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OfflineNoviseer
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Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience?
    #1664530 - 06/26/03 02:58 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I've tripped twice, a low level two and a high level 3. On both occasions, I've suffered from periods of horrible anxiety, among periods of euphoria. During my second trip off 3.2g, I remember thinking, "Fuck me, i'm going to do this again. I dont ever want to do this again, but I know i'm going too, i'll convince myself I liked this when I'm sober, and I'll continue to take psychedelics." Well now I'm sober and, in fact, I look back on the experience with ambivalence. It was amazing, beautiful, just terrifying during the come-up and during certain portions of the peak. My question: I'm planning on a 3rd trip to close the summer, in about two months. My setting will be great, the beach or the woods or somewhere with my best friends. Will my level of anxiety decrease, because of my prior experience and knowledge that nothing bad happened, etc. Is this a commmon phenomenon, more anxiety with less experience, diminishing with more trips under one's belt? I sure hope so, because I sure love tripping, but I HATE that anxiety.


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InvisiblePsilosKube
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1664556 - 06/26/03 03:13 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I personally belive the anxiety stems from how comfortable you are with yourself, AND with what you are putting into your body.

Find some valium and take that with your next dose, it will help.

A Xanax is almost guaranteed to remove your anxiety, but it will make your trip a little more lethargic.

IMHO

HTH


--------------------
PK

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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1664777 - 06/26/03 04:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Good point PsilosKube, I also believe the same thing. In a nutshell, the anxiety you experience is you not willing to accept your current state of mind and body. I want to say that you anxiety will decrese with more trip experiences but sometimes that's not the case. I think with more experience you'll be able to control your anxiety attacts better though.

I've tripped countless times and I still encounter a bad anxiety attacts from time to time. I find that I only get them when I make personal, mental or spiritual self discoveries and I refuse to accept them. Shrooms can bring out the inner most depth of self that you never knew exsisted and coping with the new discoveries can be very stressfull.

You also have to keep in mind that you're not in the right state of mind to always completely comprhend what you're going through. Sometimes I just try to absorb as much as I can and just analyse it after I come down.

Next time you trip just try and stay calm (I know it's easier said then done.) Breathe deep, keep something around you that will pull your attention off of your negative thought. Silly putty or play dough work well for me.


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: djd586]
    #1665111 - 06/26/03 06:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

While some anxiety is indeed reaction to your mind's being affected by the psylocibin...there is still the fact that psychedelics can bring about mental loops of any emotion.  Anxiety is one of them.  And I doubt there's a correlation between how long you've been tripping and being "immune" to the anxiety....I know more people who started off tripping and having wonderful/euphoric trips but several years down the road their trips became nothing but anxiety or panic attacks.  It's the nature of the drug and its something you have to be prepared to accept if it occurs the next time you dose.

Personally I agree by remaining mindful you CAN step out of any bad mental loop or anxiety attack...but if you're not able to do so quickly...and you just ate 9 grams...the shrooms will mostly be a bit "ahead" of you.  :smile:

Speaking Generally:
Never fails to amuse me how so many trip reports all follow the same pattern: not sure it's gonna happen - starts happening really fast/hard - losing my mind, think I'm gonna die - get sick (if it happens at all) - euphoria for rest of trip - worst experience of life, but glad it happened.

heheh, with so many reports following that same model..makes you wonder if it's simply the way in which the mind and body are going to react to this particular poison.  :smile:  If you know it's gonna hit you hard in some ways that might not be pleasant, just remind yourself that unless you just ate over 200 pounds of shrooms..no matter how spooky it gets...you're not dying, you're gonna stop breathing, you're just gonna have to accept that you chose to do this to yourself and ride it out as smoothly as you can.  It might sound cliche...but it IS all in your mind.  :smile:

I've also noticed a trend that there are a lot of trippers out there who enjoy tripping socially but hate to trip solo.  In my own experiences...it was always easier to "work through" a difficult experience if others were around me...being alone and hitting high doses for the first time can definitely make you freak if you're not ready for what you're getting yourself into.  :smile:  Just some thoughts on the topic...

Love & Light,

Boppity


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1665637 - 06/26/03 10:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Valium or Xanax will definitely help, but pot is easier to get for most people and will also soften the anxiety. That said, your state of mind will have more bearing on your trip than anything else. Relax and tell yourself that everything was alright the last several times and they will be alright this time too. Maybe write some comforting things on a pad and have it handy to read if you start freaking out.

Good luck!

