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psychoactive drugs and mental illness.
    #2073156 -

it has been warned on many occasions that psychoactive drugs can precipitate neuroses or psychoses in those who are already at risk. and more importantly, research now indicates that marijuana use increases the risk of depression, as well as schizophrenia. has anyone experienced or know someone that has become more ill due to psychoactive drugs?

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0503c.shtml


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  Vaporbrothers :smile:

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2073269 -

This is a debated topic, there is not a definite answer yet that I'm aware of; I have found that certain drugs affect my mental affects in different ways. Some say that pot can worsen pre-existing depression, but only temporarily (provided they stop smoking). IMO, steer clear of stimulant drugs, especially amphetamines and cocaine, if you have mental problems. No one I know has gone 'crazy' because of moderate drug use, but my Rx amphetamine salts have taken me very close, and a very good friend went through cocaine psychosis. Still, I think that drugs, because of their stressful nature (good or bad), could precipitate a latent mental illness. I believe that stories like that are biased, because a healthy individual could have e.g. latent schizophrenia and a bad LSD trip could be the stress needed for a schizophrenic break. But everyone reacts differently to psychoactives. I have a number of mental ailments and have not had problems with psychoactive use - but I am very cautious. Above all, these ramblings are all personal opinion, and do not take them as facts. I haven't studied psychology in quite some time, and I'm far from any kind of doctor.


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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: AuroricDistortions]
    #2073518 -

a doctor is just going to say stay away from drugs, period. its nice to hear from personal experiences though, thanks.


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  Vaporbrothers :smile:

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2074371 -

I have a friend who smoked too much opium who introduces himself as Robert plant and Jim morrison.. He never say's anything that really makes any sense.. Another friend of mine went nuts from doing too much coke and heroin and in a similar fashion.. He's in the psyke ward now..

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2074827 -

A little history on my own psychological issues and drug use...

I started smoking weed a couple years ago, on an on-and-off basis, probably a total of about 40 times in all. I had a couple of extremely intense experiences and near/total ego loss after smoking. I'm not sure if what I smoked was dipped or laced or whatever, but my experience was pretty fucked up and terrifying.

Fast forward to 7-8 months ago. I had stopped smoking for a few months, when one day after school my friends and I stopped by another friend's house to pick up some bud for them. They smoked a bowl or two, I abstained as usual, but I did catch a pretty strong odor of bud smoke. Once I got back to the car I started thinking about what it was like to be high, and instantly I started "feeling it". I thought that I had inhaled some second hand and was possibly experiencing some type of contact high. I was kind of tweaked out by the whole thing but I thought it would pass. Boy was I wrong..

The next day I woke up and realized that I felt extremely strange. The closest thing I can relate it to was feeling stoned. I felt like I was living in a dreamworld, like a character in a movie. I couldn't meet my own eyes in the mirror, people's faces looked cartoonish. It was absolutely horrifying. I had never been in such a terrible state in my entire life. Honestly it's impossible to describe, but imagine everything seeming INTENSELY unreal. There was a layer of static over my vision that made things ever more fucked up and prevented me from being able to read like I once could.Things get so strange and surreal that I get extremely panicked like I was having a bad trip, that's how intense the feeling is. Eventually I told my parents after the symptoms persisted a couple days, and my dad did some research. He found information on a condition called "depersonalization" or "derealization". It's a dissociative disorder, and there's no conclusive proof on the causes, but many sufferers cite marijuana. www.DEPERSONALIZATION.INFO is a good site that describes things better than I can. "Depersonalization Disorder is characterized by a persistent or recurrent feeling of being detatched from one's mental processes or body that is accompanied by intact reality testing."

Anyway it's lasted about 7 months now, and honestly I can't see it ever going away. It's reduced my life to something pretty terrible. I consider it being sentenced to an early death in many ways. I've see multiple shrinks, taken all kinds of drugs, undergone hypnotherapy, and nothing has helped so far. But I'm hopeful for the future.

Please keep in mind that I have no ill feelings towards drugs of any kind, especially weed. I loved getting high with my friends and I'd give anything to do it again. I support exploration into the world of drugs, but it's my opinion that it can lead to some conditions in people who have a predisposition to mental illness.

