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Offlinems5712
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #821803 - 08/16/02 07:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

i think its all about your own will. before i trip i make damn sure im ready for it. taken in moderation(a little at a time) you are sure to adjust. your right a strong mind is less likely to have a bad trip. one just has to realize the only thing that has changed since dosing is ones perception of reality. and of course being comfortable w/ your surroundings is very important


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Offlinefleshofgods
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #1413215 - 03/27/03 05:49 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I believe that smart people do have better trips. The person doing the tripping needs to have a very strong mind otherwise he will get caught up in the unreal.


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OfflineBurning_Skies
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #5342970 - 02/26/06 10:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Now, cant assume anything about psychology, but those who are gifted intelligence-wise tend to be more depressed, so that would tend to lead to the thought that they would have more bad trips.

But at the same time, those of average intelligence might become overwhelmed at the flood of new information that simplly wont be able to be integrated into normal consciousness. So, perhaps they would have more bad trips.






The whole thing was well said, but I singled out the above because it is quite the deep agument. so here's my two cents on it.

My last tested IQ (tested in 7th grade, the last time I got a chance to take a test) was 147, so a shroom trip would put it at 167. I've never tripped on shrooms, and the last time I tried to take an internet IQ test while tripping on acid I was a bit too fucked up in terms of OEVs and so couldn't read the screen and thus didn't get a chance to take it.

I am failing 2 classes right now, and the last time I tripped I was getting all Cs. My parents were pissed about those grades, and are now even more mad, but I didn't feel self loathing while sober. It may be because I prepared myself for the trip by realizing that I still beat my dad by 450 points on the SAT test, and so needn't worry about my skills, and it may be because I am not someone who stresses much.

When I tripped, I realized that it may end up as what some people would call "bad" because of my life at the time. So set wasn't ideal, but I felt that I had reconciled myself with the situation as best as I could sober, and so any problemsthat came up during the trip would have to be trivial or unsolvable. Since I knew that, I just relaxed and allowed things to happen, not trying to solve anything, just see my faults and insecurities, as well as the other things that come with tripping.

The bad trip argument you made for smart people would say that I could have gotten stuck in a thought loop or general horrible vibe, but that didn't happen. It may have something to do with the preperation and foresight involved, but I didn't have a "bad trip" some people may have called it that, because of some of the weird visuals that would have had some people shitting their pants (bad things happening to pictures, reflections, that kind of thing), but I just felt that I got to see and feel a new way of perception, the things that we deny the possibility of in everyday life.

Now, many people would call that a bad trip, but could it be that a bad trip is just a new depth of tripping that your average induhvidual is scared of, no matter what, or that most people, not just the lummoxes prone to huge primal fear, hold onto denial until the point of either ego loss or total mental brekdown?

I don't know, and I don't think that the moe intelligent poeple are immune to bad trips, far from it. I just think that the definition of a "bad trip", if you harbor one at all, is more expansive as ignorance of your own mind increases. Still, I wouldn't trip right now, because I think my set (2 Fs, severe anger at a couple friends, minor semi-voluntary(?) depression) is too far off of ideal to make a "good trip", or any trip that I can psychologically indure, likely.


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__________________________________________________
Any mistakes in the above are the fault of the reader and/or his dealer.

In the teachings of Zen, the beginner's mind is the most restful, the most aware. As we age, we lose that mind, the mind of the child. David Blaine once said "A little baby doesn't need magic, for it already lives in a world of astonishment, wonder, and discovery. For one fleeting moment, that is what magic does for the rest of us." Well, that is what psychedelics do for me, but over a longer period of time. So before you go regulating what I take into my body, keep that in mind.
I will break the laws of the ignorant bigots who seek to stop me from experiencing a higher conciousness.


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OfflineBurning_Skies
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: happycamper]
    #5343068 - 02/26/06 11:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

happycamper said:

I really think you can sense how philosophical people are about eating shrooms by just the music they listen to.  Personally I can't listen to anything other than Bob Marley, Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia or Pink Floyd.  It really annoys me when someone im tripping with puts in some mainstream music cuz it really just destroys my trip.   




I very much agree. one time I was tripping at a friend's house, and some idiot had wandered in (later realised it was my friend's roommate) and put on some black eyed peas. I had been having a wonderful trip until then, but I didn't like the music at all, and had to flip the circuit breaker to make it stop cause the guy was sitting on the remote. took him 8 hours to figure out where the cirucit breaker was. Biggest dipshit I ever met. :smirk: at least the darkness helped the visuals.

