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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: depressing [Re: Kremlin]
    #2248963 -

You have a point.. it really is...'just is'. I just happen to enjoy it and as a result derive underlying meanings because that's the way I am.

Per religion I agree, some people need it, or it works for them.. so they go with it. Other people need to form their own ideologies about the world around them.

What I was trying to say is that our consciousness is energy. Our body is matter. The energy inhabits a physical body, in a sense there are two separate units that are temporarily integrated. Without the body, our consciousness could not experience physical reality, you see? Because we would not be attached to a physical anchor, the consciousness is free to flow as energy. The body (matter) returns to earth at death, and the energy moves on.


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Re: depressing [Re: Shizpow]
    #2248972 -

  :nonono:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: depressing [Re: Shroomism]
    #2249050 -

"What I was trying to say is that our consciousness is energy."

I understand the mind/body duality idea, but I must disagree. I personally feel that there is too much circumstantial evidence supporting the brain as the mind to look at any other way. For example, we know that brain damage causes specific problems depending on the location of the trauma. To me, this shows that the brain and the mind are one. To put it another way, that the mind is in fact physical. It is a vast network of synapses and conciousness is a product of electrochemical interaction. That's the way I see it anyway, and I think it's kind of liberting to know that there's no higher power I owe my own mind's existence to.


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.

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Re: depressing [Re: Kremlin]
    #2249303 -

"Other animals dont think about things, they just live, eat, and die."

I don't know if I agree with that claim..... they don't TALK about it..


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: depressing [Re: Strumpling]
    #2249333 -

They may not talk about it

but i highly doubt that some animal is gonna get all depressed and decide to stop living because its had too many existential thoughts...

--Kremlin


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"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

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Re: depressing [Re: Kremlin]
    #2249434 -

Shroomism your post came pretty close to my own feelings on this subject. Everything is cyclical, and life flows into life flows into life, there is no cessation. The first law of thermodynamics : energy can never be created or destroyed, it can only change its form. (paraphrased) Did you know every body, at the second of death, loses 21 grams of mass? as of yet this phenomenon is unexplained but it does raise questions.

Now let me ask you something diffrent kremlin. What is it about the thought that you will die eternally at death so depressing? i mean at first this question may seem ludicrous but think about it. All you are saying here (and i wont try to change your mind, only help you understand your feelings if i can) is that our conciousness is not eternal. We have a set time limit if you will.

But why must we be eternal? why is it that knowing the game will have to end someday makes us stop wanting to play? a rose in a vase may only survive a few days, but does that detract from its beauty? there is nothing to fear in death, believe it or not. Why fear oblivion? many junkies and pill poppers spend much of there lives and money trying to achieve it. Think of a deep, dreamless sleep. Do you fear going to bed at night? surely there is nothing painfull or scary about it, just deep, carefree rest. If that is what death truly is, i can honestly say ive wished for death every morning when my alarm clock goes off. And if death is something more, if there is even a chance (and of course there is a chance) than we may have a pleasant surprise ahead of us as well.

We do not wake up in the morning and say 'whats the use in going about my day! ill just have to go to sleep tonite anyways!' no. we hope only to have the best day we can and at the end of it we all find ourselves looking forward to a good loooong sleep, and in the end it is irrelevant weather we get one day or a hundred million.


These words may not reach you emotionally as they do intelectually. But know at least that death is not to be feared, and life is to be loved. And whatever you may think about religion or spirituality as an opiate or a false hope, you may well find some day that the truth has been there all along, indifferent to your disbelief.

May you find happiness in whatever truth you make yours my friend

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Re: depressing [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2249888 -

What about eternal death is so depressing?  Just the sheer insignificance of my life that becomes apparent...i feel like there is a bigger picture that im not a part of, an emptiness, this place will exist for eternity, but i'll only be here for such a short amount of time.

However, your point about the roses struck me, and what you write does reach me, it was not typed in vain :smile:  Maybe they will help me pull out of this sooner :smile:

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

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Re: depressing [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2249899 -

I think the whole "energy" idea isn't saying much at all. Yes there is "energy" in our mind. There is also energy running my computer. Our minds are just our physical brains, they are no different than a computer, just made of flesh. Certainly the energy that is in my computer won't exactly be created or destroyed, but that doesn't mean my computer has some sort of afterlife. There is some energy floating around our bodies at a cell level, powering bodily functions, there is nothing special about it.

I too used to have these deep thoughts where I would probe the idea of death so deeply that I would finally come to a full realization of what ceasing to exist was, and I would essentially have a panic attack. This sucked very much.

There is nothing worse than knowing that someday you will not exist. I can't believe that in a few years my life will end, and I will cease to exist for an eternity. Never another chance...man I am getting depressed thinking about it.

