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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: FooMan]
    #17023714 -

Absulately..:rasta:


--------------------
"Smoke for peace and health - expand your mind"

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: FooMan]
    #17024185 -

FooMan said:
Nature Boy said:
Bottom line - find what works for YOU and do it that way.

:2cents:

N.B.


I think we can all agree on that.


QFT.....

I wish like hell I could use a damn colander, lol.......

I prep 50 pound bags of rye at a time.

That requires a soak if all you are working with is a couple 75x autoclaves and a regular stovetop.

The bath tub comes in mighty handy!

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: FooMan]
    #17024446 -

FooMan said:
Nature Boy said:
Bottom line - find what works for YOU and do it that way.

:2cents:

N.B.


I think we can all agree on that.


:like:


--------------------
Looking for Wife, please pm me your picture and list of skillz.


I'm wrong all the time, my posts are subject to being wrong at any  point or time, get butt hurt at own risk.

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Hate]
    #17024869 -

Hate said:
But i thought if the fire is low than inside temp will be lower relatively .. You know compaire to high level fire...
I dont know but thanks for reminding that man, iam back on it... 



no.

the pressure creates the heat. not the flame.

thats the entire point of a pressure cooker


:punish2:
also, endospores are not the reason we soak.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: k00laid]
    #17024897 -

RogerRabbit said:
Not really outdated info, but the idea of long soaks has been shown counterproductive.  I and several other growers have observed bacterial endospores that have germinated, begin forming new endospores within a few hours.  Thus, if you soak 36 hours, or possibly even 24, you might end up with more endospores than you started with.  Since some always survive even pressure cooking, the fewer you start out with the better.

If you soak less than four hours, you'll have lots of burst kernels when you PC, and they cause other problems from the released starches.  Personally, I've adjusted my schedule to rinse the grains and begin soaking in hot tap water just before bed time, and the next morning, I start the boiling/PC process while drinking my morning coffee.  This is usually a 7 to 9 hour soak period and seems to work very well.

Bear in mind, in my own work I'm seriously anal about contamination and consider a 99% success rate to be a 1% failure rate which is not acceptable.  Thus I try to split hairs looking for that elusive 100%.  Shorter soak times have narrowed that gap somewhat.
RR


Quoted from an old thread:  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10881345#10881345


RogerRabbit said:
Soaking for at least four hours hydrates not just the grains so they soften, but it also hydrates the endospores, whether or not they have time to germinate.  If the bacterial endospores are in their hard shell covering, they can survive.  If it's softened, they get nuked.

One should avoid pouring boiling water over dry grains as this can lead to burst kernels.
RR



Soaking = germinate (We are not technically trying to germinate, just hydrate the endospores so the heat will destroy them)
Simmer = proper water content of grain
PC = sterilize!


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Citric]
    #17024976 -

I do it exactly like RR just explained with the only difference being I soak in the coldest tap water possible rather than hot. :thumbup:

Seems a few of us have very similar opinions.

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #17024994 -

I use cold water as well!  :wink:


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Citric]
    #17025018 -

I totally agree with RR on the length of the soak.  My contribution (if it is one) is AFTER soaking but before simmering, RINSE the grains!  Lets assume for a moment that you DO have some endospores in your soak water @ 1000 spores per cc.  If you thoroughly rinse them, this could drop to 5, 10, whatever.  Point is, a rinse at that juncture can only HELP.

My tap water is chlorinated, too.  I imagine that is true anywhere you live in the USA.  So...by the time you begin the simmer, you have dramatically knocked down the endospores, chlorinated and stunned the remainder, and then boiled off the chlorine gas with the simmer.

NOW you are really ready to PC with confidence and a high liklihood of sterility, which equates to success!!  Anyway, that's my theory and methodology.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Nature Boy]
    #17025324 -

Fuck this i want to change my name to HH ... So maybe you motherfuckers will listen me ...
İ have been kiling my self to explain , what RR says ... Do i need to be a well known cultivator to get at least listened .. .. When HH speaks what RR says, no one gives fuck because he is just a HH .. Well guess what you guys can suck RR's balls. :rasta: .. ( RR i respect you man )
( i say this to not get banned lol)
(but if you even ban me i would countinue to respect you:grin:)

:mad2:


--------------------
"Smoke for peace and health - expand your mind"

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Hate]
    #17025593 -

is english your first language?

i am reading what you are posting, but it isn't making much sense half the time.

just being real.



edit: and we've all read all this rr quotes a hundred times.

doesnt change my opinion, soak for hydration, simmer for steam evap and hydration.

pc to sterilize.



if endospores were actually a big deal, how do so many people have success with no soaks. (fooman)  (pp's friend who puts rye and water in jar and cooks)




more testing needs to be done

:sherlock:


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Citric]
    #17025697 -

Citric said:
RogerRabbit said:
Not really outdated info, but the idea of long soaks has been shown counterproductive.  I and several other growers have observed bacterial endospores that have germinated, begin forming new endospores within a few hours.  Thus, if you soak 36 hours, or possibly even 24, you might end up with more endospores than you started with.  Since some always survive even pressure cooking, the fewer you start out with the better.

If you soak less than four hours, you'll have lots of burst kernels when you PC, and they cause other problems from the released starches.  Personally, I've adjusted my schedule to rinse the grains and begin soaking in hot tap water just before bed time, and the next morning, I start the boiling/PC process while drinking my morning coffee.  This is usually a 7 to 9 hour soak period and seems to work very well.

