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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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mind affects health, study finds
#21761265 - 06/04/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is a somewhat New-Agey, mystical notion floating around that one's mind can affect one's body, i.e. one's health. That "positive vibrations" and certain unscientific techniques using 'mind over matter' can actually cure illnesses. I realize that around here, that sort of stuff is labeled as bullshit -- I believe the word is "nutter" -- but I just thought it would be interesting to present an article on this very subject, and see what sorts of conversation it might generate.
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Overturning decades of textbook teaching, researchers at the University of Virginia School of Medicine have discovered that the brain is directly connected to the immune system by vessels previously thought not to exist.
The finding could have significant implications for the study and treatment of neurological diseases ranging from autism to Alzheimer’s disease to multiple sclerosis.
“It changes entirely the way we perceive the neuro-immune interaction. We always perceived it before as something esoteric that can’t be studied. But now we can ask mechanistic questions.” said Jonathan Kipnis, PhD, professor in the UVA Department of Neuroscience and director of UVA’s Center for Brain Immunology and Glia (BIG).
“We believe that for every neurological disease that has an immune component to it, these vessels may play a major role,” Kipnis said. “Hard to imagine that these vessels would not be involved in a [neurological] disease with an immune component.”
http://www.kurzweilai.net/missing-link-found-between-brain-immune-system
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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So the body affects the body? 
My world view has been turned on its head!
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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It just seemed to me that most people around these parts would consider the notion that one's mind-state or attitude can directly affect their health to be bogus New Age crap. But now it appears that there is a scientific validation of that notion. That's all.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: It just seemed to me that most people around these parts would consider the notion that one's mind-state or attitude can directly affect their health to be bogus New Age crap. But now it appears that there is a scientific validation of that notion. That's all.
As long as you falsely believe your mind controls anything, you have not made progress towards peer review conceptualization.
Unless everybody agrees that feeling good makes you feel good, it's a failed effort. All the peers have to smile at each other in a circle, in consideration of the confidentiality agreements they signed that preclude them talking about it.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: It just seemed to me that most people around these parts would consider the notion that one's mind-state or attitude can directly affect their health to be bogus New Age crap. But now it appears that there is a scientific validation of that notion. That's all.
Yes, my hand can scratch my neck and my brain can control the lymphatic system. There is nothing particularly mystical about this.
Now if someone can show a solely internal way to reliably make themselves younger, cancer-free or regrow hair, then you might have a worthy topic.
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Khancious
da Crow



Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
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One time I slept with Rihanna in a dream, had her legs over my shoulders, refinishing her plumbing system. I finished off with some potent, explosive lubricant, then I woke up in this other dimension, and I still had lubricant all over my panties.
Tell me thats not internally manifested evidence of altering reality...
-------------------- I am that, which is.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: There is a somewhat New-Agey, mystical notion floating around that one's mind can affect one's body, i.e. one's health. That "positive vibrations" and certain unscientific techniques using 'mind over matter' can actually cure illnesses. I realize that around here, that sort of stuff is labeled as bullshit -- I believe the word is "nutter" -- but I just thought it would be interesting to present an article on this very subject, and see what sorts of conversation it might generate.
Quote:
Overturning decades of textbook teaching, researchers at the University of Virginia School of Medicine have discovered that the brain is directly connected to the immune system by vessels previously thought not to exist.
The finding could have significant implications for the study and treatment of neurological diseases ranging from autism to Alzheimer’s disease to multiple sclerosis.
“It changes entirely the way we perceive the neuro-immune interaction. We always perceived it before as something esoteric that can’t be studied. But now we can ask mechanistic questions.” said Jonathan Kipnis, PhD, professor in the UVA Department of Neuroscience and director of UVA’s Center for Brain Immunology and Glia (BIG).
“We believe that for every neurological disease that has an immune component to it, these vessels may play a major role,” Kipnis said. “Hard to imagine that these vessels would not be involved in a [neurological] disease with an immune component.”
http://www.kurzweilai.net/missing-link-found-between-brain-immune-system
"Whatever the thinker thinks, the prover proves."
You could call it psychosomatic, or perhaps neurosomatic would a better term. If you constantly beam out thoughts that the Uverse loves you and is protecting you, it seems reasonable that it may be good for your brain chemistry....
Doesn't matter if it's wrong, the effects may be therapeutic.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: CosmicJoke]
#21762610 - 06/04/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, that's the salient point I was hoping to insinuate.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Mind changes brain, brain changes mind. Mind can fix brain, brain can destroy mind. I swears on me mum.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: circastes]
#21768175 - 06/05/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mind effects health, 2 year old professor of picking his nose says.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: circastes]
#21768259 - 06/05/15 11:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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circastes said: Mind changes brain, brain changes mind. Mind can fix brain, brain can destroy mind. I swears on me mum.
How many time must cover this? Mind and brain are two different descriptors, not two different objects.
The brain is the meat and the mind is what the meat does.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Quote:
circastes said:
Mind changes brain, brain changes mind. Mind can fix brain, brain can destroy mind. I swears on me mum.
How could the mind possibly affect the brain? Minds are products of brains. Something about matter, when organised in a particular way (perhaps having something to do with information processing), produces a mind.
