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intellegence and tripping
    #519206 -

Do you think that people of higher or lower intellegence are more likely to have a bad trip? I personally think that smarter people are less likely to have bad trips. I consider myself to be a relatively smart person, and do not see how it is possible to have a bad trip. No matter what happens while I am under the influence, whether I am seeing amazingly beautiful patterns or surrounded by disturbing images, I just laugh it off because I know what is happening and why. So do any of you think that the possibility of having bad trips is at all influenced by your level of intellegence?


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"Well why not? Anything worth doings, worth doing right"

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #519212 -

no, not really


intelligence is kind of a vague word
perhaps be more specific
what sort of intelligence?

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #519247 -

i dont know about bad trips relating to low intelligence, but i have found 1 thing about intelligence and tripping. it seems that people of higher intelligence seem to find more "depth" in their trips. dumbasses are generally just saying shit like "wow man the trees look like space ships" etc. i hate tripping with i guess what you could call stupid people. its VERY annoying. they never find anything more in the trip than simple visuals, which they tend to exaggerate to the extreme.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #519290 -

hmmmmmm...
well, intelligent folks are a bit more likely to be tripping for reasons other than to see how fucked up they can get... that's a plus...
but they are also more likey to get into a headspace where they just have to "solve it" -- when sometimes the only solution is to let go...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Edited by gnrm23 (01/13/02 10:18 AM)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #519293 -

I think bad trips have more to do with personality than intelligence.

DXMHEAD420: I totally agree with you on tripping with smart people as opposed to "stupid" people. In my experience, people of lesser intelligence just tend to say things like "I'm so fucked!", "everything is moving!", and "look at the pretty colors!". The people I usually trip with (who are all fairly intelligent) prefer talking about strange abstracts while tripping. It's just more fun.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #519301 -

All of the replys to this thread have summed up what I would have said.

Good work fellas


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Mp3 of the month: The Fire Escape - Love Special Delivery


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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Learyfan]
    #519614 -

What did you say Leary?


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"And the worms ate into his brains."

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #519687 -

"I cant imagine having a bad trip"

Ii used to feel the same way!! I would have such a great time triping I couldnt imagine a bad trip. But I had one. its so funny to hear someonesay the same thing i used to say. though i have only had 2 bad trips out of the 100 or so times ive tripped. My worst was due to cotten mouth, thats right cotten mouth. it got so bad, each breath i tok made it worseand it got to the point where my throat felt like grinding rocks as i swallowed. I was in a state park, lost in a trail and nothing to drink......


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pleezr

"Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!!"

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: trendal]
    #519693 -

also, intellegence has nothing to do with a bad trip. thats a matter of opinion. I consider myself an experienced tripper, and i am in no way "stupid" If you havent had a bad trip, good for you. But to say that intellegence has to do with a bad trip is far from intellegent.. I could go on and on, but this will upset me. too many close minded people.


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pleezr

"Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!!"

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: pleezr]
    #519762 -

It definitely has a little something to do with bad trips, in that that the more intelligent you are the less likely you are to trip in bad surroundings. I doubt that intelligence has much if anything to do with the way the drug actually affects you, though.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: pleezr]
    #519867 -

i know what you mean pleezr, i used to say the same exact thing too, and i had a bad trip and it almost scares you away from mushrooms, but you know you have had more fun on them then not fun, so you do em again :)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: dk138]
    #520250 -

I says all these here replys said what I would have said. I felt the need to say that for some reason there.


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Mp3 of the month: The Fire Escape - Love Special Delivery


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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #520277 -

See, I don't think there's necessarily a firm link between intelligence and safety from bad trips. That said, I do think that smart people are less susceptible to full-on terror-oriented delusional tripping experiences. An intelligent individual is going to realize that he is on a drug, the drug will wear off, and that he will soon be returned to a normal state. However, in my experience a person need not be delusionally terrified (I'm going to die, there are demons everywhere, etc) to have a bad trip... One can instead just suffer a general feeling of malaise, occasionally even an overpowering one. Frankly, I find that even worse than a delusional fear, which would be far easier to correct. Generalized bad vibe tripping is hard to help.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: pleezr]
    #520594 -

>>My worst was due to cotten mouth, thats right cotten mouth.

I know exact;y how you feel. Last time I shroomed (New Years Eve) I smoked a couple blunts before I ate them, and I had the worst feeling in my mouth and throat. I couldn't get the dry scratchy feeling away, so I drank cup after cup of Ice water, and it wouldn't do anything for it. I started to feel REAL cold, and I was covered up with LOTS of blankets, but couldn't get warm. It fuckin freaked me out and I couldn't get lost in my mind because every breath had the scratchy feel.

