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 ionic
newbie
Registered: 06/03/01
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 Why Hallucinogens? 
#591346 - 03/27/02 08:44 PM (21 years, 7 days ago) |
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I'd be curious: why does anyone here do hallucinogens? I often find myself in a little mind/body battle where I wonder, "My body can produce most of these chemicals. I can theoretically reach these states if I apply the effort, but by relying on hallucinogens to get me there I am basically creating a vice, another crutch."
I have gone through phases where I just don't give a fuck, and fill myself with as much shit as I can get. I have gone through phases where I won't touch anything, trying to look inward rather than outward.
In the first state I usually disregard most of this, probably because I'm depressed over the fact that I have this crutch. I always feel like I created whatever crutch and I can't support myself, it makes me feel like shit. In the second state I do reap benefits, and the effort applied is at first large. Some people scoff at meditation, but it really does some amazing things.
There must be reasons that I allow myself to dip into this other, darker state, even if it has been almost a year. I don't see myself going completely back because I am now conscious of what those previous acts did to me, but I'm not sure.
Now I seem to be dipping back somewhat and it may just be a justification when I think, "Mind and matter are inseparable, so why fret if the chemicals come from inside or outside." Monetary reasons maybe, but also I feel like our society needs the hallucinogens. In order to reach the states that a half-eighth of mushrooms will keep you for a whole day you'd have to work weeks, not just on weekends.
Mushrooms, and other hallucinogens, are the perfect convenience; when I want to be there and for how long are just a matter of dose. There is no daily effort, no integration involved.
I now see hallucinogens as the doorway to show the world of altered states, and once passed should not be seen again. As I said, I've stayed away from drugs for about 8 or 9 months. The last time was about a one month period (just look into the records of when I posted) when I did mushrooms. I didn't respond well at all, I think I was hoping it would do something for me and it didn't. Now again, I am to partake in the hallucinogenic experience with less expectation but still a minor fear and self-deprecation.
I wonder if anyone has ever found the necessity to analyze the situation this thoroughly. I feel as if I just wrote a confession. Most people who have steered clear of hallucinogens won't be reading or posting here, but members of the other clan, thoughts?
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I come from brilliance and I return to brilliance. What is this?
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 Floydian
veteran
Registered: 05/13/00
Posts: 1,022
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#591387 - 03/27/02 09:34 PM (21 years, 7 days ago) |
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Wow, I've been having this internal debate for a while too. I wonder if I'm setting myself up for disaster by relying on ingesting chemicals to reach those altered states i love so much.
I have tryed some meditation but I haven't had too much sucess without the aid of Hallucinogens.
For me music is the only thing that comes close to having the conciousness altering powers that hallucinogens have.
But I too have gone through different phases. One in which I don't give a fuck and gobble whatever I can get my hands on. Which usually doesn't last long. Then there is the mode in which I indulge but restrain my usage to specific occassions.
Then I also get into total abstinence. This doesn't seem to last long either.
So far I've yet to find something that works well all the time. All of these have their ups and downs. Its like exchanging one set of problems for another.
Lately I've been fighting the urge to go no holds barred again. I recently tried San Pedro for the first time and it was really good. I got a taste of that psychedelic euphoria that I hadn't tasted in a while.
A few days after I found myself wanting to make the plunge again and go as deep as I can. I have the means too but I've been able to restrain myself as of late. I've made that mistake before and making it again would seem foolish.
The problem is that my current living situation has me in a perpetual limbo. I basically have no set schedule and the home I'm staying in is not my own. I'm also in an unknown town and don't have any friends in this area. So as you can see I got a lot of spare time and lonelyness to deal with everyday. I also lake transportation so getting anything done is very difficult.
My marijuana consumption has sky rocketed in the past few weeks. The bordom has been getting stronger and stronger. I woke up today and wanted to start drinking right off because i knew it was gonna be another boring ass day of doing nothing.
Anyway back on topic.... I usually come to the conclusion after i debate this in my head that my state of mind is the most important thing, and if chemicals are helping me maintain a positive mind set than its worth whatever consequences that might result.
