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OfflineTheCow
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Registered: 10/28/02
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Trapped in our minds
    #2073469 - 11/05/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I realize we take psychedelics to try and open our minds to the possiblities of the universe. But if you think about it. What are we really doing. We ingest a chemical, which then makes us think thoughts of oneness and gives us information about the origins of the universe and basic human thought. But how can we trust these answers? The chemical cannot leave our mind to go gather information somewhere else, it is trapped in our mind. Does my mind have answers that can only be unlocked with the help of a psychedelic? Seems very unlikely to me. Maybe we are being tricked into believing these things by a mere combiantion of various elements. Maybe we are all part of the same stuff, so when we search within ourselves we are in essense searching within everyone and everything. Sort of like Anaximanders view of the Unbounded which he said is what everything is made from. Could the chemical revert us back to our most basic state to find out important truths? Or are we just hallucinating. Im sorry if that sounded fragmented, but pot'll do that.


Edited by TheCow (11/05/03 04:02 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2073509 - 11/05/03 04:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How can we trust our eyes? Sure, we have seen through them for quite awhile. But they could be lying to us, and we would never even know...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2073539 - 11/05/03 04:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe we can't trust them. But there is no reasonable reason not to. However why would we trust a hallucinogenic mushroom?


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Offlined33p
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2073543 - 11/05/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I dont think there is "anything" out there. Just a complex system of electrical nerve endings firing which produce in essence a program whcih evolves its reasoning over time to form an facade of self known as the ego.

Chemcials just confuse and alter this facade for short periods of time.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2073601 - 11/05/03 04:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> Could the chemical revert us back to our most basic state to find out important truths?

Yesss.. this is my experience. I lose all reference and all "filters" that my thoughts would normally pass through. When I'm "here", looking at the world or specific issues, my thoughts tread old ground, taking the exact same paths in my mind. These "filters" are somehow the result of my upbringing, what I have experienced, etc. Losing them is an incredibly powerful experience which completely overwhelms me. Things I take for granted and view as simple are really mindblowingly beautiful and extremely convoluted. When I come "back", these are some of the things that I take with me.

I'm also aware that I lose any kind of critical sense. Insanity is a good word for it. Mind boggling theories that the world is comprised of blue, red and green spheres which only purpose is to communicate to the next sphere that they "get it" is the kind of thoughts that I quickly dismiss when I come back.

One thing that hit me the last time, was how humans have created the internet, and how it is an incredible mean in the only thing that seemed to matter deep down, communicating and understanding. I was extremely fixated with the thought that the wires coming out of my wall could send signals to almost anywhere in the world, and likewise receieve an answer. Interconnectedness of minds, coupled with understanding and learning.. mind boggling.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: muhurgle]
    #2073623 - 11/05/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well what I am trying to ask is, is it feasible that psychedelics can take us outside of our minds, take us deeper into the very essense of the universe. It seems to me that such theories as you described above would support that no it does not. It makes sense at the time, and at the time you think it is profound. I remember Chinacat saying that on his thumbprint he came to the conclusion that we all return to a big pool of matter when we die. Now to him I am sure this makes absolute sense. But he thought this up while a foreign chemical was inside of his mind. How can he trust it?


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Offlined33p
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2073641 - 11/05/03 04:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

There is no way to trust anything. For all i know you are all a figment of my imagination or this is all just my dream. Sometimes you just gotta say "what the hell" and go along with it.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: d33p]
    #2073660 - 11/05/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I can say fuck it and go along with things that I have to. Such as vision, or the fact that this whole life could be a dream. But I can still question things that arent needed to live. Psychedelics are not needed to live. I am just trying to get to the essence of what we are trying to learn by taking them.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: d33p]
    #2073688 - 11/05/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't really think there is "anything" out there either, and I'm also pretty convinced that our consciousness is nothing but an illusion..

Problem is, we can't really break out of the box that is our minds. Concepts like "understanding" and "knowledge" wouldn't have any meaning either, still we pursue science trying to discover new things. It's very paradoxical, our understanding of nature leads us to conclude that there might not be a world of ideas or anything but an illusion of consciousness.

If you step down a level, and just accept the world as it is presented to you, this confusion of the chemistry of the brain might introduce thoughts that reveal new "truths" about the world. They might be truths about social interactions or about physical things.. and even if it's induced by a confusion, there might be something to it. I don't believe that there is "anything" other than what we normally can observe though..

ok, sorry for rambling


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblequestioning
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Registered: 10/30/03
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: d33p]
    #2073695 - 11/05/03 04:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i thought about this before, perhaps that even the answers i seem to find are completely false. But no one will ever know. When i trip, it seems as if the social brain wash fades. I try not to let any judgemental or closeminded thoughts in, and just remain completely open. When i'm sober, i make snap judgements, i think things to be impossible because i'm told they are. I trust the thoughts that are pure and within more so than the thoughts i'm told to have, or lead to believe. Either way, we won't ever KNOW, it doesn't really matter if i believe truth or false because what is, is, and will be. whether i believe or think it or not.