Thanks for reading,

Logan

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2075531 -

I am bi polar and on medication and i smoke pot daily and eat mushrooms when they are in season. I try to stay away from drugs like ectasy, meth, coke, and so on. i dont find that it messes anything up. I guess because im so used to it now.


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buisness is kickin yo butt

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2075980 -

Thanks for the story, but I'm puzzled.
You would have to inhale a fuckload of second hand smoke to get the teeniest bit high. Do you really think your condition is caused by marijuana?

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: zeta]
    #2076090 -

No disrespect to the user,but from their post I think it's apparent they suffer from a severe anxiety disorder. People like this (myself included) can get blown away from contact highs. I remember one day when Papaver was tripping off some 'cid and I felt like I was tripping just from reading his altered style of speaking.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: monoamine]
    #2076129 -

post deleted by nubious.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

Edited by nubious (07/11/05 06:38 PM)

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: nubious]
    #2076587 -

Jaw clenching is due to an od of the drug to where it ceomces toxic to the bopdy. At the correct clinical doasage you would not get the jaw clenching effects. The ddifference between ex and mda is thatt on MDA you take you clothes off and fu k for 8-10 houyrs and on X yuou hug and tell everyone hopw beautioful every thing is and how beautiful you are and they are and so on and so forth. Wthe eye flickers are very common on both drugs. but their is a physical limit. People who do this shit more than onece a week are already abnusing their bodies by trying to feel what they felt the o first time they triped on x. IT doesn't happen because i you build a very fast tolerance tot he phenylethylamines in your system.



mj

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: nubious]
    #2076592 -

There's no doubt that anxiety plays a part in it, it plays a part in all dissociative disorders. I'm not sure if it was "caused" by weed, but I think it may have been precipitated by it, my already-heightened sense of perception was taken to an uncomfortable level by experience of intense highs. I realize I wasn't actually stoned from the second hand smoke, but the smell triggered *memories* of being stoned, and my mind took it from there. I don't know if I would've gone on living without depersonalization even if I had never touched weed. I have a feeling that smoking, or getting my mind blown as hard as it was at times, definitely didn't help my distorted sense of reality.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2076654 -

it has been warned on many occasions that psychoactive drugs can precipitate neuroses or psychoses in those who are already at risk.

Important thing in this is "those who already at risk". None of the recreational drugs are going to affect someone with a stable character and mind. If you're already ill, then drugs might make it worse, going to work might make it worse, breaking up with your girlfriend might make it worse etc.

But if you're stable to begin with and sensible about your use - forget about it. There's nothing to worry about.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Xlea321]
    #2077299 -

It's been studied that people with extrodanary gifts are borderline "mentally ill", they just adapted to it better than others. Einstein is a prime example. For drugs to "trigger" these things in people, it's only fueling the creative genious they already posses.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: nubious]
    #2077349 -

i suffer from acute schizophrenia, and i feel quite dissociated every day. the psychologyst and drug counseler i went to attribute this to my extensive abuse of dxm (2 or 3 times a week for a year in doses well over 750mgs), my extensive use of lsd in a short time frame, and a few traumatic events including seeing my girlfriend at the time crash on a bicycle at about 40 mph on some far back road, and just sitting there holding her for about 10 minutes before anyone drove by, while she was going into seisures and bleeding of her face. now that happend in the middle of my heaviest period of drug use. well all in all, i dont really mind the little bit of schizo and dissociation that i aquired, i feel like im almost tripping everyday. i only get visual hallucinations probably 2 or 3 times a week, but they dont bother me, and usually only last a few seconds.
i still do all the drugs i used to and more, but now i wait longer in between doing them.

~JSlice~


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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2077419 -

hey angryjslice whats schizoprhenia like... cuase after taking shrooms that scared the hell outta me.. i ask myself questions.. then answer them right away in my head dunno wat it is pretty werid tho... only when im like in thought.. when im active doing somehting things r ok..

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: angryjslice]
    #2077559 -

Perhaps those events triggered the initial onset of schizophrenia but you can't "cause" schizophrenia in someone who isn't genetically predisposed to it. My friend has never taken a drug in his life and developed it during the usual time frame - late teens/early twenties.

A person is at higher risk for developing schizophrenia if they:

Are a male between the ages of 15 and 24

Are a female between the ages of 25 and 34

Have a close relative with the illness

Had a medical problem surrounding their birth

Q: Does stress play a part in schizophrenia?

