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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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does consciousness take up space?
    #2250108 -

If it does then that proves that cells have consciousness. do organells have consciousness? If consciousness doesn't take up space then it would be considered a point. Maybe consciousness is a black hole?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2250230 -

um.. how the hell does conciousness taking up space prove that cells have conciousness? fill us in on this loopy logic please

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2250245 -

Quote:
Maybe consciousness is a black hole?


I've often thought that

once i read a paper about how black holes were like the stellar equivalent of a conscious being. not really "equivalent", but there are a lot of parallels.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2250403 -

what other space is there in our bodies other than that taken up by cells?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2250457 -

Does purple take up space?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Swami]
    #2250514 -

:lol: purple...


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2250520 -

1stimer said:
what other space is there in our bodies other than that taken up by cells?


I think it's a little deeper then that though.. An Economy exists throughout trading of goods based on supply and demand, yet the economy isn't anything physical - it's a concept; I think this can be applied to conciousness as well - it's the product of our brains, not neccassarily physicial, but no-less real.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Swami]
    #2250535 -

Does purple take up space?

yes, about 400 nanometers.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2250541 -

consiousness MAKES up space
that is to say it accounts for it


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<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/04-03/428144166-sry.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2250551 -

I believe consciousness takes up space.

In the book "The Field", can't remember the author right now, supposedly everything emits and absorbs energy. We just can't see the exchange of energy.

If we emit energy, it would seem to me that the energy we emit will have the "feelings" in it that are experiencing. Not everyone can pick up on those feelings, but I've met some somewhat psychic people who can.

Edgar Cayce is a good example.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Frog]
    #2250581 -

interesting points from nubious and mitchnast. i dig.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: nubious]
    #2251565 -

how is anything not physical?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2251573 -

some things have physical charcteristics (meaning they interact with atleast one of the five senses), while other things, such as thoughts, do not. dig?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: nubious]
    #2251693 -

The economy is the products and services and the currency being exchanged. As all things, it is the sum of its parts.

I got high once and wanted to know if time had a mass. I thought that maybe the reason scientists are confused about Dark Matter was because all that extra mass the universe is supposed to have is time. Then I thought that maybe eventually, when enough time has gone by, all that extra weight from all that time will catch the ever expanding stars and suck them back in.

But the more I thought about it the less sense it made.


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We have to answer our own prayers

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Frog]
    #2252107 -

Frog said:
I believe consciousness takes up space.

In the book "The Field", can't remember the author right now, supposedly everything emits and absorbs energy. We just can't see the exchange of energy.

If we emit energy, it would seem to me that the energy we emit will have the "feelings" in it that are experiencing. Not everyone can pick up on those feelings, but I've met some somewhat psychic people who can.

Edgar Cayce is a good example.


In other words you are talking about Auras?

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252137 -

1stimer said:
what other space is there in our bodies other than that taken up by cells?

Cells are made of molecules, molecules of atoms... etc. ---> the smallest particles have consciousness. (Do strings have consciousness??? :confused:)

It doesn't make sense....

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252152 -

Well consciousness is the part of us thats connects us to everything that is. Think about it this way, can you imagine and end? No, therefor there is no end, well, you can imagine an end but that would be putting a limit to your imagination. Your thoughts can go on forever, you can imagine anything in any way, shape, form, non-shape, in any pattern... basically the consciousness does not have limitations, therfor it is all that is. And yes the consciousness takes space, all the space in the universe.... in all-that-is, because everything you percieve is in your consciousness, everything other people percieve is in THEIR consciousness and their consciousness takes up the same space your consciousness does, therfore all consciousnesses are intertwined (making a unison) taking up all the space that is together... in eternity. The only way of understanding this theory is to not limit your understanding of things to physical objects. Or you just have to understand that everything is built up by energy, and this is why we are all connected as one by energy. WHy we are all differant individuals in this whole big intertwined consciousness/universe is whole differant subject... but then again the same.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252157 -

1stimer said:
how is anything not physical?


If you describe physical by the fact that you can touch and see then you are not looking at it the right way (according to my opinion ofcourse). You could say EVERYTHING is physical and you could say NOTHING is physical. Look, every cell, molecule... or whatever... everyTHING vibrates at a certain frequency, the ones we can see and touch are amongst the things that vibrate at the slowest frequency. If you heat up a block of ice the molecules will vibrate and the ice will turn to water, heating it more (causing the molecules to vibrate faster) turns the water into steam which is harder to touch and see but yet the frequency of steam moves just slow enough for us to percieve it. Spirits can walk amongst us all the time, but they are hadly visible, their frequency vibrates at an incredible speed. Its all metaphysics.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: filthysock]
    #2252162 -

Quote:
turns the water into steam which is harder to touch and see but yet the frequency of steam moves just slow enough for us to percieve it

This has nothing to do with the frequency of the vibrating molecules. Where did you learn this?

How do we percieve water in gas phase?

