Anonymous #2 said:

No one will agree to anything,

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Anonymous #2 said:

this thread is useless,

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Anonymous #2 said:

these arguments are futile.

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These arguments aren't futile, it's a well established fact that debate is done for the nonparticipating audience. If having discourse about the beginning of time and the universe is futile than what the hell isn't?

Your whole post was a facepalm and your arguments are invalid.

Quote:

That's not true, I agreed with several things.

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Quote:

All threads are useless, so that statement is redundant and you just made yourself look stupid.

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Quote:

These arguments aren't futile, it's a well established fact that debate is done for the nonparticipating audience. If having discourse about the beginning of time and the universe is futile than what the hell isn't?

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Quote:

Your whole post was a facepalm and your arguments are invalid.

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Anonymous #19 said:

This is why I consider Christ's teachings so important: he preaches the abolition of religious establishmentarianism and the unlimited virtue of self-sacrifice in the pursuit of higher realization. Many Christians are slaves to their culture's rituals, and this is what Christ is trying to lead us away from. The agnostics have been healed, but many of the irredeemable have taken up the reins of the church. The followers of new-age fads still need help, and they may or may not find it. We are all seeking liberation and a life in the presence of God. Some of us are doing better than others.

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Anonymous #2 said:

Quote:

That's not true, I agreed with several things.

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Yes it is, because even if you agree, you aren't going to come to any final conclusion.

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Anonymous #2 said:

ok, point taken on that last part.


Re-done

Really?, and what makes your arguments anymore valid than my arguments?

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Anonymous #13 said:

Anonymous #2 said:

ok, point taken on that last part.


Re-done

Really?, and what makes your arguments anymore valid than my arguments?

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Science, facts, and Burt Reynolds.

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My point still stands.

Anonymous #2 said:

My point still stands.

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Anonymous #7 said:

Anonymous #19 said:

This is why I consider Christ's teachings so important: he preaches the abolition of religious establishmentarianism and the unlimited virtue of self-sacrifice in the pursuit of higher realization. Many Christians are slaves to their culture's rituals, and this is what Christ is trying to lead us away from. The agnostics have been healed, but many of the irredeemable have taken up the reins of the church. The followers of new-age fads still need help, and they may or may not find it. We are all seeking liberation and a life in the presence of God. Some of us are doing better than others.

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there are other Abrahamic religions that promote the dispersion and empowerment of religion, with a demonstrated unity through various acts. i think you can guess what I'm getting at. you have good points. i've always believed people are their own worst enemy when it comes to matters of faith. we dont have to live ascetic lifestyles in order to worship- the primary mechanism of worship, a priori to everything else, is belief and acknowledgement. i have yet to meet a humble atheist, though anecdotal, i think it signifies a much larger theme.

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This is part of what I was getting at earlier-- the Western Crusaders bringing "democracy" to the East have no idea that the Islamic democracy wears the mask of theocracy. You'd think the Iranian Revolution, and the ensuing democratic theocracy, would have taught us a lesson but it didn't. There's no reasoning with the Islamists because our democracy makes no place for God. Our translators are rendered useless by the cultural taboo upon public religious expression. For the same taboo our theologians have grown complacent and the public face of our religion (and with it, our democratic government itself) has been co-opted by the worst among us, the shirks. I have found that it is not possible to communicate in universalistic terms. We have become islands of mutually unintelligible value systems scattered across a sea of moral relativism. We stand atop the Tower of Babel and the confusion is imminent.

I consider myself "Christian", even though my parents raised me agnostic, even though I don't go to any church, because I recognize, appreciate, and try to understand the impact of Christian teachings upon my morals. The "Christians" I generally hear about on the news are sadistic Christ-killers. Many more that I don't hear about are doing good.

And I agree with you about the atheists. Reductionistic scientism and materialism, yay!

Anonymous #19 said:

Anonymous #7 said:

Anonymous #19 said:

This is why I consider Christ's teachings so important: he preaches the abolition of religious establishmentarianism and the unlimited virtue of self-sacrifice in the pursuit of higher realization. Many Christians are slaves to their culture's rituals, and this is what Christ is trying to lead us away from. The agnostics have been healed, but many of the irredeemable have taken up the reins of the church. The followers of new-age fads still need help, and they may or may not find it. We are all seeking liberation and a life in the presence of God. Some of us are doing better than others.