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Don't squeeze the pancake batter
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#591507 - 03/27/02 11:30 PM (21 years, 7 days ago) |
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Remember it's only western society that wants you to feel bad about using entheogens. If you were living in south america or mexico you would've been taking them every week since birth because they are considered so healthy for you. Entheogens are definately at odds with the "Work all your life for a pittance making someone else rich and then drop dead" approach to life. Which is why authorities in the west don't want you doing them.
And to reach profound altered states through meditation isn't really possible. Most of the indian swamis use techniques such as sitting starving in a pitch black cave with a single source of light for 2 or 3 years to induce their brains to hallucinate. Read swami's accounts of this and you'll find it's basically the same thing as tripping. You arn't going to reach altered states comparable to mushrooms by sitting down and breathing deeply for 20 minutes.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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LOBO
Vagabond
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#591628 - 03/28/02 05:57 AM (21 years, 7 days ago) |
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I bet your guilt has something to do with your religious upbringing, (I had it to), the fact is nobody really knows shit about anything, and if the clime to know I will be very wary, and if they do, it would not help you, you have to find it on your own, for me shrooms have been and are a valuabel tool for self exploration, beter than any thing I have tried so far, (I did it all, meditation, schools of "knolege", etc) but my approach to phsycoldelics is with moderation and respect, I may only trip twice a year, in nature alone or with just one friend.
Ah and one more thing from my own experience the day that I got ride of my imposed guilt, was the day the spirit of the shroom reveled it's self to me.
Good luck fellow seeker of truth.
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Tannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#591856 - 03/28/02 12:09 PM (21 years, 6 days ago) |
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You must have had some very positive experiences with shrooms....unlike myself, three back to back REALLY BAD trips a couple of weeks apart.....I never want to reach what I found again.....I want to trip to the point of some nice visuals and sensations but not into the bizzare again.....
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#592112 - 03/28/02 05:28 PM (21 years, 6 days ago) |
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It seems like you want meaning. You want to know who, what, and why you are. Drugs can't tell you, they can help, but they can't tell you. You have to find the meaning. I found that studying Philosophy (starting with the pre-socratics and going all the way to now) is VERY helpful. Even if you don't get that much into it, it is sometimes comforting to recognize a thought that you've had in someone else's writings from hundreds of years ago. The hard part is taking a stand... there is a tendency to do this at first, but if you get into it, you realize that there is no answer... Then you'll know the mystery of the philosopher's stone. The journey.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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marijuanaman04
journeyman
Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 60
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#592133 - 03/28/02 06:02 PM (21 years, 6 days ago) |
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Yo fuck you FED!!!
Go to marijuana.com ... The department of justice released an offical statement, there going to increase activity in the Drug sites!
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Yo fuck you FED!!!
I don't think so...
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too_many_weirdos
it's a jungle inhere
Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 517
Loc: Ithaca, NY
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what?
what prompted that comment?
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guardian
apprentice
Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 33
Loc: Sydney- Australia
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#592181 - 03/28/02 06:49 PM (21 years, 6 days ago) |
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Indeed it would be nice to be able to produce such states of conciousness purely from the power of mind, but the following paragraphs best describes the reason why many of us stand by our entheogenic friends.
FOURTH WAY--
The fourth way is sometimes called the way of the sly man. The "SLY MAN" knows some secret which the Fakir, the monk, and the Yogi do not know. How the "SLY MAN" learned this secret, it is not known: perhaps he found it in some old books, perhaps he inherited it, perhaps he bought it, perhaps he stole it from someone: it makes no difference. The "SLY MAN" knows the secret and, with its help, outstrips the Fakir, the monk, and the Yogi.
Of the four, the Fakir acts in the crudest manner: he knows very little and understands very little. Let us suppose that by a whole month of physical exercise and intense torture he develops in himself a certain energy, a certain substance which produces certain changes in him. He does it absolutely blindly, with eyes shut, knowing neither aim, methods, nor results, simply in imitation of others.
The monk knows what he wants a little better: he is guided by religious feeling, by religious tradition, by a desire for achievement, for salvation. He trusts his teacher who tells him what to do , and he believes that his efforts and sacrifices are "pleasing to God": Let us suppose that a week of fasting, continual prayer, privations, and so on, enables him to attain what the Fakir develops in himself by a month of self torture.
