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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: rxb]
    #22094417 -

i mean its not all bad

some of the nicest people i know have the last name rothschild

its just that our political system isnt as it seems.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: rxb]
    #22094443 -

rxb said:
well if you are asking which candidates i like the best, its probably paul.

but i dont think it really matters since they are all the same


as far as the names on that list consolidating, they all boil down to 5 families and then corporations and people controlled by those families...


They ARE NOT all the same.  There is absolutely no frigging way possible that Gore or Clinton would have launched an enormous ground invasion of Iraq in 2003.  Would they have increased sanctions or maybe some targeted strikes?  Probably.  But a full scale ground invasion with a multi trillion dollar nation building program that still continues?  No frigging way. 

McCain would probably have us in ground wars in Ukraine, Iran, Syria and possibly Yemen. 

If Ron Paul had been elected we'd have a very different monetary policy that would have enormous ramifications.  If Carter had gotten a second term you can be 100% certain our energy policy in the US would have been very different from what we have today.

Elections matter.  The notions that all candidates are the same is utter and complete bullshit. 

Both parties do agree no some big uber macro issues like more debt, more defense spending, more campaign finance rewards, more surveillance and more globalism.  But there are certain areas where the difference between the parties is extreme.

Broad brush statements simply display ignorance.  Our planet is far more nuanced than a 15 word sentence can capture.


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“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094459 -

Quote:
They ARE NOT all the same.  There is absolutely no frigging way possible that Gore or Clinton would have launched an enormous ground invasion of Iraq in 2003.  Would they have increased sanctions or maybe some targeted strikes?  Probably.  But a full scale ground invasion with a multi trillion dollar nation building program that still continues?  No frigging way.


if their bosses say jump they jump


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: rxb]
    #22094470 -

politics and wars are decided upon the same way that the price of gold is.

and it doesnt have a thing to do with an election.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: rxb]
    #22094523 -

I like rand Paul too, he's a great guy and I think he'd be great leader, I'm surprised more Libs don't support him, he's against globalism, the fed, war on drugs, but he's also prolife, so I'm pretty sure that's where the wedge issue for them, it's like their friggin religion or something, lol


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: rxb]
    #22094589 -

rxb said:
Quote:
They ARE NOT all the same.  There is absolutely no frigging way possible that Gore or Clinton would have launched an enormous ground invasion of Iraq in 2003.  Would they have increased sanctions or maybe some targeted strikes?  Probably.  But a full scale ground invasion with a multi trillion dollar nation building program that still continues?  No frigging way.


if their bosses say jump they jump


You're missing the bigger point.  They have DIFFERENT bosses.  Do you truly think the Koch's are asking for the same things that Soros or Steyer or the Teachers union of California are asking for?  That's what you're missing.  Do you think that when Gore's group gives millions they're asking for the same things that Exxon is asking for?  Get serious, bud.  The different parties have different "bosses" as you call it and they push for different things ... in some cases radically different things.

There is no "ONE BOSS" that controls the whole thing.  There are lots of people trying to push things this way and that way.  The notion that there's an uber controlling super boss at the top is utter an complete nonsense.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22094593 -

hostileuniverse said:
I like rand Paul too, he's a great guy and I think he'd be great leader, I'm surprised more Libs don't support him, he's against globalism, the fed, war on drugs, but he's also prolife, so I'm pretty sure that's where the wedge issue for them, it's like their friggin religion or something, lol


Pro life, pro cuts in entitlements, pro cuts in social spending, pro cuts in infrastructure, pro cuts in education, pro cuts in foreign aid, pro cuts to the United Nations, pro cuts in environmental restrictions ...

That's how you lose liberals.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: rxb]
    #22094598 -

rxb said:
politics and wars are decided upon the same way that the price of gold is.

and it doesnt have a thing to do with an election.


Of course it does.  If McCain had been elected things would be very different from Obama's outcomes.

Your statements are  quite juvenile, if you want to be honest.  The GOP is right now pushing us toward war with Iran.  Obama is going 180 degrees the other direction.

If you can't see that, you're blind.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094615 -

>There is absolutely no frigging way possible that Gore or Clinton would have launched an enormous ground invasion of Iraq in 2003.