-Diploid


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (06/27/03 03:20 AM)


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Diploid]
    #1665929 - 06/27/03 12:23 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

All very good suggestions, thanks.  I'd have a tough time getting valium or xanax for sure (probably would have to call my ex girlfriend  :nut: )  I wouldn't have thought of using pot, but if it somehow strengthens the experience while also softening the anxiety, i'm all for that.  When and how much should I smoke to reduce the anxiety?  I think i'm gonna take a smaller dose next time, we have a pretty good batch, i'm thinking 2.5 instead of 3.2, should be a lot easier to enjoy.  Thanks for the input


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namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
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OfflineRANKSRAGGY68
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1691390 - 07/06/03 11:46 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Valium, in my experience, makes a trip much more lethargic than Xanax. I have never tried it on shrooms though. The thing is that Xanax is much faster acting. You put it under your tongue or crush it up and chew it for a minute or two and it goes into you faster. You will need to have .25mg tablets of Xanax. Since it acts so quickly you can gauge how effective it is. Start with two tabs equalling .5mg under your tongue. You will feel the effect within ten or 15 minutes. Valium on the other hand takes a while to settle in and you might take too much to get the ball rolling because in the meantime you will find that you are still panicking. Again, this is more for LSD. I haven't seen anything yet that is proof that it will also stop panic on a shroom trip.

I also agree that experience with panic and anxiety is a two edged sword. You can end up panicing that you'll panic. However, you can recognize it coming on and give a name to it. You can, from there, regulate your breathing in deep slow breaths and slow everything down. Just having some Xanax or Valium around "just in case" can be comforting. I find that taking those pills almost always has an immediate placebo effect. That's the power of the mind. It gives, it takes, it is.

If anyone has some reliable sources on the effects of Valium or Xanax during an anxiety attack while on shrooms, please post all of them here. It would definitely bring me some peace of mind. I too tend to enter the panic loop quite easily when on a hallucinogenic.

You have to put it into a picture I suppose. You enter a hole that is your trip. If you panic you start to race in circles. The hole suddenly starts to shrink and you panic that you can't get out. Then you can easily cause your shrieking orbit to go out of control and leave the comforting sight of the "escape" hole. In this case it is best just to let go. Keep a laminated sign in your back pocket that has big red letters. This placard should read "IT IS JUST THE DRUGS! YOU WILL BE NORMAL IN FOUR HOURS!!"


--------------------
"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition."


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OfflineRANKSRAGGY68
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Diploid]
    #1691404 - 07/06/03 11:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Go to your family doctor and tell them you are having anxiety and panic attacks. Sweaty palms, racing heart, light headedness, almost fainting, tunnel vision, blacking out, feeling like you are having a heart attack. They will 9 times out of 10 prescribe Xanax. Valium can be habit forming and is harder to get. And, I have to admit that a valium high can be very pleasant. However, read up on interactions with other drugs before taking them, especially if you are on any prescription medicines.

Sorry to hog up so much space with these posts. It has only been something I have identified in the last couple of years. Until I was 32 I just "dealt" with it. It sucked, and I found a way to stop it. Do go to the doctor and tell them you suffer from anxiety attacks, but please don't stop there. There are non-pharm ways to counter anxiety attacks. Breathing techniques, meditation, etc. I do both and have eliminated what used to be about a three time a week thing for me. Shitty way to "live."

-RR68


--------------------
"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition."


Edited by RANKSRAGGY68 (07/06/03 11:54 PM)


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: RANKSRAGGY68]
    #1692518 - 07/07/03 10:23 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

>>but pot is easier to get for most people and will also soften the anxiety

Not necessarily.  I get anxiety from really strong indica strains of weed.  It's funny that I never bothered to stop and realize that I also tend to be more anxious over the last few years when I'm sober.  Maybe a Xanax script wouldn't be such a bad thing.  :smile:

Love & Light,

Boppity


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Offlinecrazycanadian
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Boppity604]
    #1692736 - 07/07/03 12:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

weed can increase anxiety


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1693275 - 07/07/03 03:48 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience?"

I'd say it depends on how often you're tripping..

like if one were tripping every day, I don't know if the anxiety would decrease from that kind of "trip experience."

However, if one trips every few months or something like that, then yes I believe anxiety levels certainly drop.. well actually I wouldn't say the anxiety goes away, I'd say its more like you get used to the anxiety and can have fun with it :wink:


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1693314 - 07/07/03 04:01 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Some interesting angles on the anxiety we experience on psychedelics:

Intellectual Slant - If you're a deep, contemplative person when you're sober...there's a good chance that if you have an anxiety loop during a trip, you're just reacting to how deep into that particular train of thought your mind is going...usually just in a way you're not accustomed to...so it spooks you.

