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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2081466 -

^^ Agreed. Great post.

I too have always been very stable, but ecstasy brought me out into months of anxiety and panic attacks. I don't fuck with strong psychoactives much anymore.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2081767 -

"How the fuck can someone even know if they're mentally stable?"

I am, its not to hard to know that, hell when I felt unstable was 16-19 around 20.....everything got to be smooth sailing , so for myself I know

"The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation."

For almost ALL psychedelic drugs IMO, thats not the case at ALL, unless there is already a risk.


"mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere"
that I just cant belive , it seems that the theory goes that everything is fine you are walking in the sunshine then....WHAM

you are depressed !!!!!!!

things like this IMO, come from the way we live , pollution, stress TV (overstimulation)

these things are CAUSED!, they dont just pop up

people in the third world are happier, REALLY alot of them are
why is this??????
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/





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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2082306 -


>>>"things like this IMO, come from the way we live , pollution, stress TV (overstimulation)

>>>these things are CAUSED!, they dont just pop up"



That's why I used the word "seemingly". Hindsight is 20/20, and of course we can look back and figure our factors in our lives which lead to the appearance of a mental illness, but in the moment it's hard to notice if you're not looking for it.


>>>"'The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation.'

>>>For almost ALL psychedelic drugs IMO, thats not the case at ALL, unless there is already a risk."


The point I was making is that, yes, drug use can contribute to mental illness "sneaking up" on someone. You're not arguing my points, I've acknowledged that I'm operating under the assumption that theres a "risk" already present. It's my position that intense drug experiences can push someone over the precipice.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2082420 -

Psilocybeingzz said:
people in the third world are happier, REALLY alot of them are
why is this??????


Uhm, sorry? Where did you get this from? You don't have a clue how lucky we are to live in the (highly) developed countries.


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2083032 -

I find this comment pretty insensitive. I consider myself of "stable character and mind"

It's a point Arthur Janov makes in his book "The Primal Scream". He found that people who have explored and healed their neurosis don't have psychedelic experiences that upset their mental health - they just experience a little increased perception, enhancement of nature, emotional feelings that they can work with. Nothing that's going to drive anyone into a straitjacket.

We're talking about chemical predispositions here, and guess what, there *is* something to worry about every time you use any kind of psychoactive drugs. It's always a risk, no matter how sensible or controlled your use is, it's always potentially hazardous.

But it's no more potentially hazardous than getting a girlfriend, or getting a job or any other experience in life that may involve stress. There are millions of people who have suffered mental illness after their girlfriend left them, FAR more than who became ill after taking mushrooms, is getting a girlfriend a "risk"?

Let me put it this way, I consider almost every human being on earth "at risk" for mental illness

Sure we can all get depressed and anxious, but mental illness in the sense of schizophrenia?

The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation.

Mind altering drugs do not cause mental illness. If you are predisposed to mental illness any stressful experience may bring it on. Using drugs can be a stressful experience for some people. For me and many people I know it's pure euphoric bliss. And as Shulgin said "Euphoria is good for you".


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Xlea321]
    #2083178 -

"Uhm, sorry? Where did you get this from? You don't have a clue how lucky we are to live in the (highly) developed countries."

Bullshit.

You dont have a clue about the fact the America has the highest rate of suicide in the world!!!!

our "perfect" modern societies seem to be flawed

here is only ONE example of how the west is way more deppressed then the east, and check even the MOST basic thingsa about depression, they will agree.

but here is something closer to what I am talking about
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/
why no comment on the article in the first place?????

Anyway personally I am happy as a pig in shit, 16-19 seemed to be the hardest part of life , but for years not it has been smooth sailing, but that doesnt mean I dont notice things around me.

by the way, I realize how people in the east suffer, trust me I know all about that, the WESTERN WAY OF LIFE HAS MENTAL SIDE EFFECTS that can sometimes be very unhealthy.


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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2083231 -

Good point psilo. I read somewhere that mental illness is more prevalent in richer countries.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2083315 -

Quote:
You dont have a clue about the fact the America has the highest rate of suicide in the world!!!!



That isn't quite true... Some suicide stats:

Japan and most of Western Europe have low rates of suicide

The US, Australia, and Canada have intermediate rates

Finland, New Zeland and Estonia have high rates.

Taken from: Johnoson, Krug, & Potter (2000) Suicide among adolescents and adults: a cross-national comparison of 34 countries.