Bear in mind, in my own work I'm seriously anal about contamination and consider a 99% success rate to be a 1% failure rate which is not acceptable.  Thus I try to split hairs looking for that elusive 100%.  Shorter soak times have narrowed that gap somewhat.
RR


Quoted from an old thread:  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10881345#10881345


RogerRabbit said:
Soaking for at least four hours hydrates not just the grains so they soften, but it also hydrates the endospores, whether or not they have time to germinate.  If the bacterial endospores are in their hard shell covering, they can survive.  If it's softened, they get nuked.

One should avoid pouring boiling water over dry grains as this can lead to burst kernels.
RR



Soaking = germinate (We are not technically trying to germinate, just hydrate the endospores so the heat will destroy them)
Simmer = proper water content of grain
PC = sterilize!


Correct me if I'm wrong , lol, but isn't proper water content hydration ? Which rr says in his last quote done during the soak ? Supporting my soak for hydration, it o.ky makes sense, its where they plump up.


--------------------
Looking for Wife, please pm me your picture and list of skillz.


I'm wrong all the time, my posts are subject to being wrong at any  point or time, get butt hurt at own risk.

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Montock]
    #17025716 -

I honestly don't know what he meant by that, that would be a question for him.  Doesn't change the fact the simmer adds proper water content.  The heat + water is what adds water content.

I assume by hydrate in regard to soak, is speaking of softening the endospore so it is killable during pc'ing.


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: k00laid]
    #17025742 -

k00laid said:
is english your first language?

i am reading what you are posting, but it isn't making much sense half the time.

just being real.



edit: and we've all read all this rr quotes a hundred times.

doesnt change my opinion, soak for hydration, simmer for steam evap and hydration.

pc to sterilize.



if endospores were actually a big deal, how do so many people have success with no soaks. (fooman)  (pp's friend who puts rye and water in jar and cooks)




more testing needs to be done

:sherlock:


There are tons of ways people prepare grains.  Sometimes it works for them and not others.  I've known plenty who load their grain in the jar, add the water, pc, and works fine.  However the next guy who does this it does not.  This IMO is risky as if there are a high count of endospores, you could run into serious issues.

The whole idea of a soak is to eliminate this randomness.  As I have stated over and over, I never cut any corner when it came to preparation, or sterilization.  Most likely why I never ran into contam issues either.

If it works for you, great.  Don't fix what isn't broken.  But the general consensus and suggestion is to soak, simmer, pc.

If you think the soaking adds hydration, please do soak your grains for 12 hours, load in to a PC(Don't add anymore water either), and see how the water content fairs.


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Nature Boy]
    #17025746 -

Nature Boy said:
I totally agree with RR on the length of the soak.  My contribution (if it is one) is AFTER soaking but before simmering, RINSE the grains!  Lets assume for a moment that you DO have some endospores in your soak water @ 1000 spores per cc.  If you thoroughly rinse them, this could drop to 5, 10, whatever.  Point is, a rinse at that juncture can only HELP.

My tap water is chlorinated, too.  I imagine that is true anywhere you live in the USA.  So...by the time you begin the simmer, you have dramatically knocked down the endospores, chlorinated and stunned the remainder, and then boiled off the chlorine gas with the simmer.

NOW you are really ready to PC with confidence and a high liklihood of sterility, which equates to success!!  Anyway, that's my theory and methodology.

N.B.


Im buying it


--------------------
Looking for Wife, please pm me your picture and list of skillz.


I'm wrong all the time, my posts are subject to being wrong at any  point or time, get butt hurt at own risk.

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Montock]
    #17025789 -

I don't understand the confusion in what he's saying. If your grains start with zero moisture content you have to add moisture threw the act of hydration, to achieve proper moisture content. Though who knows even if I'm right rr is human and has changed his opinions publicly over the years and years on the forums, and his opinion could be different.t today.

But I'm fully on board that if it works for you, stick with it ! There more than one way to skin any mycology cat.


--------------------
Looking for Wife, please pm me your picture and list of skillz.


I'm wrong all the time, my posts are subject to being wrong at any  point or time, get butt hurt at own risk.

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Montock]
    #17025923 -

Montock said:
There more than one way to skin any mycology cat.


:thumbup:


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Citric]
    #17026810 -

Citric said:
If you think the soaking adds hydration, please do soak your grains for 12 hours, load in to a PC(Don't add anymore water either), and see how the water content fairs.


i KNOW that soak adds hydration.


i've tried just simmering my grains and it doesn't work.


i've tried just adding water and grains to a jar and PCing it.

the reason neither of those work for me is because of the water content.



nothing to do with endospores.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Citric]
    #17027577 -

Citric said:
If it works for you, great.  Don't fix what isn't broken.  But the general consensus and suggestion is to soak, simmer, pc.



:like:

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #17027637 -

ProfessorPinHead said:
Citric said:
If it works for you, great.  Don't fix what isn't broken.  But the general consensus and suggestion is to soak, simmer, pc.



:like:


:didyouseethat:


--------------------
"Smoke for peace and health - expand your mind"

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Re: We can use detergents for straw... Can we use it also for grains after 24 hours soaking period ? [Re: Hate]
    #17027660 -

So anyway ... Detergents kill bacteria. But do they kill endospores.. ! ENDOSPORES... :grin:


--------------------
"Smoke for peace and health - expand your mind"

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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