Quote:

soap is not specifically "anti-microbial", "anti-fungal", or event "anti-bacterial". Soap is simply an emulsifier which allows lipids (like food oils, machine grease, etc) to disolve in water so that it can be washed away. In fact, it's been shown that low concentrations of soap can increase the growth of bacteria in a body of water by reducing the surface tension

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Given the highlighted text I wouldn't leave it in my soak water at all.
This bar of soap got mold from sitting too long for example.

ProfessorPinHead said:

A good friend of mine doesn't soak or simmer. He loads the rye and adds water at a 2:1 ratio and the grain comes out fine.

It isn't for me but he does it successfully no problem every time..... 

Also adding detergent won't kill bacteria.....

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Hate said:

ProfessorPinHead said:

A good friend of mine doesn't soak or simmer. He loads the rye and adds water at a 2:1 ratio and the grain comes out fine.

It isn't for me but he does it successfully no problem every time..... 

Also adding detergent won't kill bacteria.....

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İ dont want post more of this ... And i am not trying to be a dick ... But dude siriusly from the begining ... WTF.

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now we are to the point where we dont respond to what people just posted, but to what they previously posted?

Hate said:

FooMan said:

Hate said:

Dude we soak to germinate the endospores... And simmer to hydrate the grain.. And i dint think endo spores can produce more endospores untill they get in some productive stage... Like shroom circle..

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Koolaid had it right the first time. You soak to hydrate. You don't want endospores or even regular mold spores to germinate because that's when they start producing bacteria that just adds more contaminants to the mix. That's what that weird, fruity, fermented smell is when you leave grains sitting in stagnant water for several hours- bacteria. It's best IMO to hydrate the grains quickly by simmering or steeping them in water rather than letting them soak in a bacteria bath for hours.

The reason we use a PC in the first place is to kill endospores because normal boiling temps aren't hot enough to do the job. I've never understood the logic of allowing those spores to germinate, produce more bacteria, which could in turn produce even more endospores. I've used only WBS now for about 10 years and I never soak it. I steep it in extremely hot water for > 1hr, rinse it, drain it, jar or bag it up and PC it for 90min to 3+ hours depending on the volume of substrate. The initial heat of the hot water steep kills off a lot of mold spores right off the bat and the PC takes care of the rest.

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Ok thanks for deep info but i dont think you are right about this....
Let me explain to you the idea of soaking....
We soak because in grain absulately %100 exist endospores.. What is a endospore ? -its a bacteria in ironman suit ...bacteria become suited because when enviromental conditions are not good to keep living around they turn their selves to little muthafukin endospores...

Endospores are strong, stabilized, -heat, radiation and pressure survivors...

So the idea - we germinate the endospores and they get in vegetative stage , divide to more bacteria ...which you can easly kill with normal sterilizing procedure( not like endospores) ... So it really doesnt matter if they are producing ( not produce actually it called division) more bacterias But..
---the bacterias will be in vegetative stage Not in endospore form...!!!!!


you germinated the endospores and when you pc them all they are gona die easyly ,thats the whole soaking point ... Forgive my inglish if you see mistake.

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scatmanrav said:

Hate said:

FooMan said:

Hate said:

Dude we soak to germinate the endospores... And simmer to hydrate the grain.. And i dint think endo spores can produce more endospores untill they get in some productive stage... Like shroom circle..

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Koolaid had it right the first time. You soak to hydrate. You don't want endospores or even regular mold spores to germinate because that's when they start producing bacteria that just adds more contaminants to the mix. That's what that weird, fruity, fermented smell is when you leave grains sitting in stagnant water for several hours- bacteria. It's best IMO to hydrate the grains quickly by simmering or steeping them in water rather than letting them soak in a bacteria bath for hours.

The reason we use a PC in the first place is to kill endospores because normal boiling temps aren't hot enough to do the job. I've never understood the logic of allowing those spores to germinate, produce more bacteria, which could in turn produce even more endospores. I've used only WBS now for about 10 years and I never soak it. I steep it in extremely hot water for > 1hr, rinse it, drain it, jar or bag it up and PC it for 90min to 3+ hours depending on the volume of substrate. The initial heat of the hot water steep kills off a lot of mold spores right off the bat and the PC takes care of the rest.

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Ok thanks for deep info but i dont think you are right about this....
Let me explain to you the idea of soaking....
We soak because in grain absulately %100 exist endospores.. What is a endospore ? -its a bacteria in ironman suit ...bacteria become suited because when enviromental conditions are not good to keep living around they turn their selves to little muthafukin endospores...

Endospores are strong, stabilized, -heat, radiation and pressure survivors...

So the idea - we germinate the endospores and they get in vegetative stage , divide to more bacteria ...which you can easly kill with normal sterilizing procedure( not like endospores) ... So it really doesnt matter if they are producing ( not produce actually it called division) more bacterias But..
---the bacterias will be in vegetative stage Not in endospore form...!!!!!


you germinated the endospores and when you pc them all they are gona die easyly ,thats the whole soaking point ... Forgive my inglish if you see mistake.

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That was the old way of thinking.

A PC works by create higher temps at different pressures, as long as your PC is at 15 psi then the water inside is at 250 degrees not matter what the fire below it is.same with 12psi, water is at 235 degrees or whatever temp water is at that level. More heat doesn't make higher temps, more pressure does.

Boiling water is 212 degrees whether its turned down or on high.

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Great .. So i yesterday cooked the one wheat jar about 2 hours in low fire ...  Thanks Scatman and kool for reminding that again..if there wont be any wet spot .. That means i dont need to change the pc ...