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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: cali4088]
    #20875423 -

cali4088 said:
So can you further explain why these burn sites create huge morels? Do trees that are burning release huge amounts of sap that is leached into the ground or is it the roots of the burned trees that are the source of huge morel growth?  Do the roots of the dead trees that are decaying release this ABA that was stored in the roots?


Trees that are burning are in a frantic situation of trying to save themselves and trying to prevent water loss.
So the roots are producing ABA in response to hot atmospheric conditions and eventually the burning.
This would be the "stressful" condition for the tree. ABA in response to it.

Roots of a supposedly dead tree aren't necessarily dead. The roots can still survive and produce new growth or in other words "start over".

The roots would be the source of huge morel growth.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20875546 -

Another thing I'm comtemplating is whether during the time AFTER the heavy rains in California and when M. rufobrunnea shows up,
if plants start to flower and bloom out there.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20875563 -

Or if there is something flowering out there in California when rufobrunnea shows up.
This plant would be the culprit and the plant(shrub/bush/tree) that rufobrunnea is associated with.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20875714 -

I guess that's why Morels grow sometimes in wood chips that people buy.  The wood chips that stimulate morels growth most likely came from a distress tree.  I see a lot of people believing that the morels spores where mixed in with the wood chips but maybe they were just dormant in the ground and aided by the wood chips addition

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: cali4088]
    #20875783 -

cali4088 said:
I guess that's why Morels grow sometimes in wood chips that people buy.  The wood chips that stimulate morels growth most likely came from a distress tree.  I see a lot of people believing that the morels spores where mixed in with the wood chips but maybe they were just dormant in the ground and aided by the wood chips addition


Actually the wood chips have soil sometimes mixed in with it. But the sclerotia of morels are also mixed in with the wood chips. And the woodchips come from a location that is wooded or a forest. So its more than likely that some sclerotia were transported along with the woodchips.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #20875803 -

If you to try to grow Russula and are successful, then you could theoretically grow Lobster Mushrooms as well?  What would be needed for that?  I have a SECRET place I know of where I saw over 100 Lobster Mushrooms growing in a forest patch. I don't know what type of Mushroom they were feeding off of though. They were all going bad around 2 weeks ago but im sure they'll be back next year!  I cant wait to see what they taste like!

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20875829 -

Interesting. So the sclerotic stays dormant while with the wood chips?  Didn't you try and succeed in making Morel sclerotia on a small scale?  How many morels can grow off one sclerotia?  I also read where the sclerotia recedes into mycelium if not used?

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: cali4088]
    #20875896 -

cali4088 said:
Interesting. So the sclerotic stays dormant while with the wood chips?  Didn't you try and succeed in making Morel sclerotia on a small scale?  How many morels can grow off one sclerotia?  I also read where the sclerotia recedes into mycelium if not used?


Yes it stays dormant in the woodchips.

Yeah I had jars all the time with those piddly little sclerotia.

Like Mills says there is a correlation between amount and size of sclerotia and the total weight of fruitbodies.

Its possible for it to return to vegetative mycelia.


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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: cali4088]
    #20875904 -

There is so much speculation in this thread it's making my head spin!  Hormones are a wierd thing.  That's why plastics' effects on our health took so long to recognize.  They mimic hormones, and they exhibit a negative dose response curve.  Usually with a drug, the higher the dose, the greater the effect.  Not so with some hormones, in many cases it's the smaller the dose the greater the effect.  I had to get a milligram scale (+/-0.001g) for the GA because the concentrations required are in the PPM and PPB range.  I highly doubt you'd need 100g to do a trial run.

Re: M. rufobrunnea, I think that's what morel mountain was growing and they are allegedly inferor tasting compared to the yellow and black ones.  You can't ID morels on look alone, you need to do DNA analysis which is why I wouldn't talk about species.  But according to Alan Rockefeller rufobrunnea is totaly saprophytic.  it requires no living plants to fruit.  Fruits off dead wood.  I think that would be a good starting place for trying to grow these things inside.  Other than that I think the key like you said is probably hormones and the right strain.


cali4088 said:
How many morels can grow off one sclerotia?  I also read where the sclerotia recedes into mycelium if not used?