Thats what blew my chance to grow, because my mom was gonna let me but she saw me freaking out and didn't know what to think, so she said I couldn't trip or grow shrooms. :-(
She did say something along the lines of "I don't care about pot, but not shrooms" so I see that as a permission...

About intelligence and tripping, it doesn't have anything to do with bad trips. I am fairly intelligent, but I have had bad trips the last several times on shrooms. Never on acid. It is all the situation around you and whats going on in your life.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: pleezr]
    #520701 -

I didn't say intelligence has anything to do with a bad trip. In fact, I said I didn't think it had anything to do with a bad trip.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: trendal]
    #520917 -

I've always figured that the smarter you are...the MORE likely you'll have a bad trip. Considering that you supposedly know more about things, like history, english, math, politics, etc...there are more things for the shroom to break down and say "haha...folly on you!"


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Invoke the One together, so Both may disappear.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: chargrt]
    #521240 -

I really don't think intelligence (or lack of it) has anything to do with bad trips. You know how everyone rants about "set and setting" all the time? Well there's a reason for it. Set and setting are EVERYTHING, in my opinion. I have never had a bad trip. I also have never used hallucinogens without being in a comfortable setting with a proper set of mind/emotions.

Personality (outlook, perhaps), set, and setting. Those, in my opinion, are what make a trip good or bad.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: intellegence and tripping *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: chargrt]
    #521499 -

Post deleted by raytrace

Edited by raytrace (09/07/02 07:26 PM)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: raytrace]
    #522805 -

i'll agree with dmxhead about what i have come to call DMXHEAD's Stupid People Theory.

i will likewise agree that set and setting are everything. i have never had an unpleasant trip and don't think i ever will.

but i strongly disagree that more educated thinkers can bad trip easier. i believe anyone can have unpleasant thoughts/emotions while tripping (i am lucky that i have not) but imo there is no reason why someone of a higher intelligence would be more apt to freaking out. however, i can see a good point in the argument that people of lower intelligence would be more likely to completely flip out on a trip. oh yea and one thing i completely forgot about is dosage... that would be an important factor in the likeliness of a bad trip.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: geokills]
    #522851 -

its dXm head, not dMx head.
dmx is a rapper. dxm is dextromethorphan hydrobromide.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #523047 -

i think a person's general state of mind has everything to do with whether or not they have a bad trip. a happy idiot would probably have a better trip than a depressed genius. if your generally happy then you'll usually have a good time. I do think that people of higher intelligence tend to get more out of their trips though. that also goes for individuals that are spiritually inclined.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #523073 -

lol... yea uhh, i was just testin yah :-/


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: gnrm23]
    #523169 -

I agree with GNR. -sometimes you just have to let go- shrooming can be for enlightenment and it also makes for a damn good time. In my opinion when I have to act all prim and proper in normal life shrooming makes for a great release. Just let let go and fucking party like a rock star. And let the normal people try to figure out what the magic is.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: AzulAgave]
    #523175 -

lets look at it this way.

Lets suppose that it is true that psychedelics change one's perception about reality. Let's also suppose that psychedelics affect one's ability to reason intuitively, often times enhancing intuition beyond sober levels, but at the same time, disintegrates the ego, so normal judgement and thought filters about particular issues disappear.

Let us also assume that a person who is a "genius" also has more intuitive reasoning ability than someone who is "stupid" (ex. not many 'stupid people' could ever make the intuitive leap that einstein did to come up with relativity).

Ok, let us also assume that mushrooms affect our brains in generally teh same way.

Let us also assume that consciousness receives informationabout reality through this brain.

So, with those last two assumptions, you have the basis to argue that those who already posess a "larger" base of awareness, or more intelligence, will make more connections between seemingly unrelated phenomina compared to those of lesser ability.

Ok, so, lets just put a number on this for argument's sake, in terms of IQ (IQ in this case meaning analytical reasoning/logic/intuitive reasoning/spacial reasoning), because it is the industry standard format for measuring "intelligence. So, just for argument's sake, lets say that 2.5 grams of cubensis increases iq temporarily for a difference of lets say 20 pts. (this is just arbitrary, just look at the analogy im trying to make here, this is just a concept in my head, so i cant put it directly into language.)

So, given that the 'average' level of intelligence is 100 (yes, i know its now somewhere around 114), if you add 20 to that, you get 120 pts. Now, that's pretty smart. I read once that the average iq of doctors is around 120-125 pts.