--------------------
important questions sometimes involve a quest to answer.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2073762 - 11/05/03 05:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It's a good question. The feeling of profoundness is often so great that you really want to trust it. It might be that we actually can reach another level, or transcend into true consciousness or something, but the longer it goes since I've last tripped, the more I believe it's just insanity.

Several times I've thought "I cannot possibly understand this when I come back", and I'm quite content with that.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2073810 - 11/05/03 05:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the answer doesn't lie in what i am told. it waits for me in the way i react to what i am told. drugs can't tell me things i wouldn't be able to know otherwise. but they let me see things differently, and i can observe how these things make me feel, and what they make me think. who i am is what im looking for.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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Offlined33p
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: entiformatie]
    #2074404 - 11/05/03 08:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Great response. It really is amazing how point of view on a situation can change what you get out of it. I really do bealive that what is inside of our head is there and nothing without external stimulation can be brought to it. Its intresting to think at least from my eyes what i and others can get out of a drug experence. To comprehend the whole of everything and the infinite specifics of nothing at all really requires one to just take a step back.

Wonderfull substances, wonderfull indeed.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: d33p]
    #2074649 - 11/05/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If you attain a certain point of enlightenment you realise there is no one way or truth. Everything comes from within you. Life, the way you see it now or psychedelics you are creating. If you meditate for years withouth using psychedelics you can also reach these states and hallucinate. Psychedelics shatter your current reality and free you from your current thought patterns and rituals leaving you to create new ones. That is up to you though, the psychedelics aren't responsable for the reality you chooise to live in.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #2074701 - 11/05/03 09:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What if psychedelics are just another cage for our minds. We are yearning to be free from the shackles that bind us. Maybe drugs just try to alienate us from normal society, but then where does that lead us? Enlightenment? Why would that be enlightenment. It is true that hallucinogens try to create a more peaceful world, but if everyone becomes peaceful is that really living?. Let us examine the book 1984, everyone is at peace, yet everyone is at war. Maybe this is just another way to try and control our minds. If we are all at peace we will work more efficiently and listen to the government much more. Then why illegalize drugs? So that we feel like we are doing this in contrast to the warlike government. Whos to say that they dont approve of its use, to try and create complacent citizens. Yes during the 60's they were not complacent at all. But this was the counter-culture. If everyone was like that, (except for the powers that be), then everyone would be complacent. Nothing to fight against, just do your job, live as one. I dont really believe in this, I think psychedelics can free us from many of the problems plaguing the human race, I am just trying to argue the other way. Proving to be very difficult for me.


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OfflinePsilygirl
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2074729 - 11/05/03 09:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
Could the chemical revert us back to our most basic state to find out important truths?





i always think about this when i'm tripping... i always feel that i'm brought back to my most basic form, outside of everything that has grown within me due to my environment. i feel as if i'm seeing everything for the first time, i feel essentially like a child. i like to run around, and play and my attention span is short like a childs. i question everything, i inspect everything around me. suddenly the plant vase on the kitchen table is so much more than its ever been, i feel as if i've never seen it before.

that feeling is one of many going on when tripping, but its the one that interests me the most. how can a chemical make me feel that way? i still cant figure it all out yet...


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2075749 - 11/06/03 02:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Have you ever had any psychic experiences on a drug?
It's actually not difficult to have happen.
We aren't as stuck in our own heads as you think :smile:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Trapped in our minds [Re: TheCow]
    #2076165 - 11/06/03 06:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
I can say fuck it and go along with things that I have to.  Such as vision, or the fact that this whole life could be a dream.  But I can still question things that arent needed to live.  Psychedelics are not needed to live.  I am just trying to get to the essence of what we are trying to learn by taking them. 




Well, what is needed to live? Air, water, protection from the elements, and nutrients. Cavemen were alive. They lived. We live now. We have all sorts of stuff that isn't required to live. Language, technnology, etc. Did you know we don't even need our senses to live? Of course, pursuing what we need to live is going to be extremely difficult if we have no senses. But it doesn't mean it isn't possible. Hell, technically, vegetables in hospitals are alive. No conscious thought. Still alive.

I find psychadelics very useful. We as humans seperate ourselves from life. We block out a lot of signals. A long time ago we decided to create mental barriers that enable us to focus on a very limited amount of information at once. We have developed an individual perspective, an ego, in the race to survive.

Psychadelics temporarily tear down these barriers. The insight one can receive from these temporarily experiences is well worth it. Myself, I haven't tripped many times, but the knowledge I have found within myself I have used in my own life. I have removed some of these barriers once I realized how beneficial it is to have the freedom to remove them. I am still alive.

Mycelium is quite the stuff, you know. Isn't there suspossed to be more connections in mycelium than our brains? Mycelium's networking suspossedly resembles the networking of our brains. Now, how do we not know that mycelium is conscious? That it collects information? I mean, the mushrooms could definitely be produced in order to connect with other beings, all throughout the universe, as mushrooms can indeed exist on a lot of different planets. The fact that spores are capable of escaping Earth and floating into space sort of shows this.

Mycelium could very well be a massive, conscious storage of ideas. When we were evolving, something sparked us into developing consciousness and thought. Could it be? Perhaps. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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