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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Psychedelics, Meditation and Psychosis?
    #14471913 -

Hey guys, I would like just discuss the possible causes of psychosis.
Before we start, I'd like for you guys to read up on the correlations between meditation and psychosis, here are two links:

http://scienceofinsanity.blogspot.com/2008/02/meditation-and-psychosis.html

http://www.openbuddha.com/2002/09/06/the-dangers-of-mediation/

As we may all know, the only possible negative side effects from psychedelics use is that it may trigger psychosis, given that the person was already pre-disposed to it.

What is the cause of Psychosis? Some studies blame it on genetics, unbalanced levels of neurotransmitters, pre-natal circumstances, bad childhood (for example trauma, abuse, violence etc.) or urbanicity.

However the one that stood out to me the most was the level of neurotransmitters. As we all know, when we induce any psychoactive drugs, the way the neurotransmitters act or the production of neurotransmitters in our brain changes. Some studies have shown that there is a correlation between high levels of neurotransmitters (i think it was dopamine) and schizophrenia, i think that most a-typical anti-psychotic medicine are there to level or neutralize the level of neurotransmitters in the brain thereby reducing the symptoms of psychosis or schizophrenia.

What interests me the most is that LSD and meditation are very much alike, by that I mean the way it puts you through another reality, an altered state of consciousness. My theory is that when you meditate or dream, certain chemicals are released in the brain and that when you take psychedelic drugs, you are putting in the same or similar chemicals into your brain and hence you are in that altered state of consciousness. The only difference is that you are awake (eyes wide opened) to see what is actually going on, hence you are tripping :smile:

Assuming that you've visited the two links i provided you and read the articles, we now know that meditation and psychedelic drugs can trigger psychosis. If what i was saying is true, then doesn't it mean psychedelics are completely harmless? I mean if one was vulnerable to psychosis, then if he or she had meditated he or she would trigger an episode, depending on how intense the meditation was. Since we're on the topic of psychosis triggers, another possible trigger could be a life changing experience such as trauma, marriage or death of a loved one etc. What I've learn so far is that when you exercise, you put a lot of shock and strain on your body and your body copes with this by producing endorphins (I think it was), which is another neurotransmitter to help your body deal with the exercise, this is why you feel so good after a work out :laugh:
Anyways back to my point, perhaps when a person that is vulnerable to psychosis experience something "full-on", the body tries to cope with it by releasing these neurotransmitters, and by high levels of neurotransmitters, could it possible trigger psychosis?
If so then psychedelics such as LSD, DMT and magic mushrooms would be considered almost completely harmless. Well of course you would need to consider how mentally prepared or strong the person is and other factors. What I'm saying is that at the end of the day, psychedelics could just be another trigger like meditation or a life-changing experience!

Whatever I just wrote is based entirely on what I know about psychosis, psychedelics and meditation. Correct me if I am wrong :smile:

What are your thoughts on the topic guys? This one seems to intrigue me quite a bit.


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Re: Psychedelics, Meditation and Psychosis? [Re: cuongtbh]
    #14472460 -

It is a very interesting topic, and one that I have a personal interest in.

I am a lifelong meditator, a long time psychadelic user (less lately but still) and I have been hospitilized with psychosis. It was a short episode and very fascinating and bizarre experience for me, like dreaming while awake, or tripping while sober, but different from either.

I recovered quickly and without medication and have been "normal" for many months since.

Another factor is marijuana. Recent studies are suggesting that marijuana use increases the likelihood of being diagnosed with psychosis later in life.

When psychosis is induced by meditation, drug use, lack of sleep, stress or trauma, I question whether it should even be diagnosed as psychosis at all. After all , it is completely normal to think and act strangely as a result of sleep deprivation,a mystic experience, drugs or trauma, and not in any sense an indication of mental illness.

When we experience intense things like the loss of a loved one, a near death experience, the end of a long relationship or an insane psychadelic trip, it is only to be expected that we "go crazy for a while"

Personally I disagree with the knee-jerk response of psychiatrists such as the one that put me on anti-psychotics right away. I feel that if I had just been given a few days to sober up, rest and calm down I would have recovered faster without the medications.

Also the medications cause dangerous withdrawal when taken away suddently and can actually TRIGGER pscyosis when you stop taking them. SO they complicated rather than speeding up my recovery.

:alientransform:

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Re: Psychedelics, Meditation and Psychosis? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14474598 -

I think it is interesting and admirable that you could ask for help
and then as expected you healed yourself - you may not have needed help except to reorient and
extricate yourself from unfamiliar territory.
jarringly intense mentalscapes can ensue from any of the actions that cause mental state changes.
i.e. as it goes from gaseous to liquid and (horror of horrors) to solid.
you may not like to think of mind as an element with state
but that is what we are playing with here with meditative absorption, emotion, or psychedelic drugs.
the strongest doses cause a solidification of moments layered up on top of eachother.
milder and the lingering moment of experience overlap in fluid trails.
milder still and the layers are a pleasant gaseous enhancement;
and none at all the fog is gone so to speak and the air is clear.

resisting stiffly oppositional mental objects in the stream of consciousness is the essence of psychosis.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Psychedelics, Meditation and Psychosis? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14478508 -

I know the guy in the Article does not understand but why do you think some of us become teachers??

Meditation is real and there are real dangers as well as real benefits.

There are many levels and it is important to have a good instructor who is aware of such things and in his experience can guide you through the stages you will progress through.

Many people suffer from unbalance in their lives I think the Chinese understood this better than Americans do and labeling everything as psychosis makes people seem crazy.

That being said ever seen the movie In the Mouth of Madness by John Carpenter?

Who says we all don't have some forms of mental illness? Or even for short periods?

My tai-qi is all about balance?! We say that everyone is unbalanced for one reason or another (ever heard Tai-Chi called stress relief?) if Meditation is stress inducing then so be it. The first step to Alcoholism is admitting you have a problem, sometimes the mind needs to be slapped,disturbed,unbalanced before it can even become aware that it is in this state of unease.

The ability of a great teacher is not always in his martial skill. But in his ability to safely and comfortably guide a person through their own body and mind which for some people can be quite scary.

I have seen people scream,cry,laugh,etc. during meditation sessions. There is also a part of Shaolin where we want to start the training young so you do not build up years of negative programming .

I have personally helped people of all ages from 11-90 experience the REAL benefits and the major reason I have stayed a teacher through the years is people CAN be healed of ALL disease and IMHO people NEED good teachers because people NEED to be healed and Qi-Gong and Meditation (breathing-exercise) has the power to do this where it seems OBVIOUS to me that Western Medicine lacks the ability to do this for many illness...

It is my opinion thats because Western Medicine does not believe in the Soul. These are problems that Medicine cannot fix. Only a true integrative practice like the hard work of Kung Fu a Spiritual exercise for Spiritual problems.


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The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.
      J. B. S. Haldane

The quest of the absolute leads into the four-dimensional world.
Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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