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OfflineOBE
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Mushrooms and schizophrenia
    #1920701 - 09/16/03 06:45 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Well, i'm gonna take mushrooms for the first time this weekend. Problem is that my brother is a schizophreniac/psychotic. He tried mushrooms a couple of years ago and since then the shyte has really hit the fan. Ok, he had always been weird and irritating but the day he tried shrooms he was abducted by aliens etc, and life at home is no fun no more. So, my question is, is it smart to use mushrooms (even if i do it only once (though it'll probably end up more)) if I have schizophrenia in my family?


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1920729 - 09/16/03 07:15 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

lies, damned lies, and statistics:
playing the odds... the population at large has about 1% chance of developing schizophrenia; those with siblings or parents schitzed maybe 10%; & those with identical twin schitzed maybe 20%
~
(did you know that 84.7% or all statistics are fabricated on the spot?)
~
is yr bro on meds?
has he considered vitamin B3 as an adjunct to treatment?
~
play safe; you've only got one central nervous system to last you for your lifetime...


--------------------
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OfflineOBE
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: gnrm23]
    #1920739 - 09/16/03 07:38 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, you got me confused. He isn't taking any meds but, he is f*cking crazy as hell. Doubt vitamins would do the trick. Hell, i'll probably take it anyway.


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Offlinemikey_
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1920760 - 09/16/03 08:09 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

is there a history of schizophrenia in your family?


--------------------
The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates


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OfflineOBE
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: mikey_]
    #1920926 - 09/16/03 10:47 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Not really, except my brother. There's lot's of weirdos but none of them are medically confirmed schizo's, so no.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1920962 - 09/16/03 11:16 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Be careful. If you're gonna do this, start with a light dose... 1g or less should do it. Try to have someone with you, preferably someone who's not also tripping.

Have fun!

-Diploid


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1921062 - 09/16/03 11:58 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm.. I looked up "Crazy" in Diagnostic statistics manual but did'nt find it there.

If your brother is a diagnosed psychotic (meaning medically, not the common meaning)he really should get pharmaceuticals called "neuroleptics/antipsychotics" to help him (and you) get by better. I am not a doctor but it is 100% valid medical advice to let him see a doctor on it should this not have happened already. If he cannot go by himself, accompany him.

If you note a general trend towards oddness in your family and this oddness does not appeal to you it is time to really consider whether you should trip or not.

Forget the big medical words like psychosis and stuff like that. Many people end up a wee bit more to the odd side of the spectrum after especially a series of mushroom or LSD experiments, and these effects may well persist for years on end.

I would recommend to seriously consider whether you would want to take the possibly enhanced risk. For most psychedelics are low-risk and high-gain adventures. For some it had been better if they had spiked their vein with cloudy heroin rather then take a single low dose of mushrooms or LSD.

Should you want to try mushrooms go for the rediculously low doses and very slowly work your way up until satisfying amounts, waiting a bare minimum of 2 months between sessions.
Not that I do NOT recommend you or anyone trying it.
It's completely uncool and perhaps I'll catch some flak but consciousness-expansion is, nor ever was, safe.


.


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OfflineOBE
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: Asante]
    #1921085 - 09/16/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not really worried about the strangeness that runs in my family (alcoholic, homeless, gay, prison, murdered...that's the kind of strangeness i'm talking about).
My brother tough, he has been commited into a mental institution, but he's the rare agressive kind, and he refused and still refuses treatment, wich according to the law he cannot be forced to. His shrink proscribed zyprexa, haldol and valium, drugs he refused to take. But, i'm thinking, i'm nineteen and still completely normal. Because of my brother i've met psychiatrists and psychotherapists and none of them has ever diagnosed me with schizophrenia or psychoses.
Am i in the danger zone or not?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1921122 - 09/16/03 12:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Late teens and early twenties are the usual time schizophrenia develops.