*lurk mode back on*


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-aut disce aut discede-

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: raas]
    #2083534 -

I suspect that taking a fair amount of E over a period of 2 years made me feel more generally anxious about life by raking up issues that are easy to ignore until the lid is blown off your defense mechanisms by such a drug. I am also becoming more adult (early 20's) and taking on more real-life responsibilities. Plus, the world is definitely a shittier place than it was a few years ago. I do not know if I am mentally ill or if I was just a carefree kid in the past and now I am a fearful, anxious adult. I am not comparing my situation to a serious case of mental illness which impairs ones life, just a bit of a downhill feeling where my mental stability is concerned, which may have had something to do with the drugs. Incidentally, I do not think that mushrooms contributed to this at all, just E makes me feel uneasy.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2083620 -

Theres also the flip side (no pun intended) that abstinance can result in the buildup of toxins that the body produces in response to emotional stress, which a certain amount of drugs,alcohol, and tobacco might reduce.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2083666 -

Regarding marijuana, psychedelics, other drugs, and depression.

I used to have pretty severe depression; I was put on two different SSRIs (Prozac, Paxil). I never fully attempted suicide, but the thought crossed my mind many times during this phase of my life.

Marijuana completely took me out of my depression. I can hardly even relate to the boy I was during that phase of my life; as I sit here typing this, suicide is unthinkable.

Psychedelics (I've done many...AMT, LSD, mushrooms, DMT, 2C-T-7, MDMA, DXM, salvia extract) have granted me a new perspective and outlook on life, as well as cultivated my interest in eastern philosophy. I feel I am much more optimistic and open-minded due to psychedelics; and while on psychedelics, I am usually very collected and "sane" (unlike many of my friends who flip out or act strangely on mushrooms). When under the influence of any psychedelic, some people have the possibility of getting stuck on this plane of consciousness by holding complete attachment to it; I think this is when psychosis becomes an issue.

Stimulants can become an issue because the euphoria and energy imbued by them is extremely pleasant; it affects the dopamine reward center of the brain in order to give the user a happiness that he feels he has no other way of experiencing. This euphoria (given by cocaine, amphetamines, etc.) is not associated with the euphoria of marijuana or psychedelics in the mind of the stimulant user. For the same reason that stimulants can lead lives down a high (really high) way to Hell, opiates are even worse. Of course, this is just my opinion; but heroin has killed many great minds. There is too much desire wrapped up in the opiate experience; people do not want to come down from the cloud that they are floating on.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read my opinion on the issue.


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Peace and love,
Tim.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2086482 -

Quote:
Psilocybeingzz said:
"Uhm, sorry? Where did you get this from? You don't have a clue how lucky we are to live in the (highly) developed countries."

Bullshit.

You dont have a clue about the fact the America has the highest rate of suicide in the world!!!!

our "perfect" modern societies seem to be flawed

here is only ONE example of how the west is way more deppressed then the east, and check even the MOST basic thingsa about depression, they will agree.

but here is something closer to what I am talking about
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/
why no comment on the article in the first place?????

Anyway personally I am happy as a pig in shit, 16-19 seemed to be the hardest part of life , but for years not it has been smooth sailing, but that doesnt mean I dont notice things around me.

by the way, I realize how people in the east suffer, trust me I know all about that, the WESTERN WAY OF LIFE HAS MENTAL SIDE EFFECTS that can sometimes be very unhealthy.



Sorry for the rant here and no offence intended, but you are talking complete bullshit. I'm not saying we live in a perfect society. I'm saying we are living in a hugely better one than the third world. And that's why we should consider ourselves lucky.
Suicide rates don't say shit about the general happiness of a country. Suicides here are more of a luxury problem IMO. In the third world where people are constantly doing their best to survive, the thought of suicide doesn't come up. And I'm not talking about the asian countries now, many of them are at least moderately developed.

I still think we are truly lucky to be born here in the developed world. Sure people can get depressed or even contemplate suicide. I'm also depressed some time. But that's your (or my) own fault then. We can't complain, we are always (over)fed, we have relatively good places to live. We can express our mind, educate ourselves and entertain ourselves with a lot of luxury. All the basics are there, now it's up to us to make a good life for ourselves. If you can't manage that, then that's too bad, but don't complain about society.

Sure our societies aren't perfect in a lot of ways, like the drug-laws. But drugs are a secondary need. We have our basic needs, our freedom and a lot of opportunities (in comparison to the third world at least)


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2086530 -

I think what psilocybeingzz might be getting at is what value we place life and our priorities in the west is *hollow* compared to *earning* your living in the east. The fact that they have to struggle to eat, makes eating and just being able to go on - satisfying on some fundamental level of the soul. Where as for the most part, *our* culture is shallow and materialistic with little spiritual content, little satisfaction, little substance, little importance and little value. We dont appreciate the things they appreciate and that catalyzes mental illness (see; depression).

They are going to place ALOT of value on VERY small things, they often have the power of faith and hope, they have something to believe in, and they are going to make the best of it. Comparatively, what do we have? Material things - even if its as simple as food and comfort and safety - thats what we have, and that doesnt satisfy the soul, or whatever you want to title it, for many. What do we have faith in? Politicians? The corporate state? That our families have enough savings that when dad gets laid off over christmas we can still buy Tommy that $210 racecar track for under the tree?

Im not sure thats what he's saying...but....


