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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes. [Re: micro]
    #2072704 - 11/05/03 11:07 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

micro, why will i end up with goo? from this page http://www.nansnook.com/archives/tek/mycoalki.htm 
i gathered that
"By Searcher (Novice) on Sunday,
December 08, 2002 - 02:55 pm: Edit
Here are the results from my first methanol soak:

Yielded 3.85 grams of crystals from 8 ounces of mycelium. But wait, there's more! Remember we're doing three, consecutive soaks. Looks like we'll be getting even more residues out of soaks 2 & 3:

Miscellaneous notes on the methanol: You'll note that this residue us lighter in color than residue gleaned from the water soaks. Also, this residue comes out dryer - no intermediate "tar" stage. "

i believe the methanol helps prevent this tar stage, as the crystals precipitate directly out of solution.  Well either way, there is no good step by step photographed tek of this, and that needs to be changed :smile:  does anyone know if the concentration of alkaloids increase once a cake has fruited?

~JSlice~


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes. [Re: angryjslice]
    #2072872 - 11/05/03 12:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I've never got crystals from methanol; only from acetic acid/ether. You won't get all the psilocybin to precipitate out of the methanol -- it's soluble.

I think the psilocybin concentration goes up once it's about to pin; I don't know if it goes up a lot more in consecutive flushes, but there's still a fairly high alkaloid concentration (with respect to concentration of alkaloids in mycelium, which is, of course, low.)

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OfflineSeraph
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes. [Re: micro]
    #2073498 - 11/05/03 04:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i just asked nan about that link. and he concluded that the pics in that photo are of crystals extracted from fruit bodies. so even if you expect it to work dont expect crystals.
heres a link to the post:
http://www.nansnook.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13620


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes. [Re: Seraph]
    #2073618 - 11/05/03 04:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i agree that the photos are from fruitbodies but almost to the bottom of the page, the guy named "searcher" says he "Yielded 3.85 grams of crystals from 8 ounces of mycelium." on the first methanol wash.  if only there was a way to contact this 'searcher' and find out exactly what he did.  i refuse to give up this easy, there is magic in them cakes, and i want it...in crystal form.  hehe, it might take some experimenting, but ill get it, and show yall the pics :smile:


~JSlice~


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes. [Re: angryjslice]
    #2074380 - 11/05/03 08:36 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to know the efficiency of crystalizing it that way. No doubt you'll get precipitation of lots of things, but psilocybin is very alcohol soluble.... Even in the freezer I would think a lot would remain in solution....

It would be really nice if you could, though, because crystals are very easy to dissolve, so this would be a great way to purify it further....

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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: micro]
    #2074773 - 11/05/03 10:07 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

after much looking around (about 45 minutes of searching) i found this tasty little treat...looks like i dont need to do a photo tek.

http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/18535.html

searcher compares several things such as water, 151 proof alcohol, isopropyl, acetone and methanol. all with delicious photos. methanol provides some yellowish looking crystals. now i am trying to decide whether to do a isopropyl extraction or a methanol...searcher used 99% isopropyl, i only have 91%, think thatd be alright?

~JSlice~


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Offlinelittlejohn747
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: angryjslice]
    #2074940 - 11/05/03 10:49 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

very nice read....it really makes you say hmmmmm, i think at this point someone really needs to do some experimenting


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: littlejohn747]
    #2075030 - 11/05/03 11:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I see a residue -- no crystals. I think you're looking at the vermiculite and stuff that was filtered out of the suspention in the first place. The alkaloids should still be in the methanol; the crap on the coffee filter is what is supposed to be thrown out.

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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: micro]
    #2075264 - 11/06/03 12:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

no i thought that this picture was crystal (from methanol): http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/18446.jpg
if its not crystals what is it? searcher claims a friend of his tried it and was blasted out of his mind, so i assume that the alkaloids are in it. the alkaloids were in the methanol untill it is evaporated.

micro you said earlier that you use acetic acid (vinegar right?) and ether. what exactly did you do? ive seen numbers that the weight of 'residue' as you call it is almost identical between acetic acid and methanol, so if acetic acid does give you pure crystal, i guess this would be more worth it.

"From Lycaeum:
Concentraction of alkaloids by using aqueous acetic acid(Vinegar) for extraction of the dried mushrooms (%, dry weight).

P. Cubensis:
Psilocybin .45
Psilocin .25
Baeocystin 0


Amount of indole alkaloids in fruiting bodies by using pure methanol as solvent (%, dry weight).

P. Cubensis:
Psilocybin .63
Psilocin .11
Baeocystin .02

Aqueous acetic acid(Vinegar)total= .70

Methanol total= .76
"
so if im not confused here (which happens quite easily) your saying that with methanol extraction your getting more than just the psilo's and the baeocystin, where as acetic acid, you are getting just exactly the alkaloids that we want?

~JSlice~


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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: angryjslice]
    #2075355 - 11/06/03 12:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

That's a residue. Look at it; it was scraped with a razor blade.

To acetic acid extract: dissolve in dilute acetic acid and re-pH to 5; let it stand overnight. Re-pH to 8 and re-extract in ether, and evaporate the ether.

Re-extract in methanol, if you want.

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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: micro]
    #2075369 - 11/06/03 12:39 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

And, no. One is just better than the other.

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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: micro]
    #2075411 - 11/06/03 12:49 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
That's a residue. Look at it; it was scraped with a razor blade.

To acetic acid extract: dissolve in dilute acetic acid and re-pH to 5; let it stand overnight. Re-pH to 8 and re-extract in ether, and evaporate the ether .

Re-extract in methanol, if you want.

--
Micro




so if you evaporate the ether, isnt that also a residue...given it may be cleaner then methanol. i thought you were talking about having 100% precipitation of the alkaloids in solution, in which case couldnt you just pour off the ether through a filter? if all were looking for is quality of final product, it looks like isopropyl alcohol could do just as good of a job in getting something 'clean/non tar like' its just not quite as good at extracting all the alkaloids. i mean, dont all of these methods give you crystal, now were just arguing purity?

also, how fast does ether evaporate?

~JSlice~


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Re: Extraction of PF cakes *HIT PAY DIRT* [Re: angryjslice]
    #2076280 - 11/06/03 09:07 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Crysatals is a matter of purity -- if there's too much stuff in the mix you won't get a pure product, but more like a resin. So, I guess we are arguing purity. Any alcohol should extract the alkaloids.

Ether evaporates very, very quickly, but in order to extract with ether you have to first extract with acetic acid and then pH to 8 (be careful -- it's really easy to go above 8.)

--
Micro


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