1 sclerotia=1 ascocarp.  morels aren't technically mushrooms (basidiocarps) since they are in a whole different class of fungus, the ascomycetes or cup fungi.  don't worry it's just a nerdy mushroom thing.


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Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #20875912 -

Mrcloudy said:
I did not measure this but it was my first Morchella find. I took a spore print and have a culture made from those spores.

http://mushroomobserver.org/165911?q=2Mfqe




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Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20875928 -

I found this website about morels interesting.

http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/morel.html

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: drake89]
    #20875940 -

drake89 said:
Mrcloudy said:
I did not measure this but it was my first Morchella find. I took a spore print and have a culture made from those spores.

http://mushroomobserver.org/165911?q=2Mfqe





Location was Watkins Glen State Park in Upstate New York, this spring(2014). I think it was under Elm, I did not take note of the shrubbery, but do not remember any wild roses. It was pretty huge, I cut it into sections and took multiple spore prints.


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10 different Ganoderma species from across the USA

AMU

MrCloudys guide to North American GanodermaUpdated A rough guide to North American Ganoderma species, with an emphasis on the laccate species.

Edited by Mrcloudy (11/22/14 05:53 PM)

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: drake89]
    #20875998 -

Thank you!  The speculation is what's so awesome.  The possibility of succeeding and the endless ideas in here is really exciting.  I have the land so Im going to experiment introducing morels to my property. Probably an acre or so with maybe over a hundred sections trying different approaches.  Im guessing I could try and culture a Morel sclerotia and introduce it, along with spores to the landscape, aided with wood chips or semi burnt wood from a living tree.  The way some people have succeeded and aren't spilling their secrets was gained through trial and error.

Next year ill post a picture of me torturing a tree for weeks with a flame thrower...LOL  Hopefully I wont be charged with tree abuse!  Ill get that baby's ABA Levels up :wink: 

-Curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought it back!

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #20876002 -

Mrcloudy said:
drake89 said:
Mrcloudy said:
I did not measure this but it was my first Morchella find. I took a spore print and have a culture made from those spores.

http://mushroomobserver.org/165911?q=2Mfqe





Location was Watkins Glen State Park in Upstate New York, this spring(2014). I think it was under Elm, I did not take note of the shrubbery, but do not remember any wild roses. It was pretty huge, I cut it into sections and took multiple spore prints.


Well if it was an Elm tree then it might be sick and it would be producing ABA.
The rose bush like I said was likely the source of why the morels were unusually large.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #20876031 -

Not very good pictures. I can't tell if those are tomentosa or esculenta.
But I can see that they are not densely convoluted.
The huge morels around the rose bushes were densely convoluted.


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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: cali4088]
    #20876050 -

cali4088 said:
Thank you!  The speculation is what's so awesome.  The possibility of succeeding and the endless ideas in here is really exciting.  I have the land so Im going to experiment introducing morels to my property. Probably an acre or so with maybe over a hundred sections trying different approaches.  Im guessing I could try and culture a Morel sclerotia and introduce it, along with spores to the landscape, aided with wood chips or semi burnt wood from a living tree.  The way some people have succeeded and aren't spilling their secrets was gained through trial and error.

Next year ill post a picture of me torturing a tree for weeks with a flame thrower...LOL  Hopefully I wont be charged with tree abuse!  Ill get that baby's ABA Levels up :wink: 

-Curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought it back!


Salt also causes a tree to produce ABA.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20876112 -

Abscisic acid (also called ABA) is one of the most important plant growth regulators. It was discovered and researched under two different names before its chemical properties were fully known, it was called dormin and abscicin II. Once it was determined that the two compounds are the same, it was named abscisic acid. The name "abscisic acid" was given because it was found in high concentrations in newly abscissed or freshly fallen leaves.