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2086550 -

Psilocybeingzz said:
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/
why no comment on the article in the first place?????



I read the beginning of your article and think it's bullshit too. Some naive Greenpeace people blaming society because they aren't happy.
Quote:
They suggest that cultural toxins have now reached dangerously high levels, helping to explain the high school shootings, the skyrocketing use of legal and illegal psychoactive drugs, our growing problems with obesity and psychosomatic illness, rage in public places, and the general sense of cynicism and hopelessness that is enveloping our culture.


Come on, those people are saying that psychoactive drug use is a sign of a bad society.

They are saying, there are cultural toxins everywhere. I don't see this around me. I don't hear of depressed people everywhere. It's mostly just people who are temporarily a bit depressed. So what? Life isn't all good, it will get better again.
People are just so rich now, that when they get depressed they don't want to deal with it, they just want to pop a few pills. Fine, take a few pills if they make you feel better, but if you never face up do your depression and fight through, it will never get better without the pills. That's where the problem lies IMO.
It's way worse in America, because people get pills for everything, even kids FFS.


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: PDU]
    #2086563 -

Quote:
I think what psilocybeingzz might be getting at is what value we place life and our priorities in the west is *hollow* compared to *earning* your living in the east. The fact that they have to struggle to eat, makes eating and just being able to go on - satisfying on some fundamental level of the soul. Where as for the most part, *our* culture is shallow and materialistic with little spiritual content, little satisfaction, little substance, little importance and little value. We dont appreciate the things they appreciate and that catalyzes mental illness (see; depression).



Okay that sounds right. We should be glad that we don't have to worry or work much for food and housing. We should be glad that we have the opportunity to spend our lives doing different things. Now it's up to use to make those things worth it for us (and others).

But then the cause of this isn't society, just the fact that we are so rich. Deal with it is what I say. Try to appreciate your wealth.
Sometimes (usually when I'm stoned), I just look around me, see my room, the stuff I have (or can have) acces to, just being able to acces the internet and get info on nearly everything, having the opportunity to buy some drugs and expand my mind, etc, etc. Then I just realise how lucky I am and that it's not up to society to make my life good, it's up to me. And granted, I could do way more to make my life better and it isn't always good, but I don't go bitching on society for that. That's just my problem, which I will have to sort out.

I don't need my life to have a bigger meaning. I just want to live it and see what life has to offer. I don't believe in a god or spiritual things, just that through a pretty amazing sequence of events, life started, and I get to have a piece of life as a conscious life form.

And if people are so unhappy with our rich society and the fact that they're in it, then just buy a plane ticket, go to the poor nations, buy some land, dump the rest of your money and struggle to grow your food and build your housing. Good luck...


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futuretribe.space

Edited by cybrbeast (11/09/03 01:18 PM)

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2086589 -

Quote:
Okay that sounds right. We should be glad that we don't have to worry or work much for food and housing. We should be glad that we have the opportunity to spend our lives doing different things. Now it's up to use to make those things worth it for us (and others).




Thats just it, It is up to us, but people arnt doing anything with it. People in the East or wherever are often forced into valuing the little they do have, Forced - as in its not an option, they dont need to figure it out for themselves, its do or die, its just how it is.
You go onto say that society's to blame, no one's arguing this, we're arguing happiness. Happiness would have to first be defined - does artificial materialistic happiness overpower true faith, ethical morality, true love, and hardwork?, if so, who makes the call? Anyways, in reality, its beside the point.... Furthur in your argument you really seem to defend your personal stance's, Why? It has nothing to do with your previous argument, Your Opinion DOESNT reflect MOST of society, and THATS the problem.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: PDU]
    #2086712 -

No, I believe you are misunderstanding me. I'm not blaming society at all. I'm praising society for being a place where I can live in comfort and freedom if I chose to do so.
My argument was that it's wrong to blame society for your problems, blame yourself. Do something, or don't. That's not my problem.

I define happines as a general feeling of physical and mental well-being. Wether that feeling comes from materialism, spiritualism, family, importance or jacking off doesn't matter.
So probably a lot of people in the west don't feel happy. But people who are fighting to survive usually aren't happy and really want to live in a better place like we do.

I give my personal stance just as an illustration of someone in the west who can appreciate the wealth he is born into and doesn't bitch about society when he's unhappy.
I don't try to defend my personal stance either, I just think it can't hurt to appreciate the relative wealth we have here. Bash my stance if you want to and have a good argument.


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2086732 -

I agree, we should be appreciative, fair enough, i can accept what you have to say as pretty much truth.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: PDU]
    #2086805 -

Okay, that's cool, discussion settled then :smile:
Now where are you Psilocybeingzz?


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2087154 -

"In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king"

In the land of the blind a man with sight is not normal.

One could say his condition was abnormal and contributes to emotional and mental disorder, to a degree requiring psychiactric intervention.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man should perhaps keep his gift under his hat, and enjoy his gift with courteous humility.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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