Now, lets take a genius. Lets take someone who consistently scores around 140 on the iq test. They are brilliant and already posess more ability to see intuitive connections, while sober, than the average person does while tripping. Of ocurse, this assumes that the genius is actually using his abilities, but let's assume that so i dont have to psychoanalyze him. When taking his dose, he gets bumped up to an incredible 160.

Now, 120 vs. 160 is an incredible difference in intelligence level.

Now, given that psychedelics tend to make one think, or even increase the speed of thought, and given that greater intelligence GENERALLY leads to greater awareness of reality, self, and society (assuming potential use here, again), while at the same time giving the user a greater ability to make creative, intuitive connections, it is easy to see that a person who is "smarter" will be able to make more connections.

Now, cant assume anything about psychology, but those who are gifted intelligence-wise tend to be more depressed, so that would tend to lead to the thought that they would have more bad trips.

But at the same time, those of average intelligence might become overwhelmed at the flood of new information that simplly wont be able to be integrated into normal consciousness. So, perhaps they would have more bad trips.

Now, what about the thought that not all bad trips are the same.

There seem to be two major categories: primal fear and paranoia/self loathing.

I contend that those of lower intelligence will have more of a primal reaction and those of a higher intelligence will face paranoia and self-loathing due to the uncontrollably strong abilitiy to see connections, ie: SENSE CAUSALITY.

So, in the end, i dont know. I think that intelligent people will ultimately be able to learn more, but average people will still be able to benefit, just not in the same way.

I could keep going, but this is long, lemme know what you think and if you want me to expand on anything.


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True wisdom is the knowledge that nothing is impossible except for absolute knowledge.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523282 -

I think that people who have to talk about their experiences in such a way as to suggest that they have some inate quality that makes their experiences somehow more legitimate and profound misses the entire point of the psychedelic experience. The 'im so smart i cant get bad trips' idea is so sad that its funny - its like 'im get some much more out of my trips than everyone else - and i need to brag about it' and that is nearly always the kind of person with an ego-centric mind-view that DO have bad trips and are NOT fun to be around


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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523353 -

If I read your post correctly, it looks like you are trying to say (in part) that level of intelligence does not really have an effect on the possibility of a bad trip (at least not directly, anyway). This is the theory that I supscribe to.

Ok, and I have to say that your idea about why bad trips happen and what the different causes could be for someone who is "intelligent" as opposed to someone who isn't is an extremely good theory. I like it. Nice reasoning :-)


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #523785 -

ok, before i quote you, i never placed myself into either category.

In reply to:


I think that people who have to talk about their experiences in such a way as to suggest that they have some inate quality that makes their experiences somehow more legitimate and profound misses the entire point of the psychedelic experience. The 'im so smart i cant get bad trips' idea is so sad that its funny - its like 'im get some much more out of my trips than everyone else - and i need to brag about it' and that is nearly always the kind of person with an ego-centric mind-view that DO have bad trips and are NOT fun to be around



Look, it is a simple, measurable fact, that iq works by testing abstract reasoning, and the ability to make connections that otherwise wouldnt seem apparent.

So, wouldnt the logical progression of that then integrate the psychedelic experience, which does the same thing?

And if so, wouldnt that then mean that those who are higher in what we call "IQ" going to have different types of trips and different types of bad trips than those who are lower in the 'iq' dept>

Keep in mind that in tribal times, only a small number,if only one, of the tribe would have access to these chemicals.

Lesser intelligence in the abstract, doesnt meanthat they have less intelligence in the concrete. And it works the other way around. IQ is specifically designed to test abstract intelligence.

It is known that those with higher iq's will see more connections and see more patterns, theywill make thoseconnections and recognized them. Tehrefore, genius level people who take psychedelics have the possibility of making connections that otherwise dont mean ANYTHING, and end up dwelling on a negative concept that means nothing in the end. But that iswhere i said personality comes in.

Its not about ego-centrism. It is about detachedly analyzing consciuosness and its interaction with these substances.

I also NEVER NEVER stated that the intelligent one would gain MORE from their trip than the average person, i just said that they would learn an overall greater amount, abstractly, but proportionately, it would be the same.

I just find that people of higher intelligence tend to see more implications in every thought, touch and hallucination they have. Instead of being COMPLETELY convinced that it is just a drug, and what they are seeing is unreal because it is a drug, the more intelligent can sense that the drug is interacting with consciousness by temporarily changing the biological filter which feeds it, so that there isnt necessarily a false reality created, but one which exists, but is filtered by our unconscious mind and our biological brains.

I hope im making sense


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True wisdom is the knowledge that nothing is impossible except for absolute knowledge.