A: There is no evidence that stress is a cause of schizophrenia. Sometimes emotionally significant events in people's lives will precede an episode of illness, but the basis for the illness must already be present.

http://yourmedicalsource.com/library/schizophrenia/SCH_faq.html



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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Xlea321]
    #2077934 -

I dont think it can cause Schizophrenia, But it certainly will reveal it if you didnt know you had it.

I am Bipolar. i smoke weed alot, ive robo tripped a few times and eat mushrooms every so often.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Xlea321]
    #2078280 -

Quote:
Alex123 said:
Perhaps those events triggered the initial onset of schizophrenia but you can't "cause" schizophrenia in someone who isn't genetically predisposed to it. My friend has never taken a drug in his life and developed it during the usual time frame - late teens/early twenties.

A person is at higher risk for developing schizophrenia if they:

Are a male between the ages of 15 and 24

Are a female between the ages of 25 and 34

Have a close relative with the illness

Had a medical problem surrounding their birth

Q: Does stress play a part in schizophrenia?

A: There is no evidence that stress is a cause of schizophrenia. Sometimes emotionally significant events in people's lives will precede an episode of illness, but the basis for the illness must already be present.

http://yourmedicalsource.com/library/schizophrenia/SCH_faq.html





i fit in that age range for males, and i had spinal meningitis at birth. im sure that contributed. also my father used lsd frequently, not sure if that makes a difference or not.

i was told by my psychologist (psychiatrist maybe? dont know the difference) at the time that the intense situations probably triggered it. its acute schizophrenia, which means i only exhibit some of the syptoms, not full blown. i definetly feel it everyday though.


~JSLice~


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Edited by angryjslice (11/06/03 07:37 PM)

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: nubious]
    #2078834 -

What you just described sounds exactly like an amphetamine psychosis. I experienced a relatively minor form of it a few years ago from using too much Adderall/Dexedrine.It was so unpleasant that I have not touched an amphetamine since.

MDMA,as you probably know,is a modified amphetamine with some psychedelic effects caused by its unique action on serotonin. Tolerance quickly builds to its psychedelic effect,and if heavily abused becomes more like normal amphetamine. This increased dopamine over time can lead to psychosis often consisting of paranoid delusions.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

Edited by monoamine (11/06/03 09:58 PM)

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Xlea321]
    #2081236 -

>> "'it has been warned on many occasions that psychoactive drugs can precipitate neuroses or psychoses in those who are already at risk.'

>>Important thing in this is 'those who already at risk'. None of the recreational drugs are going to affect someone with a stable character and mind. If you're already ill, then drugs might make it worse, going to work might make it worse, breaking up with your girlfriend might make it worse etc.

>>But if you're stable to begin with and sensible about your use - forget about it. There's nothing to worry about."



I find this comment pretty insensitive. I consider myself of "stable character and mind", and always have considered myself that way. We're talking about chemical predispositions here, and guess what, there *is* something to worry about every time you use any kind of psychoactive drugs. It's always a risk, no matter how sensible or controlled your use is, it's always potentially hazardous. Let me make myself clear again, I'm all for exploration of one's self (and recreation as well) through drug use, but claiming that there's nothing to worry about is pretty fucking naive. Let me put it this way, I consider almost every human being on earth "at risk" for mental illness, it's really not that hard to break down even someone of "stable character and mind". How the fuck can someone even know if they're mentally stable? Shit, I would've sworn I was before this started and I'd still swear I was better adjusted than 95% of my peers today even though my head is in the fucking clouds. The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2081466 -

^^ Agreed. Great post.

I too have always been very stable, but ecstasy brought me out into months of anxiety and panic attacks. I don't fuck with strong psychoactives much anymore.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2081767 -

"How the fuck can someone even know if they're mentally stable?"

I am, its not to hard to know that, hell when I felt unstable was 16-19 around 20.....everything got to be smooth sailing , so for myself I know

"The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation."

For almost ALL psychedelic drugs IMO, thats not the case at ALL, unless there is already a risk.


"mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere"
that I just cant belive , it seems that the theory goes that everything is fine you are walking in the sunshine then....WHAM

you are depressed !!!!!!!

things like this IMO, come from the way we live , pollution, stress TV (overstimulation)

these things are CAUSED!, they dont just pop up

people in the third world are happier, REALLY alot of them are
why is this??????
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/





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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2082306 -


>>>"things like this IMO, come from the way we live , pollution, stress TV (overstimulation)

>>>these things are CAUSED!, they dont just pop up"



That's why I used the word "seemingly". Hindsight is 20/20, and of course we can look back and figure our factors in our lives which lead to the appearance of a mental illness, but in the moment it's hard to notice if you're not looking for it.


>>>"'The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation.'

>>>For almost ALL psychedelic drugs IMO, thats not the case at ALL, unless there is already a risk."


The point I was making is that, yes, drug use can contribute to mental illness "sneaking up" on someone. You're not arguing my points, I've acknowledged that I'm operating under the assumption that theres a "risk" already present. It's my position that intense drug experiences can push someone over the precipice.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2082420 -

Psilocybeingzz said:
people in the third world are happier, REALLY alot of them are
why is this??????


Uhm, sorry? Where did you get this from? You don't have a clue how lucky we are to live in the (highly) developed countries.


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2083032 -

I find this comment pretty insensitive. I consider myself of "stable character and mind"

It's a point Arthur Janov makes in his book "The Primal Scream". He found that people who have explored and healed their neurosis don't have psychedelic experiences that upset their mental health - they just experience a little increased perception, enhancement of nature, emotional feelings that they can work with. Nothing that's going to drive anyone into a straitjacket.

We're talking about chemical predispositions here, and guess what, there *is* something to worry about every time you use any kind of psychoactive drugs. It's always a risk, no matter how sensible or controlled your use is, it's always potentially hazardous.

But it's no more potentially hazardous than getting a girlfriend, or getting a job or any other experience in life that may involve stress. There are millions of people who have suffered mental illness after their girlfriend left them, FAR more than who became ill after taking mushrooms, is getting a girlfriend a "risk"?

Let me put it this way, I consider almost every human being on earth "at risk" for mental illness

Sure we can all get depressed and anxious, but mental illness in the sense of schizophrenia?

The point is, mental illness can seemingly come out of nowhere, and it can sneak up on you with amazing rapidity, *especially* when mind-altering drugs are in the equation.

Mind altering drugs do not cause mental illness. If you are predisposed to mental illness any stressful experience may bring it on. Using drugs can be a stressful experience for some people. For me and many people I know it's pure euphoric bliss. And as Shulgin said "Euphoria is good for you".


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Xlea321]
    #2083178 -

"Uhm, sorry? Where did you get this from? You don't have a clue how lucky we are to live in the (highly) developed countries."

Bullshit.

You dont have a clue about the fact the America has the highest rate of suicide in the world!!!!

our "perfect" modern societies seem to be flawed

here is only ONE example of how the west is way more deppressed then the east, and check even the MOST basic thingsa about depression, they will agree.

but here is something closer to what I am talking about
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/
why no comment on the article in the first place?????

Anyway personally I am happy as a pig in shit, 16-19 seemed to be the hardest part of life , but for years not it has been smooth sailing, but that doesnt mean I dont notice things around me.

by the way, I realize how people in the east suffer, trust me I know all about that, the WESTERN WAY OF LIFE HAS MENTAL SIDE EFFECTS that can sometimes be very unhealthy.


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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2083231 -

Good point psilo. I read somewhere that mental illness is more prevalent in richer countries.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2083315 -

Quote:
You dont have a clue about the fact the America has the highest rate of suicide in the world!!!!



That isn't quite true... Some suicide stats:

Japan and most of Western Europe have low rates of suicide

The US, Australia, and Canada have intermediate rates

Finland, New Zeland and Estonia have high rates.

Taken from: Johnoson, Krug, & Potter (2000) Suicide among adolescents and adults: a cross-national comparison of 34 countries.