Changes in the brain obviously cause changes in the mind, which can be demonstrated easily here there and everywhere. Eating mushrooms is an example of brain changing mind: Mushrooms go into stomach, psilocybin absorbed to bloodstream, psilocybin turns into psilocin, psilocin goes into serotonin receptors, causing changes in the brain, causing super deep-challenging-crazy-weird-fun-happy-time in the mind.
There is no way for the mind to affect the brain, however, because minds are not made of matter, or stuff. Rather they are the products of matter and stuff.
Changes in the brain cause changes in both the mind and body. The brain keeps the heart beating, the lungs breathing, the hormones flowing etc. But the brain also keeps the thoughts flowing, the consciousness going, the memories available, the subjectivity afloat.
The brain affects health; make the brain healthy, and the body will become healthier with it, and so will the mind. However, there is no way of affecting the mind, without doing so via the brain.
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mind affects health, study finds
In order to come to a conclusion such as this scientifically, then more attention would need to be paid to the variables. If you want to conclude that mind affects body then you would need to keep a test subject's brain unaltered, their body unaltered, and make changed only to their mind, then measure the results. Seeing as this cannot be achieved, however, there is an error of language in the title of the thread. It should read "brain affects health, study finds."
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OrgoneConclusion said:
Mind and brain are two different descriptors, not two different objects.
The brain is the meat and the mind is what the meat does.
I am using 'mind' and 'consciousness' synonymously, perhaps you mean something different by 'mind'.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: secondorder]
#21768433 - 06/06/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
secondorder said:
Quote:
circastes said:
Mind changes brain, brain changes mind. Mind can fix brain, brain can destroy mind. I swears on me mum.
How could the mind possibly affect the brain?
Have you seen amputees use their prosthesis by controlling it's movement with their own thoughts?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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It's magic and proof of telekinesis!
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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I made a thread awhile back pertaining to this. Basically, i was asking if many of the recently discovered medical benefits of cannabis were evidence of the neurosomatic circuit as described by Leary and Wilson, who proposed that the herb activated the circuit and described it as mind-body oneness, in a sense. neurosomatic mastery, meaning master of mind and body because they are one.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: hTx]
#21768870 - 06/06/15 03:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm just reporting facts of my experience, I don't have any argument.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Quote:
Have you seen amputees use their prosthesis by controlling it's movement with their own thoughts?
I have seen amputees use their prosthesis by controlling it's movement with their own brain, if that's what you are talking about. If, by "thought" you are referring to a physiological phenomenon of the brain, then yes, this is possible, but if by "thought" you are talking about the contents of consciousness, then it is not possible for a thought to control a prosthetic limb.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
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Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: circastes] 3
#21769326 - 06/06/15 08:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm just reporting facts of my experience, I don't have any argument.
How can you 'experience' your mind changing your brain?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: secondorder] 3
#21769354 - 06/06/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good luck getting a coherent response.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: mind affects health, study finds [Re: secondorder] 3
#21769895 - 06/06/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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How could the mind possibly affect the brain? Minds are products of brains. Something about matter, when organised in a particular way (perhaps having something to do with information processing), produces a mind.
I don't think it's as simple as saying that minds are a product of brains and matter alone. The brain is often compared to being like a computer. A computer does not create the electricity which brings it to life. It receives electricity which it then uses to perform certain functions. All computers receive the same energy source (for the most part anyway), but the way that energy is expressed depends upon the design and the components of the computer. If if we talk in humans terms, then the mind is the product of both our hardware (the nervous system itself) and of the energy that powers it, which I would call consciousness.
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There is no way for the mind to affect the brain, however, because minds are not made of matter, or stuff. Rather they are the products of matter and stuff.
This is not true. It has been proven in various scientific studies that meditation has various physical effects, including altering the level of neurotransmitters and hormones in the brain/body, and changing the function of the brain. By definition, to reach a meditative state, the frequency of your brainwaves have to change from beta to alpha. Meditation is a mental process, you have to focus your mind in a particular way to reach a meditative state, and yet is has all of these effects.
If you want another example of this, just sit there and think about something happy for a while. Notice how you feel? All those extra endorphin flowing. Now sit and think about something stressful, or sad. Notice how you feel now, all of that cortisol and adrenaline being released. Now tell me that the mind has no effect on the body. Incidentally, high levels cortisol and adrenaline weaken the immune system. On the other hand, studies have been done which show that serotonin boosts the immune system through several different pathways.
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The brain affects health; make the brain healthy, and the body will become healthier with it, and so will the mind. However, there is no way of affecting the mind, without doing so via the brain.
The whole thing that sets humans apart from other animals is that we have conscious awareness and control of our minds! Whilst we might be driven by the subconscious a lot of the time, we also have a great deal of control. If you think of something happy right now, it's not due to any change in your brain, it's because YOU decided to do that.
The body (including brain) and mind are intimately connected, but it is a two way process. The body affects the mind, and the mind affects the body. If one is unhealthy, then it will have an impact on the other, on a small or large scale depending on the situation. I for one think this study is extremely interesting
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (06/06/15 11:07 AM)
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