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OfflineDEnoG
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Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 47
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #523047 - 01/16/02 11:59 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

i think a person's general state of mind has everything to do with whether or not they have a bad trip. a happy idiot would probably have a better trip than a depressed genius. if your generally happy then you'll usually have a good time. I do think that people of higher intelligence tend to get more out of their trips though. that also goes for individuals that are spiritually inclined.

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #523073 - 01/17/02 12:45 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

lol... yea uhh, i was just testin yah :-/


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...

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InvisibleAzulAgave
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Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 170
Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: gnrm23]
    #523169 - 01/17/02 03:25 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with GNR. -sometimes you just have to let go- shrooming can be for enlightenment and it also makes for a damn good time. In my opinion when I have to act all prim and proper in normal life shrooming makes for a great release. Just let let go and fucking party like a rock star. And let the normal people try to figure out what the magic is.

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OfflineUrQuattro
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Registered: 02/02/01
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: AzulAgave]
    #523175 - 01/17/02 03:50 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

lets look at it this way.

Lets suppose that it is true that psychedelics change one's perception about reality. Let's also suppose that psychedelics affect one's ability to reason intuitively, often times enhancing intuition beyond sober levels, but at the same time, disintegrates the ego, so normal judgement and thought filters about particular issues disappear.

Let us also assume that a person who is a "genius" also has more intuitive reasoning ability than someone who is "stupid" (ex. not many 'stupid people' could ever make the intuitive leap that einstein did to come up with relativity).

Ok, let us also assume that mushrooms affect our brains in generally teh same way.

Let us also assume that consciousness receives informationabout reality through this brain.

So, with those last two assumptions, you have the basis to argue that those who already posess a "larger" base of awareness, or more intelligence, will make more connections between seemingly unrelated phenomina compared to those of lesser ability.

Ok, so, lets just put a number on this for argument's sake, in terms of IQ (IQ in this case meaning analytical reasoning/logic/intuitive reasoning/spacial reasoning), because it is the industry standard format for measuring "intelligence. So, just for argument's sake, lets say that 2.5 grams of cubensis increases iq temporarily for a difference of lets say 20 pts. (this is just arbitrary, just look at the analogy im trying to make here, this is just a concept in my head, so i cant put it directly into language.)

So, given that the 'average' level of intelligence is 100 (yes, i know its now somewhere around 114), if you add 20 to that, you get 120 pts. Now, that's pretty smart. I read once that the average iq of doctors is around 120-125 pts.

Now, lets take a genius. Lets take someone who consistently scores around 140 on the iq test. They are brilliant and already posess more ability to see intuitive connections, while sober, than the average person does while tripping. Of ocurse, this assumes that the genius is actually using his abilities, but let's assume that so i dont have to psychoanalyze him. When taking his dose, he gets bumped up to an incredible 160.

Now, 120 vs. 160 is an incredible difference in intelligence level.

Now, given that psychedelics tend to make one think, or even increase the speed of thought, and given that greater intelligence GENERALLY leads to greater awareness of reality, self, and society (assuming potential use here, again), while at the same time giving the user a greater ability to make creative, intuitive connections, it is easy to see that a person who is "smarter" will be able to make more connections.

Now, cant assume anything about psychology, but those who are gifted intelligence-wise tend to be more depressed, so that would tend to lead to the thought that they would have more bad trips.

But at the same time, those of average intelligence might become overwhelmed at the flood of new information that simplly wont be able to be integrated into normal consciousness. So, perhaps they would have more bad trips.

Now, what about the thought that not all bad trips are the same.

There seem to be two major categories: primal fear and paranoia/self loathing.

I contend that those of lower intelligence will have more of a primal reaction and those of a higher intelligence will face paranoia and self-loathing due to the uncontrollably strong abilitiy to see connections, ie: SENSE CAUSALITY.

So, in the end, i dont know. I think that intelligent people will ultimately be able to learn more, but average people will still be able to benefit, just not in the same way.

I could keep going, but this is long, lemme know what you think and if you want me to expand on anything.


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True wisdom is the knowledge that nothing is impossible except for absolute knowledge.

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523282 - 01/17/02 07:14 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I think that people who have to talk about their experiences in such a way as to suggest that they have some inate quality that makes their experiences somehow more legitimate and profound misses the entire point of the psychedelic experience. The 'im so smart i cant get bad trips' idea is so sad that its funny - its like 'im get some much more out of my trips than everyone else - and i need to brag about it' and that is nearly always the kind of person with an ego-centric mind-view that DO have bad trips and are NOT fun to be around


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523353 - 01/17/02 08:36 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

If I read your post correctly, it looks like you are trying to say (in part) that level of intelligence does not really have an effect on the possibility of a bad trip (at least not directly, anyway). This is the theory that I supscribe to.