*lurk mode back on*


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-aut disce aut discede-

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: raas]
    #2083534 -

I suspect that taking a fair amount of E over a period of 2 years made me feel more generally anxious about life by raking up issues that are easy to ignore until the lid is blown off your defense mechanisms by such a drug. I am also becoming more adult (early 20's) and taking on more real-life responsibilities. Plus, the world is definitely a shittier place than it was a few years ago. I do not know if I am mentally ill or if I was just a carefree kid in the past and now I am a fearful, anxious adult. I am not comparing my situation to a serious case of mental illness which impairs ones life, just a bit of a downhill feeling where my mental stability is concerned, which may have had something to do with the drugs. Incidentally, I do not think that mushrooms contributed to this at all, just E makes me feel uneasy.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: garbage]
    #2083620 -

Theres also the flip side (no pun intended) that abstinance can result in the buildup of toxins that the body produces in response to emotional stress, which a certain amount of drugs,alcohol, and tobacco might reduce.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2083666 -

Regarding marijuana, psychedelics, other drugs, and depression.

I used to have pretty severe depression; I was put on two different SSRIs (Prozac, Paxil). I never fully attempted suicide, but the thought crossed my mind many times during this phase of my life.

Marijuana completely took me out of my depression. I can hardly even relate to the boy I was during that phase of my life; as I sit here typing this, suicide is unthinkable.

Psychedelics (I've done many...AMT, LSD, mushrooms, DMT, 2C-T-7, MDMA, DXM, salvia extract) have granted me a new perspective and outlook on life, as well as cultivated my interest in eastern philosophy. I feel I am much more optimistic and open-minded due to psychedelics; and while on psychedelics, I am usually very collected and "sane" (unlike many of my friends who flip out or act strangely on mushrooms). When under the influence of any psychedelic, some people have the possibility of getting stuck on this plane of consciousness by holding complete attachment to it; I think this is when psychosis becomes an issue.

Stimulants can become an issue because the euphoria and energy imbued by them is extremely pleasant; it affects the dopamine reward center of the brain in order to give the user a happiness that he feels he has no other way of experiencing. This euphoria (given by cocaine, amphetamines, etc.) is not associated with the euphoria of marijuana or psychedelics in the mind of the stimulant user. For the same reason that stimulants can lead lives down a high (really high) way to Hell, opiates are even worse. Of course, this is just my opinion; but heroin has killed many great minds. There is too much desire wrapped up in the opiate experience; people do not want to come down from the cloud that they are floating on.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read my opinion on the issue.


--------------------
Peace and love,
Tim.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2086482 -

Quote:
Psilocybeingzz said:
"Uhm, sorry? Where did you get this from? You don't have a clue how lucky we are to live in the (highly) developed countries."

Bullshit.

You dont have a clue about the fact the America has the highest rate of suicide in the world!!!!

our "perfect" modern societies seem to be flawed

here is only ONE example of how the west is way more deppressed then the east, and check even the MOST basic thingsa about depression, they will agree.

but here is something closer to what I am talking about
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/
why no comment on the article in the first place?????

Anyway personally I am happy as a pig in shit, 16-19 seemed to be the hardest part of life , but for years not it has been smooth sailing, but that doesnt mean I dont notice things around me.

by the way, I realize how people in the east suffer, trust me I know all about that, the WESTERN WAY OF LIFE HAS MENTAL SIDE EFFECTS that can sometimes be very unhealthy.



Sorry for the rant here and no offence intended, but you are talking complete bullshit. I'm not saying we live in a perfect society. I'm saying we are living in a hugely better one than the third world. And that's why we should consider ourselves lucky.
Suicide rates don't say shit about the general happiness of a country. Suicides here are more of a luxury problem IMO. In the third world where people are constantly doing their best to survive, the thought of suicide doesn't come up. And I'm not talking about the asian countries now, many of them are at least moderately developed.

I still think we are truly lucky to be born here in the developed world. Sure people can get depressed or even contemplate suicide. I'm also depressed some time. But that's your (or my) own fault then. We can't complain, we are always (over)fed, we have relatively good places to live. We can express our mind, educate ourselves and entertain ourselves with a lot of luxury. All the basics are there, now it's up to us to make a good life for ourselves. If you can't manage that, then that's too bad, but don't complain about society.

Sure our societies aren't perfect in a lot of ways, like the drug-laws. But drugs are a secondary need. We have our basic needs, our freedom and a lot of opportunities (in comparison to the third world at least)


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2086530 -

I think what psilocybeingzz might be getting at is what value we place life and our priorities in the west is *hollow* compared to *earning* your living in the east. The fact that they have to struggle to eat, makes eating and just being able to go on - satisfying on some fundamental level of the soul. Where as for the most part, *our* culture is shallow and materialistic with little spiritual content, little satisfaction, little substance, little importance and little value. We dont appreciate the things they appreciate and that catalyzes mental illness (see; depression).