Edited by UrQuattro (01/17/02 07:35 PM)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523908 -

sorry - my reply wasnt intended as one to you


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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DEnoG]
    #524763 -

maybe some to do with experience, setting, but 70% of it has got to be ur beliefs. doubt is one of the biggest factors in having a bad trip. doesn't matter how smart u are, if u don't have confidence or conviction, that's what'll fuck you.
i'd even say that 'intelligence' can increase the risk - usually the more you think, the more doubts u have about reality and the more cynical you become.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: degenerate_]
    #527422 -

I've noticed that too... stupid people take psychedelics simply to get really fucked up (at least where I live) while me, my brother, and some friends become very enlightened while tripping and it doesn't really bother us at all if we don't get that many visuals. I first got interested in psychedelics for the visuals, but now I use it for purely for religious reasons, and to learn more about myself/other people etc. Just the other night I was tripping on six hits of LSD and my visuals were slim to none, but the trip itself was one of the most profound ones I've yet to experience.

~zahid


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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #527994 -

I think having a bad trip has to do a lot with the envirment were you do it, I once did it in New Yok city in an apartment, and I thoght I went to hell, I came out ok because of my self control, since then I only do it in Nature and I never had a bad trip


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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #528065 -

I think that a good or bad trip is dependant on your focus at the time you dose... I've traced my "bad" trips back to something in the back of my mind (the unconscious) that I didn't realize was "bugging" me when I dosed. My good trips are ones where I anticipated tripping for days before I took the dose... ...Tannis

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #562877 -

hey, UrQuattro, good points in your posts, nice ideas.
anyhow..
I've seen some people I consider borderline genius have bad trips. So I dont think that's got too much to do with a trip going wrong.
However I do think that 'smart' people often find deeper meaning in their trips then 'dumb' people.

Easy to test I suppose, ask ppl that seem to come out of trips with deeply spiritual and enlightening reports to do IQ test, do they score above 120?  :smile:

Ah nevermind, wouldn't work anyways, never seen an IQ test on the internet that was bogus (if you know of one, lemme know).


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    Look at that bunch over there man, They've spotted us !

Melic  :tongue:

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #565475 -

A good idea. I think it might be a little related, but the main thing is controlling yourself. there are many factors involved with being able to control oneself, and I am sure one of them would be intellegence. I consider myself quite intellegent, and also never come close to a bad trip, but there is a bigger picture to say the least. Being depressed may induce a bad trip, or even being in a bad state of mind during the voyage. Even smart people can have a hard time remembering why this is happening and that"it's just the drug". A bad trip can happen to everyone because no matter how smart we are, we are still human, and ther are times when we will simply be not in control, or deceived, or etc. I think it has more to do with confidence, and the ability to convince yourself that it's ok, and being smart is probably the first step in doing so.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #565478 -

Damn I didn't read the whole thing. DMXhead,what a good point!! smarter people can simply understand there trip better, because they have the means too. I hate trying to explain my wonderful journeys drifting through levels of concuoisness, and my understanding of my trips and all that and then hearing
"ya, ok but what did you see??!!" Shutup ya dumbass, I'm trying to explain my thoery on the relationship between society and myself, and my veiws on society and what my trip has tought me about myself and you want to know what I saw?? Dipshit!!!! To shut them up I say"a tree talked to me", and it usually satisfies there little minds, so they will shut up, and let me explain.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Glacius]
    #565960 -

Hay wait up! I'm stupid and have only ever had one bad trip out of the many years of psychedelic usage, i would do the math but as I said...
"Hay maaaan that chair looks so cool in all it's wickeryness and stuff, kinda like aaaabstract!" " Huxley! I told you to shut the fuck up and enjoy that Mescalin!"


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We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams...

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #623411 -

I was doing some searching and just wanted to add something from my experience. I consider myself a smart person and have experienced a horrifying bad trip. I was in a very comfortable set and setting. At my friend's house with no one else but me and two friends and no obligations at all. I had experienced a minute bad trip before that, and after mentally warding it off, I thought (just like the naive people I see here), that I could never have another bad trip(or "I don't see how I could ever had a bad trip....It'll never happen to me"). I thought that everything that I would ever encounter, could be controlled by my mind. This is not true. After smoking massive amounts of cannabis on a relatively large dose of LSD, something happened that blew my mind and I never thought it was possible. My head opened up and I could feel something along the lines of an evil rollercoaster flying through one ear and out the other. It continued a bunch of times and it scared the living shit out of me...and unfortunately I could not stop the feeling..."Oh its only the acid, I'll be fine." But the terrifying feeling would not stop and after a while it drove me to the point where I swore I was insane. I could feel my brain and then my body and organs grinding around and shifting up and down. It truly was beyond my control. My advice is...please be careful, yet do not fear psychedelics. They have very much to show to you, but never ever underestimate their awesome power. Just realize you'll always sober up, and enjoy it while the magic is still there...you'll miss it when it's gone. Happy Trails everyone.


