Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

starfire_xes said:

The idea that if you take money out of the private sector and filter it through government, then give what's left to whatever constituency is 'in need' of government money and it will grow the economy and create jobs, is absurd.

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But that's not what happens.  You take money from the rich, and feed it right back into the private sector.

starfire_xes said:

And the idea that since the government is corrupt and out of control, that we can grow the government and create more rules and regulations and put more government people in charge of things to fix the situation is equally absurd.

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It is absurd.  That's why we need to elect people who aren't corrupt; Bernie Sanders is a good example.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

amp244 said:

For every public sector job created through government projects, or every increase in welfare entitlements, a job is lost in the private sector

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If you tax a wealthy person to pay for a job, no jobs are lost.  Wealthy people don't just hire people out of the goodness of their hearts because they have extra money to spend.

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Bigbadwooof said:

I already addressed who would pay for it. Do you honestly think that American citizens will settle for the tax breaks to the wealthiest that we've had for decades indefinitely?

Here's an example of one billionaire's take on the subject:

Another 1%er (Stephen King):

Quote:

Tax me for fuck's sake

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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/30/stephen-king-tax-me-for-f-s-sake.html

Here's a CEO who took a pay cut to raise all of his employees wages to $70,000/year:

Quote:

Gravity Payments, that Seattle credit-card-payments processing company that said all its employees would earn at least $70,000 in three years, is defying the doomsayers.

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Quote:

Price said he’d make up the extra cost by cutting his own $1.1 million pay.

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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-70000-minimum-wage-is-paying-off-for-that-seattle-company-2015-10-25


The point is, America can't afford anymore corporate welfare. Trickle down economics doesn't work. The government can take the money and employ people, tightening the labor market, thereby giving wage earners leverage against employers. We can also raise the minimum wage. Single payer is a cheaper and more effective system, as we can clearly see the world over.

People still want to make money in America, and they made plenty of money 50 years ago when tax rates were multiple figures of what they are today. It not only can be done, it has been.

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perikleous said:

Wall Street doesn't care who wins the election, they pull the strings of whoever ends up in office. The courts assured that last year by stating that politicians have NO Obligation to stand by the electoral promises, in other words what they promise to do if elected! The system has cleared itself of all responsibility and anyone who doesn't realize not one promise Obama made was actually done, he actually did the opposite which is worse than doing nothing! To blame an elected official or expect him/her to DO something for the PEOPLE is a joke, the entire system is for SHOW for the people (real Reality TV)  The ones running the country have been in the elected peoples circle for the past 50 yrs, the same people regardless of which party you elect(they own them both) To Blame the president for anything is the same as blaming RONALD MCDONALD for a bad hamburger, its F-cking pointless, he's only the face on the package to help sell it! He has no real say or power... They will use his legal knowledge to work around the constitution just like they used Bush's stupidity to create the 9/11 scandal and go to war ... for 14 years and counting.. The Health ins scam was to take from the tax payers and give to the 1%. the wars (spreading american democracy)is to take from the tax payers and give to the 1% (artillery, construction, military costs blah blah)and the bonus is the things they steal from those countries and extort  for years after to maintain the safety/freedom... Doesn't that sound familiar, the mafia would rob you then charge to protect you (extortion) from the thieves... Wall street  is  just the casino for the wealthy, except when they lose, we (tax payers) get the bill ... A vote for any of these puppets is basically supporting this corrupt criminal enterprise of epic proportions.. If any of the puppets had true intentions of standing up for THE PEOPLE they would free themselves from the two party system we have and go independent and I doubt that would matter because if they couldn't be bought/forced to do as told the NSA  has the dirt on them, either financial/sexual or whatever, if all else fails they will JFK him!!! (J.F.Kennedy/Just F-cking Kill) same meaning.

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amp244 said:

Do you contend that these people are simply hoarding large lumps of cash and bathing in it? Perhaps they are living lavish and luxurious lifestyles but that money spent is still employing people, nobody just hoards their money.

I think the phrase "money hoarder" is an oxymoron. If you hoard your money, it inflates away in a fractional reserve fiat system.

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amp244 said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

If you tax a wealthy person to pay for a job, no jobs are lost.  Wealthy people don't just hire people out of the goodness of their hearts because they have extra money to spend.