They are going to place ALOT of value on VERY small things, they often have the power of faith and hope, they have something to believe in, and they are going to make the best of it. Comparatively, what do we have? Material things - even if its as simple as food and comfort and safety - thats what we have, and that doesnt satisfy the soul, or whatever you want to title it, for many. What do we have faith in? Politicians? The corporate state? That our families have enough savings that when dad gets laid off over christmas we can still buy Tommy that $210 racecar track for under the tree?

Im not sure thats what he's saying...but....


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2086550 -

Psilocybeingzz said:
http://adbusters.org/magazine/36/toxic/
why no comment on the article in the first place?????



I read the beginning of your article and think it's bullshit too. Some naive Greenpeace people blaming society because they aren't happy.
Quote:
They suggest that cultural toxins have now reached dangerously high levels, helping to explain the high school shootings, the skyrocketing use of legal and illegal psychoactive drugs, our growing problems with obesity and psychosomatic illness, rage in public places, and the general sense of cynicism and hopelessness that is enveloping our culture.


Come on, those people are saying that psychoactive drug use is a sign of a bad society.

They are saying, there are cultural toxins everywhere. I don't see this around me. I don't hear of depressed people everywhere. It's mostly just people who are temporarily a bit depressed. So what? Life isn't all good, it will get better again.
People are just so rich now, that when they get depressed they don't want to deal with it, they just want to pop a few pills. Fine, take a few pills if they make you feel better, but if you never face up do your depression and fight through, it will never get better without the pills. That's where the problem lies IMO.
It's way worse in America, because people get pills for everything, even kids FFS.


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: PDU]
    #2086563 -

Quote:
I think what psilocybeingzz might be getting at is what value we place life and our priorities in the west is *hollow* compared to *earning* your living in the east. The fact that they have to struggle to eat, makes eating and just being able to go on - satisfying on some fundamental level of the soul. Where as for the most part, *our* culture is shallow and materialistic with little spiritual content, little satisfaction, little substance, little importance and little value. We dont appreciate the things they appreciate and that catalyzes mental illness (see; depression).



Okay that sounds right. We should be glad that we don't have to worry or work much for food and housing. We should be glad that we have the opportunity to spend our lives doing different things. Now it's up to use to make those things worth it for us (and others).

But then the cause of this isn't society, just the fact that we are so rich. Deal with it is what I say. Try to appreciate your wealth.
Sometimes (usually when I'm stoned), I just look around me, see my room, the stuff I have (or can have) acces to, just being able to acces the internet and get info on nearly everything, having the opportunity to buy some drugs and expand my mind, etc, etc. Then I just realise how lucky I am and that it's not up to society to make my life good, it's up to me. And granted, I could do way more to make my life better and it isn't always good, but I don't go bitching on society for that. That's just my problem, which I will have to sort out.

I don't need my life to have a bigger meaning. I just want to live it and see what life has to offer. I don't believe in a god or spiritual things, just that through a pretty amazing sequence of events, life started, and I get to have a piece of life as a conscious life form.

And if people are so unhappy with our rich society and the fact that they're in it, then just buy a plane ticket, go to the poor nations, buy some land, dump the rest of your money and struggle to grow your food and build your housing. Good luck...


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futuretribe.space

Edited by cybrbeast (11/09/03 01:18 PM)

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2086589 -

Quote:
Okay that sounds right. We should be glad that we don't have to worry or work much for food and housing. We should be glad that we have the opportunity to spend our lives doing different things. Now it's up to use to make those things worth it for us (and others).




Thats just it, It is up to us, but people arnt doing anything with it. People in the East or wherever are often forced into valuing the little they do have, Forced - as in its not an option, they dont need to figure it out for themselves, its do or die, its just how it is.
You go onto say that society's to blame, no one's arguing this, we're arguing happiness. Happiness would have to first be defined - does artificial materialistic happiness overpower true faith, ethical morality, true love, and hardwork?, if so, who makes the call? Anyways, in reality, its beside the point.... Furthur in your argument you really seem to defend your personal stance's, Why? It has nothing to do with your previous argument, Your Opinion DOESNT reflect MOST of society, and THATS the problem.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: PDU]
    #2086712 -

No, I believe you are misunderstanding me. I'm not blaming society at all. I'm praising society for being a place where I can live in comfort and freedom if I chose to do so.
My argument was that it's wrong to blame society for your problems, blame yourself. Do something, or don't. That's not my problem.