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need that cash to feed them jones.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #626747 -

i think EQ (emotinal quantity) has more to do in a bad-good trip - more than IQ.
if you feel bad, fastrated or anixy the more eq you'll know how you feel why and what to do to make you feel better.
its all in awarness, not intelegence.

a growin original

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #815613 -

I totally agree with DXMHEAD - Tripping with people who just do it to get fucked up is real annoying. Just the other day I ate some fresh shrooms with a friend and two of his friends. I had to ask him to take me home like an hour after I ate them cuz they were just all like "man i am fucked up!!" really loud and I wasn't enjoying it at all. I went home and watched tv with my parents and had a better time.


I really think you can sense how philosophical people are about eating shrooms by just the music they listen to. Personally I can't listen to anything other than Bob Marley, Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia or Pink Floyd. It really annoys me when someone im tripping with puts in some mainstream music cuz it really just destroys my trip.


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"If you want to improve be content to be thought foolish & stupid." -quote from some movie

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #815753 -

Like most everyone else here, I'm gonna agree with DXMhead. Nothing is more annoying to me then when someone sais ' man, I am SO fucked up' while tripping. Generally those kinds of people are on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum from what I've experienced.

I too got into psychadelics for the visuals at first, but after my first mushroom trip I realised that they were much more then just a visual trip. I enjoyed my mind much more then 'watching things move and melt'. Seeing things is great, but it only last a short time for me before I start getting lost in my head.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #821803 -

i think its all about your own will. before i trip i make damn sure im ready for it. taken in moderation(a little at a time) you are sure to adjust. your right a strong mind is less likely to have a bad trip. one just has to realize the only thing that has changed since dosing is ones perception of reality. and of course being comfortable w/ your surroundings is very important

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #1413215 -

I believe that smart people do have better trips. The person doing the tripping needs to have a very strong mind otherwise he will get caught up in the unreal.


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Holler!

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #5342970 -

Quote:
Now, cant assume anything about psychology, but those who are gifted intelligence-wise tend to be more depressed, so that would tend to lead to the thought that they would have more bad trips.

But at the same time, those of average intelligence might become overwhelmed at the flood of new information that simplly wont be able to be integrated into normal consciousness. So, perhaps they would have more bad trips.




The whole thing was well said, but I singled out the above because it is quite the deep agument. so here's my two cents on it.

My last tested IQ (tested in 7th grade, the last time I got a chance to take a test) was 147, so a shroom trip would put it at 167. I've never tripped on shrooms, and the last time I tried to take an internet IQ test while tripping on acid I was a bit too fucked up in terms of OEVs and so couldn't read the screen and thus didn't get a chance to take it.

I am failing 2 classes right now, and the last time I tripped I was getting all Cs. My parents were pissed about those grades, and are now even more mad, but I didn't feel self loathing while sober. It may be because I prepared myself for the trip by realizing that I still beat my dad by 450 points on the SAT test, and so needn't worry about my skills, and it may be because I am not someone who stresses much.

When I tripped, I realized that it may end up as what some people would call "bad" because of my life at the time. So set wasn't ideal, but I felt that I had reconciled myself with the situation as best as I could sober, and so any problemsthat came up during the trip would have to be trivial or unsolvable. Since I knew that, I just relaxed and allowed things to happen, not trying to solve anything, just see my faults and insecurities, as well as the other things that come with tripping.

The bad trip argument you made for smart people would say that I could have gotten stuck in a thought loop or general horrible vibe, but that didn't happen. It may have something to do with the preperation and foresight involved, but I didn't have a "bad trip" some people may have called it that, because of some of the weird visuals that would have had some people shitting their pants (bad things happening to pictures, reflections, that kind of thing), but I just felt that I got to see and feel a new way of perception, the things that we deny the possibility of in everyday life.

Now, many people would call that a bad trip, but could it be that a bad trip is just a new depth of tripping that your average induhvidual is scared of, no matter what, or that most people, not just the lummoxes prone to huge primal fear, hold onto denial until the point of either ego loss or total mental brekdown?