It's interesting comparing a bad trip to trying to calm your mind in a stabilization meditation (while sober.) During this type of meditation you do not concentrate on what the mind is thinking; thoughts and emotions will come to you while you're concentrating on your breathing. When that happens, we're taught to simply allow the thought to occur, to be given credit that it's occured, but then we just let go of it and return to our meditation.

The same can be said of why deep breathing and relaxation will bring you out of a bad mental loop while tripping. When the drugs speed up your mind...it rattles off more banter at a elivated pace. This overload needs to simply be treated like the baseline conscious experience when thoughts arise in meditation. Allow the weird mental loop to occur, don't fight it. Just simply relax, do not react to the thought/loop, just witness it as something you're experiencing, but work your attention back to simply breathing and remaining relaxed.

Don't know why I didn't think of this parallel earlier...

Love & Light,

Boppity


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Offlinepolarity
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Boppity604]
    #1693633 - 07/07/03 05:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I find the best way for me to get out of a bad thought loop is to remind myself 'hey, your on drugs' I tell myself that and then I laugh at myself.. Talk to some friends.. Do something stupid.. sit there and stare into a black room (dont be in it, just look in a door) and say 'did i just see a big pink elephant in a tutu'.. you didnt, you just said it because i told you to. most likely get you laughing. Basically I find that reminding myself whats going on and taking my mind off it works



--------------------
But I?ll survive, the pain lets me know I?m alive.
But I still feel that this ain?t livin.


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1693645 - 07/07/03 05:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I have found anxiety lowers as you learn to control your trip. I've had some real brain stinger trips before and I have learned to always calm down. Sneaking in a beer or some nicotine can help but will elevate your blood pressure, so if you're not used to those chemicals don't take them.


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Offlinejonocybin
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Stein]
    #1693711 - 07/07/03 06:12 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Decrease some with time, but there will almost always be some anxiety in the psychedelic trip.Try Smoking a bowl or 2 or 3 or 4.....


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OfflineSev
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Stein]
    #1694221 - 07/07/03 09:13 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stein said:Sneaking in a beer or some nicotine can help but will elevate your blood pressure, so if you're not used to those chemicals don't take them. 




Beer'll lower your blood pressure, IIRC.  So maybe drink a beer and smoke a cig and things will balance out?  :wink: 


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Sev]
    #1694427 - 07/07/03 10:29 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sev said:
Quote:

Stein said:Sneaking in a beer or some nicotine can help but will elevate your blood pressure, so if you're not used to those chemicals don't take them. 




Beer'll lower your blood pressure, IIRC.  So maybe drink a beer and smoke a cig and things will balance out?  :wink: 




I beg to  differ , alcohol is known to elevate blood pressure. :wink:


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OfflineSev
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Stein]
    #1695517 - 07/08/03 05:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Aah.  I was talking about acute useage.  Chronic alcohol abuse might lead to hypertension, but alcohol's a depressant on the CNS, so it has the effect of lowering blood pressure, heart rate, and dilating blood vessels while it's in effect.  What the article is talking about is long-term changes that happen when you drink too much for far too long.  :wink:


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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Invisibledilatedcreature
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1695721 - 07/08/03 08:47 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

no eventually your mind breaks down and those doors
of perception
never close

soon enough you're crazy next you're insane


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1695777 - 07/08/03 09:17 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I haven?t got into a anxiety attack in a wile or how I like to call it an "Episode".
Several points to consider, one setting and with who you trip, some times you could be ok but get hooked up in some ones else?s episode.
Some times the environment that you are in can trigger one.
Remember you are changing your state of consciousness, if you resist and don?t go with the flow, this will trigger one cuz you are in conflict.
Also the shroomies don?t like if you take your self to seriously, you have to let go and become like a child to experience them fully and above all laugh at your self a lot.
Some of those a anxiety attacks could be very good lessons about your self, usually are showing things of your personality that you don?t like
A big one for me was guilt, the shroomies help me auto analyze the hole problem I had with guilt, was very therapeutic.
Shrooms are not toys to play with, no one is saying that you will not have fun with them, but if that is the only intention you seek in them just stay at very low dosages, if you intrude into there realm with out respect and purpose they will throw a curve ball and teach you a lesson that you will never forget.
My 2 cents.


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: LOBO]
    #1696463 - 07/08/03 03:34 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think the worst anxiety I have experienced was getting too caught up in how deep the actual thought loop was going; at how fast my thoughts were deconstructing. 