The Yogi knows considerably more: he knows what he wants, he knows why he wants it, he knows how it can be acquired. He knows, for instance, that it is necessary for his purpose to produce a certain substance in himself. He knows that this substance can be produced in one day by a certain kind of mental exercise or concentration of consciousness; so he keeps his attention on these exercises for a whole day without allowing himself a single outside thought, and he obtains what he needs. In this way a Yogi spends on the same thing only one day compared with the month spent by the Fakir and a week spent by the monk.
But on the fourth way, knowledge is still more exact and perfect. A man who follows the fourth way knows quite definitely what substances he needs for his aims and he knows that these substances can be produced within the body by a month of physical suffering, by a week of emotional strain or by a day of mental exercises --and also that they can be introduced into the organism from without, if it is known how to do it; and so, instead of spending a whole day in exercises like the Yogi, a week in prayer like the monk, or a month of self torture like the Fakir, he simply prepares and swallows a little pill which contains all the substances he wants. And in this way, without loss of time, he obtains the required result.
--George Gurdjieff as quoted by Peter Ouspensky in In Search of the Miraculous
food for thought. cheers.
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Pull the tape worm out of your ass!
-System of a Down
http://deoxy.org/mckenna.htm
http://www.shaman-australis.com/
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Freewired
journeyman
Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 55
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: guardian]
#592426 - 03/29/02 12:04 AM (21 years, 6 days ago) |
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The way I see it is this: The best way from here to there is under your own power. From time to time, however, you may wish you had a vehicle.
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EMM
journeyman
Registered: 11/04/01
Posts: 68
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#592878 - 03/29/02 01:53 PM (21 years, 5 days ago) |
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Hello all,
I've asked myself this a lot too, of course its after I've awakend from that place lost in the head by mind food. I almost feel like i'm cheating myself when taking shrooms, or pot. Its all about freedom right and to depend on the drugs for freedom doesn't seem right. These altered states of consciousness that these drugs bring on are so far out but after the next few days I feel I have forgotten it all. I think that freedom has to come from within, and that drugs are a cry. Although Im saying this now I still debate it because when Im on these mind altering excursions I don't think in the same context at all that I do now. All I can say these mind foods have given me a step to look into myself what I truly want. Compassion, compassion and love for all of us, and given me a strong task to help bring freedom back into the hearts of the world. Love, these drugs give me a love for everyone something that is easily lost in our world.
Anyone with me?
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: EMM]
#593000 - 03/29/02 04:22 PM (21 years, 5 days ago) |
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Im with you EMM !
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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-
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marijuanaman04
journeyman
Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 60
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#593740 - 03/30/02 02:05 PM (21 years, 4 days ago) |
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sorry about that out burst!
i didn't read the whole post before posting
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magnu
newbie
Registered: 03/11/02
Posts: 37
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#594916 - 03/31/02 08:34 PM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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i studied yoga years ago and talked with my teacher on this. her opinion was that to get to your goal, YOU must make the effort, YOU must walk the path as it were. but knowing what it is you're making the effort for can help you keep doing the work. so to do psychedelics or whatever once in a while, 'climb the mountain', lets you see your goal so you can come down and do the hard work of getting there. but if you stay on the mountain always looking, you'll never really arrive.
reminds me i should get some new shoes.
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if you hurt yourself having fun,
you stop having fun.
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magnu
newbie
Registered: 03/11/02
Posts: 37
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: Xlea321]
#594931 - 03/31/02 08:44 PM (21 years, 3 days ago) |
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>> Entheogens are definately at odds with the "Work all your life for a pittance making someone else rich and then drop dead" approach to life. Which is why authorities in the west don't want you doing them.<<
this is too true, alex. hard to stay on that path when you've seen how faked up it is. but i must disagree about other methods. sure, some sound stupid and extreme even if they do work. but imagine a good weed and coke high (if you like that stuff). there are breathing exercises that will put you there in way less than 20 minutes. take a yoga class and learn the 'breath of fire'. it will convince you. the higher levels may require somewhat more work.
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if you hurt yourself having fun,
you stop having fun.
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TheLord
Dreaded Stranger
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 3
Loc: Elysium
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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 Re: Why Hallucinogens? [Re: ionic]
#595600 - 04/01/02 02:05 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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The object is not to get high, but to be high. Psychedelics can only get you high. Their only valuable in showing you the state. If you want to be high like Buddha or Blake, well that takes a lot more.
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