Ok, and I have to say that your idea about why bad trips happen and what the different causes could be for someone who is "intelligent" as opposed to someone who isn't is an extremely good theory. I like it. Nice reasoning :-)


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineUrQuattro
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Registered: 02/02/01
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #523785 - 01/17/02 07:18 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

ok, before i quote you, i never placed myself into either category.

In reply to:


I think that people who have to talk about their experiences in such a way as to suggest that they have some inate quality that makes their experiences somehow more legitimate and profound misses the entire point of the psychedelic experience. The 'im so smart i cant get bad trips' idea is so sad that its funny - its like 'im get some much more out of my trips than everyone else - and i need to brag about it' and that is nearly always the kind of person with an ego-centric mind-view that DO have bad trips and are NOT fun to be around




Look, it is a simple, measurable fact, that iq works by testing abstract reasoning, and the ability to make connections that otherwise wouldnt seem apparent.

So, wouldnt the logical progression of that then integrate the psychedelic experience, which does the same thing?

And if so, wouldnt that then mean that those who are higher in what we call "IQ" going to have different types of trips and different types of bad trips than those who are lower in the 'iq' dept>

Keep in mind that in tribal times, only a small number,if only one, of the tribe would have access to these chemicals.

Lesser intelligence in the abstract, doesnt meanthat they have less intelligence in the concrete. And it works the other way around. IQ is specifically designed to test abstract intelligence.

It is known that those with higher iq's will see more connections and see more patterns, theywill make thoseconnections and recognized them. Tehrefore, genius level people who take psychedelics have the possibility of making connections that otherwise dont mean ANYTHING, and end up dwelling on a negative concept that means nothing in the end. But that iswhere i said personality comes in.

Its not about ego-centrism. It is about detachedly analyzing consciuosness and its interaction with these substances.

I also NEVER NEVER stated that the intelligent one would gain MORE from their trip than the average person, i just said that they would learn an overall greater amount, abstractly, but proportionately, it would be the same.

I just find that people of higher intelligence tend to see more implications in every thought, touch and hallucination they have. Instead of being COMPLETELY convinced that it is just a drug, and what they are seeing is unreal because it is a drug, the more intelligent can sense that the drug is interacting with consciousness by temporarily changing the biological filter which feeds it, so that there isnt necessarily a false reality created, but one which exists, but is filtered by our unconscious mind and our biological brains.

I hope im making sense


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True wisdom is the knowledge that nothing is impossible except for absolute knowledge.

Edited by UrQuattro (01/17/02 07:35 PM)

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523908 - 01/17/02 09:42 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

sorry - my reply wasnt intended as one to you


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Offlinedegenerate_
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Registered: 01/18/02
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DEnoG]
    #524763 - 01/18/02 04:22 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

maybe some to do with experience, setting, but 70% of it has got to be ur beliefs. doubt is one of the biggest factors in having a bad trip. doesn't matter how smart u are, if u don't have confidence or conviction, that's what'll fuck you.
i'd even say that 'intelligence' can increase the risk - usually the more you think, the more doubts u have about reality and the more cynical you become.

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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: degenerate_]
    #527422 - 01/21/02 02:58 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I've noticed that too... stupid people take psychedelics simply to get really fucked up (at least where I live) while me, my brother, and some friends become very enlightened while tripping and it doesn't really bother us at all if we don't get that many visuals. I first got interested in psychedelics for the visuals, but now I use it for purely for religious reasons, and to learn more about myself/other people etc. Just the other night I was tripping on six hits of LSD and my visuals were slim to none, but the trip itself was one of the most profound ones I've yet to experience.

~zahid


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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #527994 - 01/22/02 07:00 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I think having a bad trip has to do a lot with the envirment were you do it, I once did it in New Yok city in an apartment, and I thoght I went to hell, I came out ok because of my self control, since then I only do it in Nature and I never had a bad trip


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OfflineTannis
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Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #528065 - 01/22/02 09:18 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I think that a good or bad trip is dependant on your focus at the time you dose... I've traced my "bad" trips back to something in the back of my mind (the unconscious) that I didn't realize was "bugging" me when I dosed. My good trips are ones where I anticipated tripping for days before I took the dose... ...Tannis

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Offlinemelic
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Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 85
Loc: fin
Last seen: 19 years, 10 days
Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: UrQuattro]
    #562877 - 02/25/02 05:52 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

hey, UrQuattro, good points in your posts, nice ideas.
anyhow..
I've seen some people I consider borderline genius have bad trips. So I dont think that's got too much to do with a trip going wrong.
However I do think that 'smart' people often find deeper meaning in their trips then 'dumb' people.

Easy to test I suppose, ask ppl that seem to come out of trips with deeply spiritual and enlightening reports to do IQ test, do they score above 120?  :smile:

Ah nevermind, wouldn't work anyways, never seen an IQ test on the internet that was bogus (if you know of one, lemme know).