Anyway, this generally does not depress me because I don't dwell on it. Enjoy the life that you have. Yes, it will end someday and essentially your whole life will have been "pointless" but you still have a lot of shit to enjoy in your life. You can kill yourself, and thats fine, but why bother, when you could be having fun instead? (even if its only for a limited time)

Pharm had a good point about the rose. Don't waste your life dwelling on the fact that you are going to die, because you can still have a kickass time while you are on the planet.

And as far as keeping part of you preserved to be brought back in the future, I too have considered this. One night, high as hell, a friend and I realized that to have your body preserved is essentially time travel. You will remember your last moment of life, and in an instant, you will reawake some time in the future. Voila! Time travel. Imagine how much it would kick ass if you got to wake up someday? And for you, it will only take an instant. While its possible that you will never be brought back, (or, tee hee, you will be brought back an enslaved by an alien race and tortured for eternity!) it is your only chance at living again. I say go for it.

How much do things like this cost? Whether head, full body, or whatever. Am I going to have to be a millionaire to get a second chance at life?

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Re: depressing [Re: Kremlin]
    #2249920 -

Books like "THE HEALING BRAIN" prove to me that the body and mind are not conected PER SAY..............they are the SAME THING.


How you think WILL affect the way you feel and how healthy you are.


When you have a BROKEN HEART well guess what!!!!!!!!!!!!!, you really do!!!!!, your heat muscles tear and there is more stress on the "BROKEN HEART" then normal, also!, did youu know that with enough depressive thought you can send a death signal to your heart?? :smile:
NO SHIT :smile:
I swear :smile:

anyway check that book out, or one of the million books that prove the same thing :smile:


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Re: depressing [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2249921 -

i certainly dont let these thoughts get in the way of my life, and ive got a happy life that i enjoy...i just brought it up here to see peoples' opinions and to start up a discussion. :smile:

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

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Re: depressing [Re: Kremlin]
    #2250250 -

psilocybeingzz: im pretty sure you meant to post that in the 'mind body connection thread' it would have alot more relevance there

kremlin: "theres  a whole big picture that ill never get to be a part of"

no my friend! we all are a part of that picture, right now, and that will never be undone! just like everyone who came before us and everyone who came after, we all get to splash some of our paint on the canvas of life (something about this thread brings out the gross poetics in me) and if we do it well, our children and grand children can benefit from the time on earth we do have. We are immortal in more ways than one, and time itself is an illusion, a creation of the narrowness of our perspective, our inability to percieve all things at once. Fear of 'not enough time' is a human affliction, but it is an illusory one (althought that doesnt detract from the pain it can cause)

all i hope is that by the 'time' your 'time' runs out, you will have realised this, and your 'death' will be a 'good' one  :nut:

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Re: depressing [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2250573 -

kremlin, i understand your perspective regarding neuroscience. if certain brain chemicals and hormone cocktails dictate our thought process, emotions, etc...what does it mean? and what's the difference between conciousness and personality?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: depressing [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #2250653 -

"How much do things like this cost? Whether head, full body, or whatever. Am I going to have to be a millionaire to get a second chance at life?"

About 50 grand for the head, and 250 (I think?) for the whole body. From what I've seen anyway.


--------------------
If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.

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Re: depressing [Re: Shizpow]
    #2251106 -

shizpow, its seems to me you must have a very bleak outlook on life if you really think the best thing you could do with 50 000 dollars is freeze your head at death. I mean weather we live after death or not, id rather do some good with my money for the people who are still alive instead of clinging to some thread of hope that my brain will be revived. Accept death. Dont bother running from it.

I dunno i just think id rather go to my grave thinking i started a relief fund for starving children or something than pay 50 grand for some quack to stick my head in a freezer. Even if i dont believe in a heaven, i believe that we should leave the world better than we found it kinda thing.

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Re: depressing [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2251235 -

PHARMAKOS said:
Did you know every body, at the second of death, loses 21 grams of mass? as of yet this phenomenon is unexplained but it does raise questions.



I didn't want to switch focus on this thread, but this kind of got me wondering about a few things. When someone has an OBE or experience ego-loss or an NDE, does this phenomenon happen also? This might give some credibility to these kinds of experiences. I wonder if any research has been done on this.

salviadog


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Happiness is not being smart enough to know what to worry about.

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Re: depressing [Re: Kremlin]
    #2251263 -

I don't know exactly how I feel about such things as a god or an afterlife... reincarnation... whatever. I have no real clue. But I do sincerely believe that there are more powerful things driving us than we can ever hope to put into words or even make total sense of in our heads. I believe there is something tempermental inside of us, something primal and ever-vigilante, firmly standing it's ground under the sometimes seemingly endless layers of pain and doubt. If I had to use labels, this inside something I would call a spirit.

Everything dies and deep down I know Life is something to feel happy and proud of for being a part of.

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Re: depressing [Re: Grav]
    #2251507 -

nicely put, grav.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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