Depends what you want out of mushrooms. If it's just to get fucked up it's not worth the risk.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: Xlea321]
    #1921357 - 09/16/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

RDA for niacin is like 15 mg per day...
canadian shrink, dr abram hoffer (& colleague dr humphrey osmond) back in the 50s, noticed that there was a great deal of similarity between psychosis symptoms & pellegra symptoms (a disease caused by severe vitamin deficiency).. so he started treating some of his mental hospital patients with "megadoses" of vitamin B3, and many of them started getting better... over the next few decades, he refined his treatment, ran many tests ("triple blind studies") and got into big feud with the APA...
he has written several books on coping with mental illness, and many physicians have tried his methods with some of their patients, often with marked success... and others have tried it (or investigated it) and claimed it's a load of hogwash...
i suspect that not every case of clinically diagnosed schizophrenia (although some shrinks consider "schizophrenia" to be a cluster of mental disorders with similar symptoms...) will respond to treatment with "megavitamin therapy" or "orthomolecular psychiatry", but (following the hippocratic oath dictum "first, do no harm") it certainly seems safer to give a "crazy person" large doses of a vitamin than phenothiazine tranquilizers, electroconvulsive therapy (shock treatments), or prefontal lobotomy... imho...
a few hundred milligrams per day of niacinamide (or of inositol hexanicotinate) is often enough to stop those pesky hallucinations from messing up your reality interface program...
ymmv...
fnord!


--------------------
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not old enough to care


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: gnrm23]
    #1921957 - 09/16/03 05:20 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

waiting a bare minimum of 2 months between sessions.




Key statement in wiccan's post!


--------------------
This is the only time I really feel alive.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: baraka]
    #1922230 - 09/16/03 06:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm gonna quit shrooms now, when the bad times outweigh the good you know the parties over.

On my last trip I started getting paranoid hallucination, I thought everyone was talking about me & whenever I left a room I heard a friend making a sly remark, so I walked back in quickly and nobody was even talking just watching patterns on the computer. Eventually I was very confused & have decided my times are over with them, I can't handle the mind fuck.


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Offlinerockstafarian
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: Ego Death]
    #1922621 - 09/16/03 08:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Dont rush yourself. When your dealing with any issue as serious as schizofrenia, why take unnessesary risks. Find all of the information you can. Shrooms will always be there.


--------------------
^ Above post is complete fiction. ^


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1922752 - 09/16/03 08:41 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Zyprexa and Haldol.. Yup those are the mainstays of antipsychotic treatment. Highly unpleasant stuff in the initial months, especially Haldol.

Its pissing against the wind but he really ought to take his medicine. Psychosis seldom gets better and very often gets worse over time. There's positive symptoms (agression, stimulation etc) but far more detrimental in the long run are the negative symptoms (apathy, insufficient self-care, coping etc) Chronic psychosis has a hightened rate of either suicides or externalized violence, the latter being rarer.

I'm not going to debate stuff but simply going to state my opinion as I understand schizophrenia and psychosis.

Usually its a question of nature (genetics) and nurture, especially in early childhood. Fact of the matter is that psychotic disturbances tend to cluster in families, just like depression does. This means that allthough only one in two busloads of people (1%) will eventually turn out to have chronic psychotic disturbances (aka schizophrenia, just like "flu" is a word for all sorts of bugs it is merely a label) the chances of siblings and offspring of such people getting it is quite a lot larger.

A lot of people who will come up with schizophrenia have been a bit passive and did not do as much social stuff as their non-schizophrenic siblings from when they were young kids. But there is no guarantee, never. Most people who come up with it are described as being reasonably to perfectly "normal" until their malfunction surfaces.

People who are experiencing psychotic symptoms generally use wide gestures and limb/bodymovement and display signs of arousal. These are due to their elevated levels of Dopamine (3,4-dihydroxyphenethylamine)
Anything that hightens dopamine may praecipitate psychosis in those who are susceptible.

Well, basically all drugs that are of any interest influence either dopamine or its metabolism. Aside from that stressful episodes (positive and negative)can do the same.

Psychedelics highten dopamine and supply highly intense emotional states. I have been close to death repeatedly on the Intensive Care unit between christmas and new year (a month heartward after that) and i can absolutely guarantee you that bad trips I've had were distinctly intenser emotionally than the acute fear of death I experienced then.

Most experienced psychedelics users will vouch for the fact psychedelic experiences can be the most intense (=stressful)experiences known to man. I myself would rather have Mike Tyson knock me K.O. than having to deal with the force of 1/4 of strong shrooms for 5 hours. I'd merrily eat my own shit fresh from the bowl then 10 dried grams of good cubies. And this from one who has 68 trips in 10 years under his belt which started in 1993. I myself consider Mushrooms to be Divine. I know my chances of being able to deal with those doses are very slim and 1/4 ounce and upwards of strong mushrooms to me represent severe mental torture.