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    Look at that bunch over there man, They've spotted us !

Melic  :tongue:

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OfflineGlacius
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #565475 - 02/28/02 03:08 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

A good idea. I think it might be a little related, but the main thing is controlling yourself. there are many factors involved with being able to control oneself, and I am sure one of them would be intellegence. I consider myself quite intellegent, and also never come close to a bad trip, but there is a bigger picture to say the least. Being depressed may induce a bad trip, or even being in a bad state of mind during the voyage. Even smart people can have a hard time remembering why this is happening and that"it's just the drug". A bad trip can happen to everyone because no matter how smart we are, we are still human, and ther are times when we will simply be not in control, or deceived, or etc. I think it has more to do with confidence, and the ability to convince yourself that it's ok, and being smart is probably the first step in doing so.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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OfflineGlacius
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #565478 - 02/28/02 03:16 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Damn I didn't read the whole thing. DMXhead,what a good point!! smarter people can simply understand there trip better, because they have the means too. I hate trying to explain my wonderful journeys drifting through levels of concuoisness, and my understanding of my trips and all that and then hearing
"ya, ok but what did you see??!!" Shutup ya dumbass, I'm trying to explain my thoery on the relationship between society and myself, and my veiws on society and what my trip has tought me about myself and you want to know what I saw?? Dipshit!!!! To shut them up I say"a tree talked to me", and it usually satisfies there little minds, so they will shut up, and let me explain.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
War's boring,change thechannel!

Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 668
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: Glacius]
    #565960 - 02/28/02 02:49 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Hay wait up! I'm stupid and have only ever had one bad trip out of the many years of psychedelic usage, i would do the math but as I said...
"Hay maaaan that chair looks so cool in all it's wickeryness and stuff, kinda like aaaabstract!" " Huxley! I told you to shut the fuck up and enjoy that Mescalin!"


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We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams...

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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #623411 - 04/30/02 04:49 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I was doing some searching and just wanted to add something from my experience. I consider myself a smart person and have experienced a horrifying bad trip. I was in a very comfortable set and setting. At my friend's house with no one else but me and two friends and no obligations at all. I had experienced a minute bad trip before that, and after mentally warding it off, I thought (just like the naive people I see here), that I could never have another bad trip(or "I don't see how I could ever had a bad trip....It'll never happen to me"). I thought that everything that I would ever encounter, could be controlled by my mind. This is not true. After smoking massive amounts of cannabis on a relatively large dose of LSD, something happened that blew my mind and I never thought it was possible. My head opened up and I could feel something along the lines of an evil rollercoaster flying through one ear and out the other. It continued a bunch of times and it scared the living shit out of me...and unfortunately I could not stop the feeling..."Oh its only the acid, I'll be fine." But the terrifying feeling would not stop and after a while it drove me to the point where I swore I was insane. I could feel my brain and then my body and organs grinding around and shifting up and down. It truly was beyond my control. My advice is...please be careful, yet do not fear psychedelics. They have very much to show to you, but never ever underestimate their awesome power. Just realize you'll always sober up, and enjoy it while the magic is still there...you'll miss it when it's gone. Happy Trails everyone.


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need that cash to feed them jones.

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Offlinegrowin
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: mycocitizen]
    #626747 - 05/11/02 10:38 AM (21 years, 11 months ago)

i think EQ (emotinal quantity) has more to do in a bad-good trip - more than IQ.
if you feel bad, fastrated or anixy the more eq you'll know how you feel why and what to do to make you feel better.
its all in awarness, not intelegence.

a growin original

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Offlinehappycamper
fresh on thescene
Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 48
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #815613 - 08/13/02 04:16 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I totally agree with DXMHEAD - Tripping with people who just do it to get fucked up is real annoying. Just the other day I ate some fresh shrooms with a friend and two of his friends. I had to ask him to take me home like an hour after I ate them cuz they were just all like "man i am fucked up!!" really loud and I wasn't enjoying it at all. I went home and watched tv with my parents and had a better time.


I really think you can sense how philosophical people are about eating shrooms by just the music they listen to. Personally I can't listen to anything other than Bob Marley, Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia or Pink Floyd. It really annoys me when someone im tripping with puts in some mainstream music cuz it really just destroys my trip.


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"If you want to improve be content to be thought foolish & stupid." -quote from some movie

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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Re: intellegence and tripping [Re: DXMHEAD420]
    #815753 - 08/13/02 05:19 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Like most everyone else here, I'm gonna agree with DXMhead. Nothing is more annoying to me then when someone sais ' man, I am SO fucked up' while tripping. Generally those kinds of people are on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum from what I've experienced.

I too got into psychadelics for the visuals at first, but after my first mushroom trip I realised that they were much more then just a visual trip. I enjoyed my mind much more then 'watching things move and melt'. Seeing things is great, but it only last a short time for me before I start getting lost in my head.

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