You don't know that, that's just your pro-dem bias talking. Dems voted for war too. They might make speeches against it but just enough always cross over to get it done. Why are we still in Iraq and a bunch of other countries right now with a dem in office the last 6 years?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22094672 -

Stonehenge said:
>There is absolutely no frigging way possible that Gore or Clinton would have launched an enormous ground invasion of Iraq in 2003.

You don't know that, that's just your pro-dem bias talking. Dems voted for war too. They might make speeches against it but just enough always cross over to get it done. Why are we still in Iraq and a bunch of other countries right now with a dem in office the last 6 years?


S - I am not a democrat at all.  I'm fiscally pretty conservative and moderate to liberal on social issues.  GWB mounted the most aggressive possible response to a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.  It is very unlikely even another Republican candidate would have invaded Iraq with so much force.  Democrat leaders at the time (Hillary, Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Kerry) really let down the country by doing the politically safe thing and giving GWB that authority but more democrats in congress voted against the Iraq war authorization than voted for it.  Most Republicans (nearly all) supported it.

We are in the Middle East still because the Iraq war destabilized everything.  However, we are not in there with anything near the kind of numbers that GWB and gang had and I don't see that changing with a new democrat for President.  They've all decided to go with the drone + air/logistics + targeted special forces type support at most.  Would I prefer a President that had an even more aggressive plan to get out of the Middle East and off Middle East oil???  YES!!!

But that's not politically possible right now.  The Democrats lost a lot of elections for being weak on defense and learned their lessons ... they aren't going as far left on military confrontations as I'd like to see ...

IMHO, Obama's a frigging A-hole for pushing his drone campaign and upping the wattage on domestic surveillance, but at least he hasn't invaded a NEW country with a hundred thousand US soldiers and for that I'm thankful.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094711 -

KauaiOrca said:
hostileuniverse said:
I like rand Paul too, he's a great guy and I think he'd be great leader, I'm surprised more Libs don't support him, he's against globalism, the fed, war on drugs, but he's also prolife, so I'm pretty sure that's where the wedge issue for them, it's like their friggin religion or something, lol


Pro life, pro cuts in entitlements, pro cuts in social spending, pro cuts in infrastructure, pro cuts in education, pro cuts in foreign aid, pro cuts to the United Nations, pro cuts in environmental restrictions ...

That's how you lose liberals.


And that's why I don't like liberals, y'all just want us to spend spend spend until we end up like Greece, it really is insane...


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094725 -

>Democrat leaders at the time (Hillary, Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Kerry) really let down the country by doing the politically safe thing and giving GWB that authority but more democrats in congress voted against the Iraq war authorization than voted for it.  Most Republicans (nearly all) supported it.

That's just exactly what I said. The dems talk a good game but they always vote for the bad things too, just enough to get it passed. We saw the same charade played out over the tpp authorization.

>We are in the Middle East still because the Iraq war destabilized everything.

We are destabilizing it even more every day, that makes no sense at all as a reason to keep on.

>However, we are not in there with anything near the kind of numbers that GWB and gang had

Big frickin deal, he is using proxies for the most part and drones as you mention. People who get killed don't care if its a drone, a us marine or an al quaida we armed and supplied. The result is the same. Same with gop, same with dem.

>IMHO, Obama's a frigging A-hole for pushing his drone campaign and upping the wattage on domestic surveillance, but at least he hasn't invaded a NEW country with a hundred thousand US soldiers and for that I'm thankful

Ever heard of Syria? He tried like hell to get authorization to send in 100k troops but was thwarted in his efforts. So, he sends in the proxies, bombs from the air, etc. What is the difference? You claim you don't like the dems but defend them with your every breath.

hu
>And that's why I don't like liberals, y'all just want us to spend spend spend until we end up like Greece, it really is insane...

Yep


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094762 -

KauaiOrca said:
hostileuniverse said:
I like rand Paul too, he's a great guy and I think he'd be great leader, I'm surprised more Libs don't support him, he's against globalism, the fed, war on drugs, but he's also prolife, so I'm pretty sure that's where the wedge issue for them, it's like their friggin religion or something, lol


Pro life, pro cuts in entitlements, pro cuts in social spending, pro cuts in infrastructure, pro cuts in education, pro cuts in foreign aid, pro cuts to the United Nations, pro cuts in environmental restrictions ...