Even worse than a terrifying trip is when, after the trip when you are trying to figure out what you learned, somebody keeps asking what you saw, and won't shut up until you come up with something outlandish enough to satisfy him. at least on a "bad trip" you have time and space for your thoughts, even if they aren't constructive. Thoughts, or the ability to experience what is being percived, are what I hold most valuable (I would say sacred, but I don't think there is a singular divine)


--------------------
__________________________________________________
Any mistakes in the above are the fault of the reader and/or his dealer.

In the teachings of Zen, the beginner's mind is the most restful, the most aware. As we age, we lose that mind, the mind of the child. David Blaine once said "A little baby doesn't need magic, for it already lives in a world of astonishment, wonder, and discovery. For one fleeting moment, that is what magic does for the rest of us." Well, that is what psychedelics do for me, but over a longer period of time. So before you go regulating what I take into my body, keep that in mind.
I will break the laws of the ignorant bigots who seek to stop me from experiencing a higher conciousness.


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: fleshofgods]
    #5343233 - 02/26/06 11:56 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fleshofgods said:
I believe that smart people do have better trips. The person doing the tripping needs to have a very strong mind otherwise he will get caught up in the unreal.




Get caught up in the unreal? What exactly is the unreal? How do you know what you are seeing/perceiving/feeling is unreal? Just because our minds cannot understand it does not make it unreal it may be just as real as you and me. 'Unreal' is a bias word. You feel something unique while tripping and you throw it away as unreal just because that is your conscious mind telling you so.

There is energy all around us everywhere and you need to open yourself up to it. After tripping a mere few times I have learned how to 'open' myself up to these kinds of energies. It really makes you a better person.

I happen to have a strong mind and above average in intelligence. When I trip the feelings I get seem more real than my waking state. We just live in a dream world that is over in a snap of a finger.


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OfflineWhAcKeD
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Tangerines]
    #5343376 - 02/27/06 12:27 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Wow! How strange to see this thread at the top when I came in here! I was going to post a -very- similar question. And what an interesting thread, btw. My question is this - can you teach somebody to get more out of their trip? Someone very close to me had never used psychedelics before I met her, and knows very little about them.


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OfflineKaleidoscope
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5343854 - 02/27/06 02:29 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

IQ has very little to do with bad trip probabilities and what not IMO. I feel that it's more about the attitude that tripping is approached with.

And about people who trip just to get fucked up, I can't stand that on shrooms. fuck the visuals, it's all about the thought changes. I'm a very logical person and I tend to construct huge logical chains to explain whats around me normally. When tripping those logic chains dissappear or become incredibly short. My thought patterns allow me to make connections I never could make before. I would much rather take advantage of that and make it useful than just get fucked up and see shit.


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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Kaleidoscope]
    #5343972 - 02/27/06 03:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Its all about intention, and how you plan or avoid planning to seperate yourself from that other mind. The one that will take control eventually. That "entity" is very intelligent, and It will kick your ass too. Your ability to talk to it, and retain the information that is true, it does indeed depend on intelligence to some degree.
It will always be there to help it's self along whether it be in the arts, in the sciences, or even surprizingly in the ever so real beastial oblivion that is filled with societal confines that we call home. Simple cognition.....


Edited by stemmer (02/27/06 03:53 AM)


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Offlineinv3rse
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5344106 - 02/27/06 05:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mycocitizen said:
Do you think that people of higher or lower intellegence are more likely to have a bad trip? I personally think that smarter people are less likely to have bad trips. I consider myself to be a relatively smart person, and do not see how it is possible to have a bad trip. No matter what happens while I am under the influence, whether I am seeing amazingly beautiful patterns or surrounded by disturbing images, I just laugh it off because I know what is happening and why. So do any of you think that the possibility of having bad trips is at all influenced by your level of intellegence?




this would be some interesting research...


--------------------
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or
insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."

"Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a main era - -the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant."

Hunter S. Thompson.


