab Emirates] in May saying that a group of Bin Ladin supporters was in the US planning attacks with explosives.
This is the "historical" memo that contained "no new threat information." The briefing that "did not warn of attacks inside the United States," certainly not anything about an attack on New York.
When mere mortals lie under oath, it's called perjury. When National Security Advisers lie under oath to Congressionally-mandated commissions, it's called...nothing, really. Because no one mentions it.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: lonestar2004]
#4614192 - 09/02/05 09:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are a cowardly pundit and would rather send others to do what you believe in. If the Iraq invasion is so noble, why are you not participating? Why do you put the burden on others?
Enlist or continue to be a chickenhawk.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Vvellum]
#4625112 - 09/06/05 10:35 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
You are a cowardly pundit and would rather send others to do what you believe in. If the Iraq invasion is so noble, why are you not participating? Why do you put the burden on others?
Enlist or continue to be a chickenhawk.
Bio facts = namecalling. "logic to feelings".
nothing left to argue so he gets personal.
Fact overwhelms emotion, logic trumps feelings and the slug is soon gone.
--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Sycronica]
#4625147 - 09/06/05 10:50 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sycronica said:
Quote:
BleaK said:
Quote:
Sycronica said:
I'd go if it wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg to drive there.
almost ironic.
What is ironic about not being able to afford $3+ a gallon x how many galons it would take me to drive 10hrs?
I believe he was alluding to the fact that it DOES cost the American troops an arm and a leg to do what you are too Scroogish to spend money on to protest.
The troops are willing to risk an arm or a leg for their beliefs, but you are not willing to spend $3 to fight for yours.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Vvellum]
#4625203 - 09/06/05 11:02 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
You are a cowardly pundit and would rather send others to do what you believe in. If the Iraq invasion is so noble, why are you not participating? Why do you put the burden on others?
Enlist or continue to be a chickenhawk.
The chickenhawk insult is so overplayed (and that's coming from a liberal).
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1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: daimyo]
#4625634 - 09/06/05 12:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The troops are willing to risk an arm or a leg for their beliefs, but you are not willing to spend $3 to fight for yours.
And what belief is it that the troops are loosing arms and legs and heads for?
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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.
There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Sycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: daimyo]
#4625754 - 09/06/05 01:33 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
daimyo said:
Quote:
Sycronica said:
Quote:
BleaK said:
Quote:
Sycronica said:
I'd go if it wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg to drive there.
almost ironic.
What is ironic about not being able to afford $3+ a gallon x how many galons it would take me to drive 10hrs?
I believe he was alluding to the fact that it DOES cost the American troops an arm and a leg to do what you are too Scroogish to spend money on to protest.
The troops are willing to risk an arm or a leg for their beliefs, but you are not willing to spend $3 to fight for yours.
I am in complete awe of your math skills. You are saying that it only costs $3 to get enough gas to drive over 10hrs? Are you a math professor? Absolute genius!
There are many, many types of people. Some have plenty of finanical security to up and take a weekend trip anytime they please. While there are much more of us who cannot afford to spend $500+ to take off and drive 10hrs to attend a protest. I really wish I could, but unfortunately I have other giant sponges that take my money instead...have you ever heard of them? Those things called BILLS?
--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.
Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.
You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: March On Washington (September 24th) [Re: Sycronica]
#4625786 - 09/06/05 01:47 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
1stimer said:
Quote:
The troops are willing to risk an arm or a leg for their beliefs, but you are not willing to spend $3 to fight for yours.
And what belief is it that the troops are loosing arms and legs and heads for?
I cannot speak on behalf of the troops. There are a lot of military blogs out there. Go to them and ask what belief it is they are fighting for.
Quote:
Sycronica said:
Quote:
daimyo said:
Quote:
Sycronica said:
Quote:
BleaK said:
Quote:
Sycronica said:
I'd go if it wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg to drive there.
almost ironic.
What is ironic about not being able to afford $3+ a gallon x how many galons it would take me to drive 10hrs?
I believe he was alluding to the fact that it DOES cost the American troops an arm and a leg to do what you are too Scroogish to spend money on to protest.
The troops are willing to risk an arm or a leg for their beliefs, but you are not willing to spend $3 to fight for yours.
I am in complete awe of your math skills. You are saying that it only costs $3 to get enough gas to drive over 10hrs? Are you a math professor? Absolute genius!
Hook, line, sinker. If you are in awe of them skills, you should see what I can do with a body count in relation to a gas bill.
Quote:
Sycronica said:
There are many, many types of people. Some have plenty of finanical security to up and take a weekend trip anytime they please. While there are much more of us who cannot afford to spend $500+ to take off and drive 10hrs to attend a protest. I really wish I could, but unfortunately I have other giant sponges that take my money instead...have you ever heard of them? Those things called BILLS?
If you are saying that paying bills is more important than bringing home the troops, then you are selfish. Are there no other peaceniks in your neighborhood that you could split the cost with?
By the way...10 hours @ 70MPH = 700 miles. 700mi/25MPG = 28gal. 28gal X $3per gallon = $84. That is a llloooooooooooooooonnnggg cry from $500 
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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