That's how you lose liberals.



That's how you win a lot of middle class people.  Why--?

Prolife--Not the governments business at federal level.
Entitlements--Not the governments business at federal level--but there is no way to change it now.
Social Spending--Not the federal governments constitutionally mandted power
Infrastructure--Not the federal governments constitutionally mandated power.
Cuts in Foreign Aid--fucking A!!  We have people at home to worry about :rockon:
Cuts to UN--Fucking A!!!  Why pay for a globalist government????  :rockon:
Environmental restrictions:  this may be the only legitimate are for the Feds to butt into--then there is the issue of environmental regs and way too much environmental regs.  Lets give an example--70's era ideas, catalytic converters, plant exhaust scrubbers--great ideas.  Look at air pollution now vs then.
Bad ideas--shutting down coal in the name of global warming:  carbon dioxide isnt a pollutant.  Coal fired plants burn very very clean already. 

the democrat party has all but lost the coal states--once highly democrat.  Good job Obama.  Hand the country to the republicans on a silver platter.  :smirk:


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22094789 -

If people don't wise up after 8 years of obumble and his incompetence, misfeasance and malfeasance, they never will. But judging by some on this board, they never will.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22094825 -

Fact is most crap the federal govt does isn't their business or do they have right to do, they do it anyway. Hell, until 1977, there was no education department, kids still went to school, college, etc. and even liberals freely admit we were much better off economically PRE the DOE...

Now we spend 70 BILLION a year and for what? Education in this country has gone down the crapper...

There are so many things the Feds just should have no hand in, but liberals have convinced a great deal of people that if the Feds don't do it, it won't get done. Either the Feds do it or well have absolute chaos...


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22094833 -

Stonehenge said:
If people don't wise up after 8 years of obumble and his incompetence, misfeasance and malfeasance, they never will. But judging by some on this board, they never will.


I fear you are right, the democratic nominee is actually irrelevant because no matter who it is, the sheeple will still vote for them...


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22094852 -

Stonehenge said:
If people don't wise up after 8 years of obumble and his incompetence, misfeasance and malfeasance, they never will. But judging by some on this board, they never will.


This country is screaming for an intelligent Republican to step up with some great ideas on how to improve the country and if the'd stop beating the drums to outlaw abortion, prevent gay marriage and enable every mental nut in the country access to military level weapons, then the'd CRUSH the democrats ... I really mean that.  More people agree with the Republicans on more issues and it is shown every year in polling which is why there are 31 GOP Governors, big majority in the House and now a majority in the Senate not to mention huge gains in state legislatures.

It's the pro war, pro life, pro guns and anti gay stuff that kills them at the Prezzy level.  Maybe one more defeat and they'll get it through their thick skulls. 

But, if you think another big ground war Iran/Syria and possibly a confrontation with Russia is going to restore America's economy, you're insane.  The GOP has got to show a lot more restraint when they start talking about using ground troops.  GWB and his gang of criminals absolutely crushed the credibility of the GOP and I'm still not sure the country is ready to give them the WH  yet.  The insanity of anyone in the GOP supporting another Bush is absolutely beyond me.  I feel the same way about Hillary, to be honest.

Personally, I think both parties are totally fucked up.  I prefer the Democrats when it comes to avoiding big ground wars.  If the GOP would really govern in a fiscally responsible way that goes beyond tax cuts for the wealthy, more de regulation for banks and cuts in social programs, I'd be all for them.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094866 -

> I prefer the Democrats...

We know.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22094871 -

Lol, yeah we've all heard that before, praise from the left for a more moderate, loving, democrat-lite republican... Well, they put two of them up last two times and they got shallacked, no freaking democrats voted for them! it's trying to be more like democrats that cause the GOP to lose, I hope they wake up and realize that...


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22094908 -

Trump is what we need. He tells it like it is no matter the political cost. The left of course hates that and the right is divided but he is what we need.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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