I don't know, and I don't think that the moe intelligent poeple are immune to bad trips, far from it. I just think that the definition of a "bad trip", if you harbor one at all, is more expansive as ignorance of your own mind increases. Still, I wouldn't trip right now, because I think my set (2 Fs, severe anger at a couple friends, minor semi-voluntary(?) depression) is too far off of ideal to make a "good trip", or any trip that I can psychologically indure, likely.


--------------------
__________________________________________________
Any mistakes in the above are the fault of the reader and/or his dealer.

In the teachings of Zen, the beginner's mind is the most restful, the most aware. As we age, we lose that mind, the mind of the child. David Blaine once said "A little baby doesn't need magic, for it already lives in a world of astonishment, wonder, and discovery. For one fleeting moment, that is what magic does for the rest of us." Well, that is what psychedelics do for me, but over a longer period of time. So before you go regulating what I take into my body, keep that in mind.
I will break the laws of the ignorant bigots who seek to stop me from experiencing a higher conciousness.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: happycamper]
    #5343068 -

happycamper said:
I really think you can sense how philosophical people are about eating shrooms by just the music they listen to.  Personally I can't listen to anything other than Bob Marley, Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia or Pink Floyd.  It really annoys me when someone im tripping with puts in some mainstream music cuz it really just destroys my trip.   


I very much agree. one time I was tripping at a friend's house, and some idiot had wandered in (later realised it was my friend's roommate) and put on some black eyed peas. I had been having a wonderful trip until then, but I didn't like the music at all, and had to flip the circuit breaker to make it stop cause the guy was sitting on the remote. took him 8 hours to figure out where the cirucit breaker was. Biggest dipshit I ever met. :smirk: at least the darkness helped the visuals.

Even worse than a terrifying trip is when, after the trip when you are trying to figure out what you learned, somebody keeps asking what you saw, and won't shut up until you come up with something outlandish enough to satisfy him. at least on a "bad trip" you have time and space for your thoughts, even if they aren't constructive. Thoughts, or the ability to experience what is being percived, are what I hold most valuable (I would say sacred, but I don't think there is a singular divine)


--------------------
__________________________________________________
Any mistakes in the above are the fault of the reader and/or his dealer.

In the teachings of Zen, the beginner's mind is the most restful, the most aware. As we age, we lose that mind, the mind of the child. David Blaine once said "A little baby doesn't need magic, for it already lives in a world of astonishment, wonder, and discovery. For one fleeting moment, that is what magic does for the rest of us." Well, that is what psychedelics do for me, but over a longer period of time. So before you go regulating what I take into my body, keep that in mind.
I will break the laws of the ignorant bigots who seek to stop me from experiencing a higher conciousness.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: fleshofgods]
    #5343233 -

fleshofgods said:
I believe that smart people do have better trips. The person doing the tripping needs to have a very strong mind otherwise he will get caught up in the unreal.


Get caught up in the unreal? What exactly is the unreal? How do you know what you are seeing/perceiving/feeling is unreal? Just because our minds cannot understand it does not make it unreal it may be just as real as you and me. 'Unreal' is a bias word. You feel something unique while tripping and you throw it away as unreal just because that is your conscious mind telling you so.

There is energy all around us everywhere and you need to open yourself up to it. After tripping a mere few times I have learned how to 'open' myself up to these kinds of energies. It really makes you a better person.

I happen to have a strong mind and above average in intelligence. When I trip the feelings I get seem more real than my waking state. We just live in a dream world that is over in a snap of a finger.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Tangerines]
    #5343376 -

Wow! How strange to see this thread at the top when I came in here! I was going to post a -very- similar question. And what an interesting thread, btw. My question is this - can you teach somebody to get more out of their trip? Someone very close to me had never used psychedelics before I met her, and knows very little about them.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5343854 -

IQ has very little to do with bad trip probabilities and what not IMO. I feel that it's more about the attitude that tripping is approached with.

And about people who trip just to get fucked up, I can't stand that on shrooms. fuck the visuals, it's all about the thought changes. I'm a very logical person and I tend to construct huge logical chains to explain whats around me normally. When tripping those logic chains dissappear or become incredibly short. My thought patterns allow me to make connections I never could make before. I would much rather take advantage of that and make it useful than just get fucked up and see shit.


--------------------

Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Kaleidoscope]
    #5343972 -

Its all about intention, and how you plan or avoid planning to seperate yourself from that other mind. The one that will take control eventually. That "entity" is very intelligent, and It will kick your ass too. Your ability to talk to it, and retain the information that is true, it does indeed depend on intelligence to some degree.
It will always be there to help it's self along whether it be in the arts, in the sciences, or even surprizingly in the ever so real beastial oblivion that is filled with societal confines that we call home. Simple cognition.....

