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OfflineGao
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 43
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye
    #981704 - 10/22/02 02:56 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hey, my friend was trying to fruit PF Classic off straight rye. He works in a lab, is minoring in mycology at school, and is quite well versed in growing gourmet mushrooms, but this is his first foray into psychadelics. He isolated a vigorous sector PF Classic from a multispore innoculation onto PDYA, and then used that to start several rye spawn jars. One got contaminated with bacteria, but the fungus won the war. He couldn't use this jar for spawn, so he decided to fruit it directly, like a large cake. His setup was tried and proven for other mushrooms, and pins formed after a brief chilling period. However, 100% of them aborted. A friend who is very knowledgable in growing Psilocybes, you all may remember him from this board, Azure, told us a) The set up was cool. I really don't think it aborted due to growing conditions. And b) He has tried fruiting PF Classic off pasturized dung and straw, and that shit aborted as well. Is PF selling a degenerate strain, one that has the potential to fruit only on BRF and vermiculite? Also, what should I do with my remaining rye jars? I have 3 fully colonized, although I've been shaking them to keep the grains loose.

Anyway, I'm kinda pissed, the PF Tek is pretty weak if you are already used to bulk substrates, and I dont really want to make any life sized "Cakes". I guess I'll just have to get a print with some good genetics.

Thanks,

Gao


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #981780 - 10/22/02 03:52 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I heard a rumor that PF Classic doesn't do well in casings.

They like cakes....BRF cakes.

PM pleezr....he was trying to case PF Classic's once.
Ask him how he did....I don't know how his turned out.



--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinecanid
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #983723 - 10/22/02 06:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i've seen a lot of problems with PF Clasic casings. it seems to be a most consistant occurence.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #984103 - 10/22/02 07:53 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yeh, seems like PF was inbred one too many times or something... 

Silly hicks :smile: 


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: angryshroom]
    #984262 - 10/22/02 08:49 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yeh, seems like PF was inbred one too many times or something...

To be fair, the PF strain was bred for the pf-tek (i.e. cakes/brf) and does a fairly decent job fruiting from brf cakes. I do have to agree with you however, I have seen some odd looking fruit come out of the pf race.



--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineGao
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Seuss]
    #984940 - 10/22/02 11:36 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hrmmm, yeah, I was just pondering it a bit, and realized that the only pins that formed were at the Vermiculite/Cake interface (My friend put some verm on top to protect from drips, hydrate, etc.).

I know it is too late to actually break this guy up and case it with a peat based layer, however I wonder what would happen if my friend broke it up in a tray and cased it with 100% verm? I mean, it is laden with spores of contams now, so he couldn't use a brf/verm casing layer (which may be the only way for me to get this crap to fruit). Do you think that the rye would contaminate if he broke it up?


Edited by Gao (10/22/02 11:42 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #984949 - 10/22/02 11:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

PF IS GENETICALLY ENGINEERING THEIR SHROOMS TO ONLY SURVIVE WITH THEIR SUBSTRATES!


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Offlineblackout
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Anonymous]
    #985596 - 10/23/02 04:06 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

my PFs did very well cased. the grain was birdseed cased 50/50 very uniform flushing and fruit size and quite potent too there were abhorts but not many. it was a multispore innoc. i got my syringes as a replacement from PF when he had a batch of degraded syringes sent out. i think he was supposed to have gone back to his older prints to grow shrooms for his new batch of syringes so they should be better. i sent lots of prints to the FSRE i dont know how anybody got on with them though...


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #986694 - 10/23/02 03:28 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

As far as I know, PF has been selected to perform well with the PFTEK, on BRF/verm CAKES-nothing else. Rye is never mentioned in the PF TEK.
Why did you think it would work?


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #986901 - 10/23/02 04:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Because it's a strain of psilocybe cubensis, and every single other substrain of the selected genus/species has been able to fruit this way. It's a pretty normal thing to try things, not to mention the fact that others have been able to do it, so it's not impossible, just picky.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineGao
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Raadt]
    #988146 - 10/24/02 12:58 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

"As far as I know, PF has been selected to perform well with the PFTEK, on BRF/verm CAKES-nothing else. Rye is never mentioned in the PF TEK.
Why did you think it would work?"



Why shouldn't it NOT have worked? Rye is a highly nutritious medium. All else being equal, it should perform decently on rye compared to other strains of P. Cubensis. Inbreeding is a bitch.


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #988614 - 10/24/02 04:27 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

But the PF seems to be more of a 'one-off' type strain. It's only offered by 1 vendor. It's a 1 trick pony for the most part. I'd like to see it work in a Poo Tek. Cased or otherwise.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #989025 - 10/24/02 10:08 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i think other vendors do sell it under a different name


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: blackout]
    #991986 - 10/25/02 07:59 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Through selective isolation and the fact that they have grown this one mushroom for many 100s of generations on the one substrate has made this particular spore-race of cubensis selective and reliant on certain substrate mizes tio fruit and perform adequately.


--------------------


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InvisibleLana
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Registered: 10/28/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #992149 - 10/25/02 11:54 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Good thread,
I basically started something along the same lines over in the cult forum and was directed here by daussaulit.