This class of PGR is composed of one chemical compound normally produced in the leaves of plants, originating from chloroplasts, especially when plants are under stress. In general, it acts as an inhibitory chemical compound that affects bud growth, and seed and bud dormancy. It mediates changes within the apical meristem, causing bud dormancy and the alteration of the last set of leaves into protective bud covers. Since it was found in freshly abscissed leaves, it was thought to play a role in the processes of natural leaf drop, but further research has disproven this. In plant species from temperate parts of the world, it plays a role in leaf and seed dormancy by inhibiting growth, but, as it is dissipated from seeds or buds, growth begins. In other plants, as ABA levels decrease, growth then commences as gibberellin levels increase. Without ABA, buds and seeds would start to grow during warm periods in winter and be killed when it froze again. Since ABA dissipates slowly from the tissues and its effects take time to be offset by other plant hormones, there is a delay in physiological pathways that provide some protection from premature growth. It accumulates within seeds during fruit maturation, preventing seed germination within the fruit, or seed germination before winter. Abscisic acid's effects are degraded within plant tissues during cold temperatures or by its removal by water washing in out of the tissues, releasing the seeds and buds from dormancy.[8]

In plants under water stress, ABA plays a role in closing the stomata. Soon after plants are water-stressed and the roots are deficient in water, a signal moves up to the leaves, causing the formation of ABA precursors there, which then move to the roots. The roots then release ABA, which is translocated to the foliage through the vascular system[9] and modulates the potassium and sodium uptake within the guard cells, which then lose turgidity, closing the stomata.[10][11] ABA exists in all parts of the plant and its concentration within any tissue seems to mediate its effects and function as a hormone; its degradation, or more properly catabolism, within the plant affects metabolic reactions and cellular growth and production of other hormones.[12] Plants start life as a seed with high ABA levels. Just before the seed germinates, ABA levels decrease; during germination and early growth of the seedling, ABA levels decrease even more. As plants begin to produce shoots with fully functional leaves, ABA levels begin to increase, slowing down cellular growth in more "mature" areas of the plant. Stress from water or predation affects ABA production and catabolism rates, mediating another cascade of effects that trigger specific responses from targeted cells. Scientists are still piecing together the complex interactions and effects of this and other phytohormones.

Location and timing of ABA biosynthesis

    Released during desiccation of the vegetative tissues and when roots encounter soil compaction.[13]
    Synthesized in green fruits at the beginning of the winter period
    Synthesized in maturing seeds, establishing dormancy
    Mobile within the leaf and can be rapidly translocated from the roots to the leaves by the transpiration stream in the xylem
    Produced in response to environmental stress, such as heat stress, water stress, salt stress
    Synthesized in all plant parts, e.g., roots, flowers, leaves and stems


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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20876126 -

ABA is what they naturally produce in the fall and it's what makes them drop their leaves.  That's why it's called abscisic acid.  Abscission is the science word for deciduous trees dropping their leaves.  I think you might be reading too much into the ABA, but I think you're spot on that it could be a trigger for fruiting.  I just don't think you can say for certain 'that's why they were huge'.  I think water is more influential there.  You look at the pics in Stamet's book and all the reports of 1 and 2 pound morels are after flood waters receded.


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Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)

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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: AcidHorse]
    #20876131 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscisic_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_hormone


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Re: Morel sclerotia jars need pasteurization [Re: drake89]
    #20876141 -

drake89 said:
ABA is what they naturally produce in the fall and it's what makes them drop their leaves.  That's why it's called abscisic acid.  Abscission is the science word for deciduous trees dropping their leaves.  I think you might be reading too much into the ABA, but I think you're spot on that it could be a trigger for fruiting.  I just don't think you can say for certain 'that's why they were huge'.  I think water is more influential there.  You look at the pics in Stamet's book and all the reports of 1 and 2 pound morels are after flood waters receded.


Actually that is what they originally thought, but now they are saying that isn't the case except in a few plants.

Quote:
Function

ABA was originally believed to be involved in abscission. This is now known to be the case only in a small number of plants. ABA-mediated signaling also plays an important part in plant responses to environmental stress and plant pathogens.[4][5] The plant genes for ABA biosynthesis and sequence of the pathway have been elucidated.[6][7] ABA is also produced by some plant pathogenic fungi via a biosynthetic route different from ABA biosynthesis in plants.[8]



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