Edited by stemmer (02/27/06 01:53 AM)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5344106 -

mycocitizen said:
Do you think that people of higher or lower intellegence are more likely to have a bad trip? I personally think that smarter people are less likely to have bad trips. I consider myself to be a relatively smart person, and do not see how it is possible to have a bad trip. No matter what happens while I am under the influence, whether I am seeing amazingly beautiful patterns or surrounded by disturbing images, I just laugh it off because I know what is happening and why. So do any of you think that the possibility of having bad trips is at all influenced by your level of intellegence?


this would be some interesting research...


--------------------
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or
insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."

"Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a main era - -the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant."

Hunter S. Thompson.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #5344140 -

UrQuattro said:
<br>There seem to be two major categories: primal fear and paranoia/self loathing.
<br>
<br>I contend that those of lower intelligence will have more of a primal reaction and those of a higher intelligence will face paranoia and self-loathing due to the uncontrollably strong abilitiy to see connections, ie: SENSE CAUSALITY.
<br>


I'd like to say I can confirm one of your conclusions(IQ being around 135). I never get scared of anything during a trip;(I had my first trip in Amsterdams red light district at night)people I don't know don't bother me, I always feel in control of the situation and I certainly haven't seen any demonic stuff. However, I can get into a pretty emotional strugle every now and then. Most of the times it is triggered by the reason you mentioned; words that are said or reactions of my friends on my behavior that I notice race through my brain and activate all kind of my everyday problems. But it's never became a bad trip cause I usually tell myself it doesn't matter how I feel now, but how everything is gonna be in the long run. I have no clue what the hell it means but it helps.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: oblivia]
    #5346297 -

I love this thread and that it got resurrected (again)!

Being one of those people with a statistically high IQ (I'm in the "Nobel" category) and a life-long interest in types of intelligence, theories of mind/consciousness/cognition/perception, etc., here's my two cents.

I tend to agree with all those who posit the importance of set + setting - I include mindset within the overall category of "set."  I try to avoid linguistic value judgements like smarter/dumber, but it's hard because we literally don't have language for describing concepts free of such judgements in English.  Anywho, I also tend to agree that IQ (shorthand for abstract thinking and logical reasoning) is, if not irrelevant, then certainly of far less importance in determining whether one has a "good" or "bad" trip.  Especially given that value judgements like good/bad are at least as subjective as intelligence - one person's bad trip is another's profound learning experience.

If we accept that everything is a creation of mind: good/bad, thoughts, feelings, reality, the world around us, the language we use to quantify it, etc., then I think it's more accurate to suggest that those who have a more refined set of abstract reasoning skills may tend to notice/revel in/dwell on/obsess about/emphasize the mental aspects of a trip.  Or, to put it another way, I suspect that Leary, Ram Dass, McKenna, et al were essentially correct:

Outside of set + setting, those who have a strong sense of ego but who lack the analytical tools for understanding it conceptually are more likely to have a "bad" trip when experiencing ego dissolution.
   
I experience profound depression pretty much every day & definitely every time I trip, but I don't consider it bad.  On the contrary, I find my sadness far less painful in the context of tripping.  With my rational mind I believe that what society labels depression is a sane response to an insane, unjust world, but when I'm tripping I know it with my whole being, not simply logically.

In about twenty years of ingesting mind-altering substances, I've had one trip that I would consider "bad," while on mushrooms - for about three hours I heard a loud, high-pitched whine, saw an uncomfortably bright blue light (eyes open or closed), and felt so cold I couldn't stop shaking :sad:.  I got into bed (luckily I was at home) under every blanket I could find, whimpered a lot and repeated, "I will learn from this," over and over until I fell asleep for half an hour.  When I woke up, I had the best visuals I've ever had on mushrooms and was profoundly grateful :mushroom2:.  All in all, not really so "bad".

At any rate, I prefer to think in terms of tendencies (a la Robert Anton Wilson), rather than absolutes & value judgements, and I apologize for such a long post.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5346360 -

Misspelling intelligence is not a very smart move. Especially when you're posting a thread to discuss it. Way to go..

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Jeroen198]
    #5346632 -

I think intelligent people might get more out of their trips than lesser intelligent. Terence McKenna said that lesser intelligent people are likely less capable of paying attention to the underlying meaning behind the "show" of hallucinations and transfusing the hallucinations into an innate meaning. He also said that trips can be more challenging for more intelligent people because they tend to know that a hallucination is as real as anything...what you see might not be there, but that doesn't mean its not happening in one form or another. What we consider reality is just our perception of a very small % of what actually comprises true reality. He says that lesser intelligent people tend to brush these experiences off as just being 'fucked up' like others have said, just a 'trip' that wasn't actually real.