A lot of folks here routinely handle those doses, but they generally are not translocated to the mexican desert for shamanic instruction by a demigod shaman who uttered true clairvoyant messages (wrote them down and they came true in the months to follow), all this on 0.5 grams of liberty caps.


To the pre-psychotic a mild dose but especially a higher one can tip him or her over the edge and the rest is all downhill by the inertia of a developing illness. This need not happen the first time, perhaps not evenb on the fifth time. But your 100 session might be just the ticket to the land of rocksolid beliefs, a remarkable connectedness of seemingly unrelated things and severe B.O. due to omission of personal hygiene.

Your risk is higher than those of the general population. Life is all about taking risks. One in 50.000 parachutes does not open, one in 1.000 people gets involved in a traffic accident each year and a lot of us won't live to see our 50th birthday.
Life is full of risks. There are things you can avoid and other risks you take because the experience (like smoking) is pleasant.

All in all I would say that should you become a serious tripper your chance of developing one, more or chronic psychoses is about the same as one pop of russian roulette with one bullet in one of six chambers.
In five out of six cases things will be reasonably OK and you will have all sorts of earthshaking adventures, but shopuld the round get chambered it sucks to be you. I recommend nobody to become a tripper, so I won't recommend it to you, especially considering the hightened risks present.



.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: Asante]
    #1923867 - 09/17/03 02:06 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Good post Wiccan. Don't quite agree with you on the higher dose stuff tho, for me 25 dried grams of powerful cubies is absolute bliss but each to his own.


--------------------
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OfflineOBE
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: Xlea321]
    #1924554 - 09/17/03 10:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Man...


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Offlinemikey_
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1924629 - 09/17/03 11:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

yeah, listen to Wiccan_Seeker. Great post man.

i think people should also be aware that families often hide mental illness because it is too ***** to talk about.

before embarking on my drugs career, i asked my family about mental illness in the family and any other related problems.
to cut a long story short, my family lied to me and still do about mental illness in our family. they've covered up and never mentioned various things which are important. although i've found out now.

anyway, i've done my fair share of mushroom trips, both high and low dose. had one horrifyingly bad trip, learnt from it.

basically, start off small with your dosages and remember that you've got the rest of your life to explore these things, dont mess it up by doing too much too soon.


peace


--------------------
The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates


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OfflineOBE
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: mikey_]
    #1924709 - 09/17/03 11:58 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Thanx for the advice people. Kind of a hard decision to make. Perhaps I'm worried about nothing, we'll see. One thing I know is that i'm gonna take lot's of vitamins and juices with me, IF would decide to take it. I like taking risks, but not with my mind. I have no idea about the dose we're gonna take ,me and mmy friends are mostly first-timers. The plan is to go into the woods, miles away from civilisation.
I'll give you people a trip report, if one should exist.


Edited by OBE (09/17/03 05:37 PM)


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OfflineOBE
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1959261 - 09/28/03 11:05 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

For those who care...
I ate about two doses of psilocybe colombiescens, or rather colombian mushrooms. I didn't really had a trip tough. Think it were such good shrooms. After about an hour I started drinking beer, wich tastes abnormally good, and started smoking mj. Man that was a long day.

From about 15.00 till 04.00 i've been fighting against crashing wich was probably the effect from the excessive drinking and smoking. Felt kinda lazy tough while my friends al wanted to take ridiculously long and meaningless walks in the mountains.

One of us did trip tough, and after taking only only dose. After thirty minutes he looked like he had been laying there for days. From there on he kinda was a corpse we had to drag along.

Problem:
Since i didn't really trip, i kinda feel i have to do it again. Wich is probably not a good idea if i want to preserve my mental health. But if i don't i just took a risk for nothing.


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OfflineJackolantern
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Re: Mushrooms and schizophrenia [Re: OBE]
    #1960179 - 09/28/03 06:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Schizophrenia can't just manifest itself all of a sudden after taking 1 does of shrooms. You have to have been developing symptoms or have had the symptoms of schizophrenia for quite some time beforehand. As any hallucinogen fucks with your mental perceptions, I would recommend against taking it if you have had any of the symptoms that would be attributed to developing schizophrenia...


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