I was thinking about it last night while stoned and to me I see a possible correlation between psychedelics and anxiety.  As we know, when we're sober we're at a baseline metabolic rate.  As we also know, most psychedelics increase activity in the brain.  I think tripping is nothing more than being subjected to having our normal thought patterns "sped up" or "increased" by the drugs.  Likewise, if your pulse starts rising because your heart starts to race (as some people's do while on psychedelics), more oxygen will be hitting your brain, thus making the already-hyped activity even faster.  So if we think of normal brain activity at 50mph and when we dose psychedelics that shoots up to 60-65 mph, naturally just being subject to such a radical shift in mental processes will cause a certain amount of anxiety due to detaching from the ego.  (In this instance, we can consider our "ego" our "I" as the baseline metabolic rate's complete sensory experience.)  When we experience our senses in sobriety/at the baseline, we consider it to be "reality" to be "normal."  But when psychedelics affect the perceptions, when they increase the mental processes as they naturally occur, it becomes a new reality, one that we cannot relate to from the baseline Ego/point of view, so we naturally feel frightened.

I prefer my sober meditations over high dose psychedelic trips when I want to experience detachment because for me, the shift into egolessness is completely smooth and relaxed when I meditate.  No matter how little or how much, psychedelics always "push" me faster than I want to shift at times...and being a naturally anxious person to begin with...that can be enough to ruin the night.  :smile:  I guess the good thing is that I've never "flipped out" when the heavier moments of shroom trips took over...cause at the core of the situation, I know it's just the drug affecting my mind, I know it's not going to kill me no matter how weird it feels and I know from all my previous trips, that I'll be able to enjoy it...just hate feeling the actual emotion of anxiety.

I do agree though that the more you trip at high levels, the easier it is to "spot" an anxiety loop when it starts and to just be able to sit back, allow it to pass through your consciousness, but like I said in another post...the faster you realize it's simply a looping thought pattern in your mind...the easier it is to "step back", watch it occur in your mind, then just as fast as it began, it fades away because you no longer try to hang onto the thought and figure it out.

Wow, why is it easier to talk about psychedelics while on them then when sober?  :smile:  The answer is stated above.  :smile:

Love & Light,

Boppity

   


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Boppity604]
    #1696855 - 07/08/03 05:47 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you all, very good advice indeed from everyone. Boppity your posts have made a lot of sense, thanks.


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1698094 - 07/09/03 01:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

where are you tripping man? Who are you tripping with?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1698417 - 07/09/03 03:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I've tripped twice, both times with my best friend. We get along great, and the settings have been good, once at berkeley's campus, the other time in the mountains. I had basically zero anxiety the first time, but we only took 2 grams. The second time on 3.5g I had a rough come up and some tough times where I questioned my reasons for taking mushrooms, and hoped I'd never do it agian, then realized with frustration that I WOULD take them again, because my sober self would forget. The rest of the trip was great though.


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
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Offlinebokaj
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #23562684 - 08/21/16 01:04 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

when you know how the drug will react you can control it better...over time you get to know your limits...that is if you know that its the same drug you are using.


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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: bokaj]
    #23563128 - 08/21/16 04:20 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Try adding a little syrian rue to the equation, for me it seems to really calm me down..but my answer is yes anxiety lessens with experience. However i find that if i am trying to overcome a behavior and am not comfortable with how im living then it is more scary because i know i have demons to face and form me mushrooms are like basking in the naked truth. Also, if you dont have a little bit of fear then your dose probably isnt healthy enough haha..always approach the mushroom with respect and reverence! The mazatecs believe if one takes mushrooms in the daytime they will go mad, i am inclined to agree with this belief


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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #23563137 - 08/21/16 04:23 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

you're talking about using drugs that play on the lymbic system which plays a role in managing anxiety. upsetting the balance of neurotransmitters can certainly result in increased anxiety, however mushrooms and lsd would likely be the least of your concern as they have no real long term or permanent negative effects that come to mind


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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: Noviseer]
    #23563144 - 08/21/16 04:30 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Every trip is different you can still get anxiety even after a decade of heavy tripping in my experience. It is less frequent and not the same type of fear as when you are new to the experience, but you can still get anxiety on some trips from time to time because the mushroom is mighty!


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience? [Re: bokaj]
    #23563459 - 08/21/16 06:52 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bokaj wrote: over time you get to know your limits




Yeah, OP should be OK now that 13 years have passed..... :lol:

:oldthread:

In fact it's so old it's new to me because it was posted before I joined the Shroomery :mushroom2:

Does anxiety decrease with more trip experience?

Yes, but not necessarily if you are pushing the dose higher on each trip. Eventually you explore as far as you want to go and then you have a wider dose range where you feel comfortable.....but also the knowledge of just how crazy the mindfuck can get....

:tigerbunny:


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I wrote that, but I meant something else


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