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Offlineoblivia
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #5344140 - 02/27/06 05:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

UrQuattro said:
<br>There seem to be two major categories: primal fear and paranoia/self loathing.
<br>
<br>I contend that those of lower intelligence will have more of a primal reaction and those of a higher intelligence will face paranoia and self-loathing due to the uncontrollably strong abilitiy to see connections, ie: SENSE CAUSALITY.
<br>




I'd like to say I can confirm one of your conclusions(IQ being around 135). I never get scared of anything during a trip;(I had my first trip in Amsterdams red light district at night)people I don't know don't bother me, I always feel in control of the situation and I certainly haven't seen any demonic stuff. However, I can get into a pretty emotional strugle every now and then. Most of the times it is triggered by the reason you mentioned; words that are said or reactions of my friends on my behavior that I notice race through my brain and activate all kind of my everyday problems. But it's never became a bad trip cause I usually tell myself it doesn't matter how I feel now, but how everything is gonna be in the long run. I have no clue what the hell it means but it helps.


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InvisibleFantod
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: oblivia]
    #5346297 - 02/27/06 07:25 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I love this thread and that it got resurrected (again)!

Being one of those people with a statistically high IQ (I'm in the "Nobel" category) and a life-long interest in types of intelligence, theories of mind/consciousness/cognition/perception, etc., here's my two cents.

I tend to agree with all those who posit the importance of set + setting - I include mindset within the overall category of "set."  I try to avoid linguistic value judgements like smarter/dumber, but it's hard because we literally don't have language for describing concepts free of such judgements in English.  Anywho, I also tend to agree that IQ (shorthand for abstract thinking and logical reasoning) is, if not irrelevant, then certainly of far less importance in determining whether one has a "good" or "bad" trip.  Especially given that value judgements like good/bad are at least as subjective as intelligence - one person's bad trip is another's profound learning experience.

If we accept that everything is a creation of mind: good/bad, thoughts, feelings, reality, the world around us, the language we use to quantify it, etc., then I think it's more accurate to suggest that those who have a more refined set of abstract reasoning skills may tend to notice/revel in/dwell on/obsess about/emphasize the mental aspects of a trip.  Or, to put it another way, I suspect that Leary, Ram Dass, McKenna, et al were essentially correct:

Outside of set + setting, those who have a strong sense of ego but who lack the analytical tools for understanding it conceptually are more likely to have a "bad" trip when experiencing ego dissolution.
   
I experience profound depression pretty much every day & definitely every time I trip, but I don't consider it bad.  On the contrary, I find my sadness far less painful in the context of tripping.  With my rational mind I believe that what society labels depression is a sane response to an insane, unjust world, but when I'm tripping I know it with my whole being, not simply logically.

In about twenty years of ingesting mind-altering substances, I've had one trip that I would consider "bad," while on mushrooms - for about three hours I heard a loud, high-pitched whine, saw an uncomfortably bright blue light (eyes open or closed), and felt so cold I couldn't stop shaking :sad:.  I got into bed (luckily I was at home) under every blanket I could find, whimpered a lot and repeated, "I will learn from this," over and over until I fell asleep for half an hour.  When I woke up, I had the best visuals I've ever had on mushrooms and was profoundly grateful :mushroom2:.  All in all, not really so "bad".

At any rate, I prefer to think in terms of tendencies (a la Robert Anton Wilson), rather than absolutes & value judgements, and I apologize for such a long post.


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OfflineJeroen198
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5346360 - 02/27/06 07:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Misspelling intelligence is not a very smart move. Especially when you're posting a thread to discuss it. Way to go..


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Invisiblekake
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Jeroen198]
    #5346632 - 02/27/06 08:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think intelligent people might get more out of their trips than lesser intelligent. Terence McKenna said that lesser intelligent people are likely less capable of paying attention to the underlying meaning behind the "show" of hallucinations and transfusing the hallucinations into an innate meaning. He also said that trips can be more challenging for more intelligent people because they tend to know that a hallucination is as real as anything...what you see might not be there, but that doesn't mean its not happening in one form or another. What we consider reality is just our perception of a very small % of what actually comprises true reality. He says that lesser intelligent people tend to brush these experiences off as just being 'fucked up' like others have said, just a 'trip' that wasn't actually real.


In my experience, its always the less intelligent people who have one bad trip and never want to do it again. I think this says that they never got much from the good trips to begin with other than some recreational fun. I don't think this predisposes them to bad trips, but they may certainly be less likely to handle a bad trip objectively.