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Do you contend that these people are simply hoarding large lumps of cash and bathing in it? Perhaps they are living lavish and luxurious lifestyles but that money spent is still employing people, nobody just hoards their money.

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Perhaps an example makes this easier to understand.  Let's say I own a restaurant.  What's better for my business, to live in a town of two super wealthy people where everyone else is too poor to go out, or to live in a town where no one is wealthy but everyone is middle class?

amp244 said:

I think the phrase "money hoarder" is an oxymoron. If you hoard your money, it inflates away in a fractional reserve fiat system.

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Agreed, and KauaiOrca just did a nice job answering that.

amp244 said:

Now I do sympathize with the sentiment that Mega banks are simply not making loans to small borrowers with profit margins so low given current interest rates. Sanders is critical of these big banks and his concerns are shared by me. I think that some of these "Too Big to Fail" banks need to be broken up. Anti-trust laws, anti monopoly laws, and propositions such as the Paul Volker rule must be tailored to address such issues.

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KauaiOrca said:

amp244 said:

Do you contend that these people are simply hoarding large lumps of cash and bathing in it? Perhaps they are living lavish and luxurious lifestyles but that money spent is still employing people, nobody just hoards their money.

I think the phrase "money hoarder" is an oxymoron. If you hoard your money, it inflates away in a fractional reserve fiat system.

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This may have been true 30-40 years ago ... but it isn't true now and YES, a small percentage of people are hoarding enormous sums of money that isn't getting into the real economy anymore.  That money is, instead, often "invested" (if you can call it that) into highly leveraged schemes that create more "profit" out of debt via the magic of our financial system.  That money is also converted into jobs OVERSEAS so it is in essence extracted from the US economy.  Add to that the globalism that takes money from local communities to pay people all over the world and doesn't return much of it at all back to the local communities where it came from. 

The game, at the top, is how to convert all of this easily available debt into private profits.  The "jobs" this creates are exactly the kind of jobs that are destroying our economy.

The answer IS NOT more "government" as you put it ... it's more policy to get more Americans, the wealthiest Americans, investing in projects and companies that do business IN AMERICA.

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amp244 said:

Quantitative Easing is the single most devastating rip off of the American public ever conceived. The Fed announced that it would be buying Treasury bonds on the open market thereby loaning money to the U.S. government. They did this by extending credit to private banks (JP Morgan, Citi Group, Goldman, etc) at NEAR ZERO interest rates, so that they may in turn buy the Government bonds on the open market. The catch here is that the Treasury Bills carry around a 3% interest rate on them, which is paid to the private bank by the tax payer. The bank then turns around and pays the loan back to the Federal Reserve at a NEAR ZERO interest rate. These banks are getting money for practically free, and investing it into interest bearing government bonds assured by the taxpaying American.

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amp244 said:

They are robbing you, me, and all the good people in this country, of our wealth. Not only from the interest on the treasury bills, but also through the mechanism of inflation that I described above.

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amp244 said:

Wealth is being transferred from the American people, to the largest institutions in the world. The loans may temporarily bolster the economy and make things appear peachy on the surface, but the leach is steady sucking and getting fat. Call it the Devil's-cut.

Until the banking cartel is exposed and its schemes destroyed, you will not be able to stop the subservience that the system has created.

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amp244 said:

Socialism and a Welfare state will only worsen these matters. A return to a national central bank and a gold standard are invaluable aspects of the necessary course of action that will restore true liberty and prosperity to the hard working people of this country. Until the Federal Reserve Act is repealed, nothing we propose will work.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The problem isn't the Federal Reserve.  The problem is a congress who is bought and paid for by big business and big banks.  If we elect the right people, money can be redirected back to the people, and not the corporations.  What needs to be reversed is Citizens United.

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Stonehenge said:

Rich people are the goose laying the golden egg. Fal, you and the other extreme left wingers want to drive away the goose by confiscating all its gold. Rich people aren't stupid, if they see any profits made in usa get taxed at some ridiculous rate, they invest overseas and do not bring the money back. This is already happening and it will get worse if Bernie gets in. It will get much worse if the bitch gets in.

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paperbackwriter said:

Don't forget about security.

We have the largest military on the planet protecting those assets.  Who pays for that?  Oh right...

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