Edited by Annom (01/19/04 05:53 AM)

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: filthysock]
    #2252170 -

PM me for anyone interested in Consciousness Compacts. They are small, cute acrylic, metal or hardwood containers to put your consciousness in. Please specify material desired and natural color, black, silver or navy blue. $14.95 retail.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Annom]
    #2252171 -

Yes it does. The more the molecules vibrate, the more they part, the more they part the more substance becomes gas and so on and so forth. It doesnt necessaraly have to do with heat, but by applying energy.
We percieve water in gas phase as gas. What do you mean? When you see gas, you see it, when you put your hand through steam you can sorta feel it. So thats how you percieve it.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: filthysock]
    #2252180 -

when you put your hand through steam you can sorta feel it.

You go to the emergency room with a third-degree burn. If the steam pressure is high enough, you go minus a hand. You cannot see steam.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: filthysock]
    #2252189 -

Edit: off topic  :cool: but we can't see water in gas phase.

Edited by Annom (01/19/04 06:24 AM)

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Annom]
    #2252289 -

Quote:
Cells are made of molecules, molecules of atoms... etc. ---> the smallest particles have consciousness. (Do strings have consciousness??? )

It doesn't make sense....


strings dont have living cells. A collective of living cells forms an organ, which i believe has a consciousness. You just said what im trying to get at, that the further inward or outward you go, i believe that there is consciousness regardless of size.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2252290 -

Quote:
some things have physical charcteristics (meaning they interact with atleast one of the five senses), while other things, such as thoughts, do not. dig?


So all there is to our reality is what we can experience with our 5 senses? I dont believe that. There is much more to our reality than what we can even come close to percieving. The things we cant percieve are none the less real.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252292 -

"So all there is to our reality is what we can experience with our 5 senses? I dont believe that. There is much more to our reality than what we can even come close to percieving. The things we cant percieve are none the less real."

All we know exists is what we can perceive. Sure, there are probably plenty of things we can't perceive, but we've got no clue as to what they are. We can't perceive them, remember?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252296 -

"If it does then that proves that cells have consciousness."

No it doesn't. Conciousness could easily be the combined effort of many cells. I'm not sure how you're coming to these conclusions.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Phluck]
    #2252298 -

how do we know that dogs have a consciousness?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: RiderGZ]
    #2252302 -

RiderGZ: "In other words you are talking about Auras?"

No, and I don't think the energy we emit is the same thing as our auras.

I've been meaning to go back to the book store and get that book.

Does anyone know??


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252306 -

"how do we know that dogs have a consciousness?"

We don't know that. It seems likely they do based on the fact that they act similar to humans, and seem to be built somewhat the same way.

But we don't know for sure if they do. There's no way to tell if people other than ourselves even have conciouness.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Phluck]
    #2252314 -

why does consciousness have to resemble a human state of mind. Do you even need a mind to have a consciousness. Does one need to be self aware to have a consciousness? If you follow evolution way back to the beginnings of life on earth, would the first life form have consciousness and that was the beginning of consciousness?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252320 -

"why does consciousness have to resemble a human state of mind."

We don't even know what conciousness is, so we can't assume anything has it.

"Does one need to be self aware to have a consciousness?"

Again, nobody knows.

"If you follow evolution way back to the beginnings of life on earth, would the first life form have consciousness and that was the beginning of consciousness?"

Like I said, no way of knowing that.

Jumping to conclusions is not good.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Phluck]
    #2252326 -

Quote:
Jumping to conclusions is not good.


But it takes you interesting places


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252336 -

"But it takes you interesting places"

That's why there's a fiction section in every bookstore.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2252410 -

Does one need to be self aware to have a consciousness?

What's your definition of consciousness?

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: filthysock]
    #2252820 -

It doesnt necessaraly have to do with heat, but by applying energy.

Heat = Energy

Endothermic...Exothermic... absorb energy... release energy.....

I don't know if its just me, but I can see steam just fine. Whenever I put a burger on the grill it starts to cook and sizzle, with steam rising from it. Steam can also be seen soming out of a pot of boiling water. Steam is translucent, it is not transparent.

BTW, I think Phluck explained it best when he said
"We don't even know what conciousness is"


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AH HA....

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #2252861 -

I don't know if its just me, but I can see steam just fine. Whenever I put a burger on the grill it starts to cook and sizzle, with steam rising from it. Steam can also be seen soming out of a pot of boiling water. Steam is translucent, it is not transparent.

You see small liquid water drops in the air, not water in gas phase. It's impossible to see water in gas phase!

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Annom]
    #2252945 -

You see small liquid water drops in the air, not water in gas phase. It's impossible to see water in gas phase!

Ok, I believe you. I remember working at a coffee shop with an espresso machine that you couldn't see the steam aside from water vapor - which is the distinction I failed to realize in my first post.


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AH HA....

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2253176 -

Ok...here's the deal. We don't get to just define words any damn way we want to make them fit our arguments and then turn around and claim that our conclusions are valid. It's nice to think that we can just reshape the language and stretch definitions, but we can't. Even if we could, that would just end up undermining the language itself in the long run, anf that's no good for anyone. We need a system of agreed upon meanings to communicate.