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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OfflineGrapefruity
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: kake]
    #5346671 - 02/27/06 09:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i dont know man...some of the less intelligent people are most less likely to badtrip, When losing control I say. They just end up lookin at everythin with a dazed look, or layin on the ground, playin with the bunny. Some of them, their games just come apart and they dont realize it.

Now some of the intelligents, on their first times, who analyze and all and think they are so wise and thats its a tool, could find out its completely useless peaking on a solid dose of lsd! They will be like tryin to understand what the fuck is goin on, put thoughts on it, like they do in their life, but they cant! And the effect just having an introspective thought on a good dose, can be extreme! And they keep introspection on the fact that their ego is slipping away, and they like their intelligence and control on their world so they dont want to go...The 6 sure turned out to be a 9 for me!

I was like im wise what the fuck could happen...Ha ha.

inteligence can be a great tool to find the way, but thibkin bout yourself or anythin really deep but rational can make you miss the bus, and you get stuck in the point of no return. And I hate that.


Edited by Grapefruity (02/27/06 11:23 PM)


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OfflineBamaman
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #5346882 - 02/27/06 09:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mycocitizen said:
Do you think that people of higher or lower intellegence are more likely to have a bad trip? I personally think that smarter people are less likely to have bad trips. I consider myself to be a relatively smart person, and do not see how it is possible to have a bad trip. No matter what happens while I am under the influence, whether I am seeing amazingly beautiful patterns or surrounded by disturbing images, I just laugh it off because I know what is happening and why. So do any of you think that the possibility of having bad trips is at all influenced by your level of intellegence?




Huh?

{Sorry, I couldn't help the irony.}


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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Bamaman]
    #5346960 - 02/27/06 10:07 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I dont think IQ has anything to do with it - but the willingness to let go, accept the expierence, and have fun with it.

I'd like to think I'm a fairly smart person - and I find at times I get 'stuck' in the trap of over-analyizing my trip and trying to figure out how / why it works, how the visuals are forming, what aspects trigger what effects in my trip / etc.

Which now and then can be fusturating, as I think "OMG, I get it......" and then things will go crazy and disprove the theory I'd been working on in my head for the last hour :smile:

All in all, it's still good fun - but I dont think IQ or brains has anything to do with 'bad trip vs good trip'.


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Offlinechris92346
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #5347005 - 02/27/06 10:20 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Roger_irrelevant said:
<br>"Hay maaaan that chair looks so cool in all it's wickeryness and stuff, kinda like aaaabstract!"</font> " Huxley! I told you to shut the fuck up and enjoy that Mescalin!"</font>




ROFL something very funny about the phrase Huxley shut the fuck up! LOL


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OfflineGrapefruity
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: chris92346]
    #5349154 - 02/28/06 02:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

hehe intelligence...it kinda is hard to determine...But some people I see in society, it kinda sux. Some they intellectualize so much and when you start talking biefly but right to the poit and not intellectualizing like crazy. in their head its clear you arent as bright as them, and they wont even consider what you say :p

A friend of mine, you find a good point that refutates his, that makes him start intelectualizing even more, very agressvely, and you laugh in your beard :p

But a previous poster gave a good point. Its not about intelligence, its about will. And attachment to yourself, to the extreme, egocentricity.... But the intelligent ones are often more self conscious, as it was in evolution, and have great control on themselves...So in a good solid trip they might cling to their ego and that can be bad or good. Often for a first timer its bad though. I dont define a badtrip like seeing stuff that scare you...Its accute fear, panic about going crazy or dying. Or as intense as someone involved in a plane crashing seeing the worst coming, just that you know you will end up alive though. Its painful . It is often torture.

I think every body need an experience when they will fight to be, and they kinda freak out...when everything calms down, it is the best trip ever. It is like you had your lecture now your mom softens, says that she loves you and hugs you. You survived the crash, after all.


Edited by Grapefruity (02/28/06 04:00 PM)


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OfflineKaleidoscope
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Grapefruity]
    #5349251 - 02/28/06 02:50 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Now that I think about it I think it's really not about IQ at all. It's about common sense and understanding the drug. If a person, no matter how intelligent reads up about the experience and understands what it's about to some degree he or she is much less likely to have a bad trip. The smartest person in the world could have a bad trip if he or she did no research and had no understanding of the effects. the same applies to the dumbest person in the world.


--------------------

Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.


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