A friend of mine has cased the PF strain many times over many years, with little or no success.  She's cased other strains but for some reason she plays with the PF strain becuase it "doesn't work" well on casings.  My friend likes a little challenge :smile:

Can a strain be developed to like or prefer one singular type of substrate?  I don't see how it could but maybe I'm wrong?

Any takers on that question?

Lana
 


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OfflinetelefunkenU47
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Registered: 08/03/02
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Seuss]
    #994462 - 10/26/02 10:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i have cased them with vermiculite and got decent success, but the cakes always seemed to do better. it's just the strain. it's prone to aborts and it prefers cakes to casings.


--------------------
Central Scrutinizer:
This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER...
That was Joe's first confrontation with The Law.
Naturally, we were easy on him.
One of our friendly counselors gave him
A do-nut...and told him to
Stick closer to church-oriented social activities.

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OfflinetelefunkenU47
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: blackout]
    #994463 - 10/26/02 10:43 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i've seen it elsewhere as matias romero.


--------------------
Central Scrutinizer:
This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER...
That was Joe's first confrontation with The Law.
Naturally, we were easy on him.
One of our friendly counselors gave him
A do-nut...and told him to
Stick closer to church-oriented social activities.

-Frank Zappa's "Joe's Garage"


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InvisibleMilletV
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Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 251
Loc: Rockies
Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Lana]
    #994560 - 10/26/02 12:49 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Lana, the pf classic strain is substrate specific, meaning that it only easily digests a certain substrate. This is a form of genetic mutation, caused by the lack of a diverse diet.

It is probable that the strain could be reconditoined to fruit on other subs, but it would be time consuming, and given the other qualtiy strains available, not very practical.

If I were to try to revive it I would do as follows....

Use different agar mixes and supplement them with various powdered subs. Transfer from one agar recipe to another until you get tired of agar work then see if it will fruit. The transfering will expose the mycelium to various nutrients, thereby creating diversity in its digestive enzymes, at least hypothetically.

Ive tried pf classic on various bulk subs, manure, castings, castings/straw and all it did was lay there. Because of the 'tunnel vision' way it has been propogated for all these years, I actually consider the pf classic to be an inferior strain by todays standards.


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OfflineHunterThomson
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Registered: 10/25/02
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Loc: I live in the state of mi...
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #994946 - 10/26/02 05:19 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Why try? Rye is a realy realy REALY! bad substrate. It produses vary week mushrooms wheth eny stran not just PF. Don't bother trying to grow on rye it is not worth it. Stick whith brf and maby add dextrose, 500mg of glycine a little oyster shell powder and some trace minerals.


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Offlineaural
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Registered: 05/04/00
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: HunterThomson]
    #996474 - 10/27/02 11:27 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

Why try? Rye is a realy realy REALY! bad substrate. It produses vary week mushrooms wheth eny stran not just PF. Don't bother trying to grow on rye it is not worth it. Stick whith brf and maby add dextrose, 500mg of glycine a little oyster shell powder and some trace minerals.





I call bullshit on that,bub...


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Offlinecujo7999
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Registered: 04/21/02
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: HunterThomson]
    #996501 - 10/27/02 11:54 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

yeah... rye is just worthless? what makes you say that? it seems to work well for lots of people; my cat included.


--------------------
*This is all Fiction by the Way*


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: cujo7999]
    #999091 - 10/28/02 04:32 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

ive read somewhere that PF has the original prints or stock cultures of the pf classic - these would ideal for reinvigorating these little fat-arses.
BRF is utter crap - rye is better and millet is SOOOOOOOO much better than any other cubensis substrate. I cant even feel the effects of 4.5 grams of cubies grown on brf - on millet it was ideal.


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Lana]
    #999118 - 10/28/02 04:53 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

  From how I understand it ...
After growing something on the same substrate generation after generation it's ability to synthesize many enzymes begins to diminish and in some cases can be completely lost.  After all if it encounters the same substrate again and again then it would be wasteful to continue to produce multiple enzymes (pricey to produce metabolically).  And it wouldn't offer any competitive advantagein this case, since it wouldn't have to produce outside of the originally dictated environment, so it wouldn't be a trait that is being selected for.  The only trait that would be of utmost importance here would be the ability to digest the standard PF cake.
  So if PF bred this strain out over the course of several years and many generations then it does seem somewhat feasible that it have become selective to the degree it seems to exhibit.
  yes?no? weird science?  :wink: 


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Offlinevader
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Re: PF Classic refusing to fruit on Rye [Re: Gao]
    #999773 - 10/28/02 01:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I've had great luck with the PF on straw and Dung cakes. It does colonize rye slow, but I have had success casing it. It took a while, but it produced a few large and huge fruits. There definately is some degeneration going on with the PF strain, it is evident by the very low (if any) spore production.

I also have tried and tried with grain cakes, but have not been able to get any strain to fruit off a grain cake. Until I tried this. After the grain cake is prepared (a cake, not a bunch of kernels) roll it around in some moist vermicilite so there is a tin layer over the whole cake. That will really make fruiting easier.


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