I define happines as a general feeling of physical and mental well-being. Wether that feeling comes from materialism, spiritualism, family, importance or jacking off doesn't matter.
So probably a lot of people in the west don't feel happy. But people who are fighting to survive usually aren't happy and really want to live in a better place like we do.

I give my personal stance just as an illustration of someone in the west who can appreciate the wealth he is born into and doesn't bitch about society when he's unhappy.
I don't try to defend my personal stance either, I just think it can't hurt to appreciate the relative wealth we have here. Bash my stance if you want to and have a good argument.


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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: cybrbeast]
    #2086732 -

I agree, we should be appreciative, fair enough, i can accept what you have to say as pretty much truth.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: PDU]
    #2086805 -

Okay, that's cool, discussion settled then :smile:
Now where are you Psilocybeingzz?


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futuretribe.space

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: Antoine_Roquetin]
    #2087154 -

"In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king"

In the land of the blind a man with sight is not normal.

One could say his condition was abnormal and contributes to emotional and mental disorder, to a degree requiring psychiactric intervention.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man should perhaps keep his gift under his hat, and enjoy his gift with courteous humility.

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: castaway]
    #2088606 -

Castaway: I think what you said there is really pretty deep, and it was where I was hoping this discussion would go. Care to elaborate?

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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: TurnpikeGates]
    #2106892 -

I used to share the romantic notion that schiz and other mental illnesses were signs of 'genius' or evolution that were persecuted by society. I used to untill my girlfriend of ten years succumbed rapidly and suddenly to a host of mental illnesses so extreme I took her to the emergency room finally. What we found out there changed my view of extreme mental illness forever.

I am here to tell you: Almost all mental illness is caused by actual physical maladies. Amongst those, most is due to simple food allergies. Eliminate the allergen from the diet, and the mental symptoms disappear. For some people it is wheat, for others it is certain additives. For my girlfriend, it turned out to be caffeine and chocolate. Check out the article posted below, and that whole site as well. It is very informative.

The Standard Recommended "Schizophrenia" Nutritional and Dietary Regimen: A remarkable 90% recovery rate:
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/schizdiet.htm

( by the way, my research also uncovered suggestions that the increased adrenal activity in a sufferer will cause the brain to manufacture its own lsd - like compounds. Thus the similarity to tripping and the ability of those agents to aggravate a latent condition. )


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Re: psychoactive drugs and mental illness. [Re: brainwreck]
    #2108813 -

Mental illness can be caused by just about anything. For some people, a strange reaction to chocolate could blow their minds into chaos. Still, a predispotion towards mental illness is required, regardless of the apparent cause of the insanity. Sure, your girlfriend's nuttiness may have been precipitated by chocolate and caffeine, but these drugs do not cause these problems in themselves. She must have had an extremely fragile mental self, that chocolate would drive her insane.

Drugs increase the risk of illness "coming out" (in people who are predisposed) because they fuck with your mind! Anything that alters one's consciousness will aggravate those with already fragile minds. I experiment only with LSD, mushrooms and pot. None of these drugs has driven me insane, but I have certainly had serious psychological issues concerning each one. Pot sometimes affects my memory so seriously at times that I feel I am no longer "myself". This same effects can be pleasurable, however, when I seek to forget my worries. Shrooms are an alien entity that penetrate your consciousness via naturally-produced tryptamines. Your mind is not entirely your own when you are on mushrooms - the mushrooms are playing an active role in your awarenss. this psychic partnership can be quite enjoyable for some, but disconcerting to others. Acid increases one's own innate (sober) awareness to the point that their mind is "opened". This is the most precious feeling in the world to some, but to others it creates uncomfortable dissociation, due to the sheer amount of self-awareness involved.

So in conclusion, I think the effects of psychedelic drugs can be reacted to in any way, including by mental illness. Someone who is likely to go insane because of drugs should know themselves well enough that they can avoid such a thing re-occuring.

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