In my experience, its always the less intelligent people who have one bad trip and never want to do it again. I think this says that they never got much from the good trips to begin with other than some recreational fun. I don't think this predisposes them to bad trips, but they may certainly be less likely to handle a bad trip objectively.


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: kake]
    #5346671 -

i dont know man...some of the less intelligent people are most less likely to badtrip, When losing control I say. They just end up lookin at everythin with a dazed look, or layin on the ground, playin with the bunny. Some of them, their games just come apart and they dont realize it.

Now some of the intelligents, on their first times, who analyze and all and think they are so wise and thats its a tool, could find out its completely useless peaking on a solid dose of lsd! They will be like tryin to understand what the fuck is goin on, put thoughts on it, like they do in their life, but they cant! And the effect just having an introspective thought on a good dose, can be extreme! And they keep introspection on the fact that their ego is slipping away, and they like their intelligence and control on their world so they dont want to go...The 6 sure turned out to be a 9 for me!

I was like im wise what the fuck could happen...Ha ha.

inteligence can be a great tool to find the way, but thibkin bout yourself or anythin really deep but rational can make you miss the bus, and you get stuck in the point of no return. And I hate that.

Edited by Grapefruity (02/27/06 09:23 PM)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5346882 -

mycocitizen said:
Do you think that people of higher or lower intellegence are more likely to have a bad trip? I personally think that smarter people are less likely to have bad trips. I consider myself to be a relatively smart person, and do not see how it is possible to have a bad trip. No matter what happens while I am under the influence, whether I am seeing amazingly beautiful patterns or surrounded by disturbing images, I just laugh it off because I know what is happening and why. So do any of you think that the possibility of having bad trips is at all influenced by your level of intellegence?


Huh?

{Sorry, I couldn't help the irony.}


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Bamaman]
    #5346960 -

I dont think IQ has anything to do with it - but the willingness to let go, accept the expierence, and have fun with it.

I'd like to think I'm a fairly smart person - and I find at times I get 'stuck' in the trap of over-analyizing my trip and trying to figure out how / why it works, how the visuals are forming, what aspects trigger what effects in my trip / etc.

Which now and then can be fusturating, as I think "OMG, I get it......" and then things will go crazy and disprove the theory I'd been working on in my head for the last hour :smile:

All in all, it's still good fun - but I dont think IQ or brains has anything to do with 'bad trip vs good trip'.

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #5347005 -

Roger_irrelevant said:
<br>"Hay maaaan that chair looks so cool in all it's wickeryness and stuff, kinda like aaaabstract!"</font> " Huxley! I told you to shut the fuck up and enjoy that Mescalin!"</font>


ROFL something very funny about the phrase Huxley shut the fuck up! LOL

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: chris92346]
    #5349154 -

hehe intelligence...it kinda is hard to determine...But some people I see in society, it kinda sux. Some they intellectualize so much and when you start talking biefly but right to the poit and not intellectualizing like crazy. in their head its clear you arent as bright as them, and they wont even consider what you say :p

A friend of mine, you find a good point that refutates his, that makes him start intelectualizing even more, very agressvely, and you laugh in your beard :p

But a previous poster gave a good point. Its not about intelligence, its about will. And attachment to yourself, to the extreme, egocentricity.... But the intelligent ones are often more self conscious, as it was in evolution, and have great control on themselves...So in a good solid trip they might cling to their ego and that can be bad or good. Often for a first timer its bad though. I dont define a badtrip like seeing stuff that scare you...Its accute fear, panic about going crazy or dying. Or as intense as someone involved in a plane crashing seeing the worst coming, just that you know you will end up alive though. Its painful . It is often torture.

I think every body need an experience when they will fight to be, and they kinda freak out...when everything calms down, it is the best trip ever. It is like you had your lecture now your mom softens, says that she loves you and hugs you. You survived the crash, after all.

Edited by Grapefruity (02/28/06 02:00 PM)

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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Grapefruity]
    #5349251 -

Now that I think about it I think it's really not about IQ at all. It's about common sense and understanding the drug. If a person, no matter how intelligent reads up about the experience and understands what it's about to some degree he or she is much less likely to have a bad trip. The smartest person in the world could have a bad trip if he or she did no research and had no understanding of the effects. the same applies to the dumbest person in the world.


--------------------

Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.

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