To be conscious is to be aware. To be conscious of one's existence and one's self is to be aware of one's existence and self. To be aware requires a mind. Unless you're saying that thought can take place outside of a mind. And if you're saying that, what the hell does that even mean? Show me a mindless thing that is self aware.


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Frog]
    #2253527 -

Frog... You met Edgar Cayce ?

Do you think, in your opinion, that he is relatively valid?


Seriously?


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Swami]
    #2254370 -

PM me for anyone interested in Consciousness Compacts. They are small, cute acrylic, metal or hardwood containers to put your consciousness in. Please specify material desired and natural color, black, silver or navy blue. $14.95 retail.

  :lol: do they come on key chain?

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2255965 -

If I gave the impression that I met Edgar Cayce, I didn't mean to. I had a book of his once, and I lost it, but I give him a lot of credits for my beliefs.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Shizpow]
    #2256047 -

Quote:
To be conscious is to be aware. To be conscious of one's existence and one's self is to be aware of one's existence and self. To be aware requires a mind. Unless you're saying that thought can take place outside of a mind. And if you're saying that, what the hell does that even mean? Show me a mindless thing that is self aware.


How do you know anyone but yourself has consciousness?


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: 1stimer]
    #2256244 -

How do you know anyone but yourself has consciousness?

How do you know that you have consciousness? That there even is a you?

Several experiments on the brain (by Libet for example) have shown that what we perceive as the conscious decision to do something (lift an arm for example), arrives after the corresponding part of the brain (the one which controls the arm) have been activated. If those experiments hold up, then maybe what we perceive as consciousness is nothing more than rationalizations.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."
Aldous Huxley

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: muhurgle]
    #2256333 -

Several experiments on the brain (by Libet for example) have shown that what we perceive as the conscious decision to do something (lift an arm for example), arrives after the corresponding part of the brain (the one which controls the arm) have been activated. If those experiments hold up

Yes, very interesting experiments! As far as I know they have been reproduced several times and they hold up. I will try to find some links.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: muhurgle]
    #2256343 -

yeah I read some studies like that... I forgot the details


but if it's true, consciousness can be analogous to wake turbulence - all the action takes place after the decision has already been made.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2256435 -

I read this whole thread and I think that we as humans can think only as humans as we're humans ;imagine the first energy source ,space was created from this energy when he/she/it gots aware of himself/itsef/herself.This is consciousness and has nothing to do with brain and human.This cosmic consciousness then show himself as the universe for our human brains,however that's what we perceive so far and though this isn't a conclusion I believe that stones and mountains also have consciousness as it's said in some religions.
What do you think?

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: stara]
    #2256514 -

Definitely, cosmic consciousness... what I really want to get into is Zen. I need to look further into it...

Check out Handbook To Higher Consciousness by Ken Keys Jr, it is possible to follow it all the way up to cosmic consciousness, but most people will never go that far... basically all desire and individual perspective is eliminated.

Of course, nothing wrong with staying in the higher levels of consciousness and occasionally sneaking up to cosmicness. :wink:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: muhurgle]
    #2256634 -


- Consciousness Explained, Daniel C. Dennett.

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2256685 -

exactly where we feel the cosmic consciousness is by its effects like power .And there  happening a lot of things in the universe though we cannot catch and feel but they're happening independent on us.It's like mountains can speak but  we don't understand ...;probably there are some people who understand their language:)Also it's told in an old chinase book(Foucault quotes it in his work 'Order of things') that there were a language once that enables universe to interact each other which is destroyed in Babylon to punish the humanitas.After that each group created his own language so far remembering and containing some parts of the ancient speach;it's told probably the neariest to it is the Hebrew language. This language is also  like the one which is  spoken by ancient dragons in the book 'The Eartsea Quartet' of Ursula Le Guin.And there is a translator cold 'Babylon' :laugh:

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: stara]
    #2256705 -

where we feel the cosmic consciousness is by its effects like power .And there happening a lot of things in the universe though we cannot catch and feel but they're happening independent on us.

I don't get it. What has power to do with cosmic consciousness? What is happening independent on us? What do you mean? ???? Babylon and cosmic consiousness :confused:

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Annom]
    #2256867 -

Thanks Annom. That's kinda funny actually, since I've just started reading Consciousness Explained by Dennett now, but I haven't got to that part yet. Read about the Libet experiment in another book (The Meme Machine by Susan Blackmore), some time ago.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."
Aldous Huxley

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Re: does consciousness take up space? [Re: Annom]
    #2256973 -

Sorry about my english!I meant we humans cannot realize the metapsychic unless we live weird cases we can't explain with science,however some people still ignore them.With power it's the same ;you feel the power(government,authority..)when you're stopped by a cop when driving.And Babylon is the place in miths where the cosmic speach had been destroyed by cosmos(god,Tao,...)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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