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there are other Abrahamic religions that promote the dispersion and empowerment of religion, with a demonstrated unity through various acts. i think you can guess what I'm getting at. you have good points. i've always believed people are their own worst enemy when it comes to matters of faith. we dont have to live ascetic lifestyles in order to worship- the primary mechanism of worship, a priori to everything else, is belief and acknowledgement. i have yet to meet a humble atheist, though anecdotal, i think it signifies a much larger theme.

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This is part of what I was getting at earlier-- the Western Crusaders bringing "democracy" to the East have no idea that the Islamic democracy wears the mask of theocracy. You'd think the Iranian Revolution, and the ensuing democratic theocracy, would have taught us a lesson but it didn't. There's no reasoning with the Islamists because our democracy makes no place for God. Our translators are rendered useless by the cultural taboo upon public religious expression. For the same taboo our theologians have grown complacent and the public face of our religion (and with it, our democratic government itself) has been co-opted by the worst among us, the shirks. I have found that it is not possible to communicate in universalistic terms. We have become islands of mutually unintelligible value systems scattered across a sea of moral relativism. We stand atop the Tower of Babel and the confusion is imminent.

I consider myself "Christian", even though my parents raised me agnostic, even though I don't go to any church, because I recognize, appreciate, and try to understand the impact of Christian teachings upon my morals. The "Christians" I generally hear about on the news are sadistic Christ-killers. Many more that I don't hear about are doing good.

And I agree with you about the atheists. Reductionistic scientism and materialism, yay!

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I would give you +5 if I knew who you were lol

I was a Christian a while back, I was in a similar position as you describe. Then I read Mohammad Asad's (formally known as Leopold Weiss, a Jewish convert) translation of the Qur'an. the rest is history

Anonymous #2 said:

joemolloy's comment, who ever he is, is just another smart comment to convince dumber people. good job in falling for the same trap.

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Anonymous #8 said:

Religion is just another way that smart people came up with to control dumb people.

End of conversation, everything else is bullshit.

joemolloy, fucking genius.

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Anonymous #7 said:

I would give you +5 if I knew who you were lol

I was a Christian a while back, I was in a similar position as you describe. Then I read Mohammad Asad's (formally known as Leopold Weiss, a Jewish convert) translation of the Qur'an. the rest is history

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Anonymous #19 said:

Anonymous #8 said:

Religion is just another way that smart people came up with to control dumb people.

End of conversation, everything else is bullshit.

joemolloy, fucking genius.

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No shit. Get with the fucking program. Do you wanna be a helpless simp or do you wanna keep the simps at bay? Better embrace religion.

Anonymous #7 said:

I would give you +5 if I knew who you were lol

I was a Christian a while back, I was in a similar position as you describe. Then I read Mohammad Asad's (formally known as Leopold Weiss, a Jewish convert) translation of the Qur'an. the rest is history

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I may want to check this out, but I gotta admit, the condition of the middle east in general does not inspire me with confidence in Islam's capacity for conflict resolution. I of course realize I'm seeing the circumstances through America-tinged glasses, but I feel like I have a choice here:

1) America (as the promised land of the Christian puritans) had regional disputes at its outset. These were solved in two extremely bloody but self-limiting wars. All three of the factions now live at peace and America remains Christian (whatever that means).

2) Islam (the nation constituted by the religious identity) had regional disputes at its outset. These were quickly (and I understand often bloodlessly) resolved. Over a millenium later its geography was carved into vassal puppet-dictatorships by imperialists and a sliver of it was permanently settled by the Jewish diaspora. This resulted in an ongoing self-exacerbating sectarian bloodbath among religious extremists who occasionally get the dosh together to fly airliners into American skyscrapers.

Again, I realize that my perspective is probably skewed, and I acknowledge that Turkey and Indonesia are doing pretty well for themselves while Iran poses a serious intellectual and political challenge to western/Christian values. But in Arabia, religious police might kick my ass for not having a beard or failing to wear a burqa. How is that better than our lackadaisical practice of Christian tolerance and modesty?

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