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Quoiyaien
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Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! UPDATE: First experiment completed, report up
#5731749 - 06/09/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi, I am writing an essay and basically the focus is going to be on Psychedelic spirituality and any possible relevance between the two. What I am looking for is anything you would like to share about your experience of using psychedelics for the purpose of mind expansion, enlightenment, and practice. I don't need specific instances, more along the lines of retrospectives and how it ties into your life as a whole. Anything you write will be kept completely anonymous unless you wish credit, in which case we can swap personal information via PM.
The main reason for this is because everything I have ever read on psychedelics and spirituality involves the main debate of psychedelics vs. meditation or some other method. Never have I read anything linking the two together as a conjunctive method (aside from shamanism). People use psychedelics, see the path, then follow it drug free. That seems to be the traditional view of the entheogenic turn-on.
Right now I am working on getting the outline put together, and basically just looking for some suggestions on what to include and what areas to cover, hence the personal experiences. I have read Zig Zag Zen, and while interesting, it hardly mentions using them ON the path.
The area that I wish to mostly address, is the topic regarding "coming down" and returning to your former habits and conditioning. Do you forget all the lessons learned? Or do they continue to play a role in your day to day life? The one I like is learning how to let go. I find that during an LSD session, I learn new subtleties about relaxing the mind so as to allow a greater opening of attention during meditation. Sure, the experience of enlightenment itself during a trip is always helpful to put things into perspective, but that always fades as the drug effects wear off. The most valuable stuff I learn while high, is not the what, its the how. "How can I take what I learn here, and actually apply it to the pursuit of enlightenment?"
Its mostly going to be a personal account, but due to the intended length, I would like to throw in bits and pieces for support and argument. I am also going to be conducting experiments in regards to psychedelic meditation. I plan on taking LSD and then sitting zazen for a full 24 hours to see the whole process unfold. After which, I am going to sit a private week-long retreat taking LSD once at the very beginning, then following Zen Sesshin (period of intensive practice) rules for the duration of the week. Then I am going to sit the same duration of time, without LSD. I want to see exactly how LSD can benefit practice, if at all, for me. I understand that following such a strict regimen of meditation is very life changing in of itself, but I want to see the value of adding psychedelics to the equation. I am going to write about the experience in detail, and it will form a portion of the essay.
I think that about covers it. Any suggestions for the format, contents, or other aspects I may have overlooked would be greatly appreciated. Thanks 
Peace 
Edited by Quoiyaien (06/30/06 10:32 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5731777 - 06/09/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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there is a focus and attention on the boddy that is letting go and unfolding at the same time. often this is triggered.
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leery11
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5731786 - 06/09/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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friend do please update us about your meditation experiments.
this is the kind of stuff i'm trying to figure out right now, i've never gone fully psychedelic even.....!
you are going to dose LSD and sit zen for 24 hours not moving at all? Or do you mean spend 24 hours with zen as the focus? I would think you'd need to pee and get up and do walking meditation at least..... what about sleep?
and this Zen retreat is it lead by Buddhist monks or nuns? What do they say to you about drugs, or have you asked them? I have been going to Zen classes at a temple but had to miss the past 2 weeks.
is LSD chosen for a reason compared to other substances?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Penguarky Tunguin
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: redgreenvines]
#5731822 - 06/09/06 07:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm of the opinion (you briefly mentioned it) that psychedelics are a shortcut to seeking whatever kind of enlightenment you were entitled to under the psychedelic state. Now, a lot of people will say that taking the shortcut is never the way to do anything. I always think of the HOV lanes as an analogy. If you've got more than one person in the vehicle (meaning more than just your mind) you're rewarded by going through the shorter, less traffic-filled lanes. You still get put back on the same highway eventually as the HOV lane ends. But youāre ride there was better? Iām not sure. You were just given that option of entering the HOV land and you took it. I have tripped many times and seen some things that Iām only beginning to feel like writing them down. My vocabulary isnāt where I want it to be. Iām not sure I have that many psychedelic trips left in my life. When I trip now, the trip is very dark, challenging and a lot of work. Itās not fun in anyway, anymore. I havenāt tripped in more than six months and am anxiously awaiting my next one which will be in a month or so.
Psychedelics have shown me whatās out there, whatās next after this life and although they might have been brief, overwhelming and beautiful, I think that Iām now willing to do the work to achieve these states without the use of the fungi allies. I know the beginning stages of ego-loss and can achieve those sometimes by silent meditation focusing on just the sounds of the environment. I try and listen to all sounds at once until I just hear a symphony of sounds. The Universe is always creating the most beautiful symphonies and most of us never take the time to listen to them or donāt even realize it is in fact, a symphony.
I have no idea if that helpedā¦but there you go.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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Quoiyaien
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: leery11]
#5731845 - 06/09/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: friend do please update us about your meditation experiments.
this is the kind of stuff i'm trying to figure out right now, i've never gone fully psychedelic even.....!
you are going to dose LSD and sit zen for 24 hours not moving at all? Or do you mean spend 24 hours with zen as the focus? I would think you'd need to pee and get up and do walking meditation at least..... what about sleep?
Ok I should clarify this. 30 minutes zazen, 10 minutes kinhin (walking meditation) repeated for 24 hours. Bathroom breaks happen during kinhin if needed, no food, no sleep until done.
Quote:
and this Zen retreat is it lead by Buddhist monks or nuns? What do they say to you about drugs, or have you asked them? I have been going to Zen classes at a temple but had to miss the past 2 weeks.
I have chosen to conduct this experiment in private, as my teacher would know something was up, and you know the buddhist belief about altering consciousness. My teacher knows about my drug use, as I have to send a report to the monastery everytime I get high. They dont agree with it there, but as I havent taken any vows yet, there is no problem. I can only move to the next level of training once I cease use.
Quote:
is LSD chosen for a reason compared to other substances?
Simply because I have 500 hits layin around Plus it seems to be the one that I have naturally gravitated towards. I may try the 24 hour thing with other subtances from my stash such as ayahuasca or peyote, and perhaps mushrooms if they present themselves to me.
Peace 
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OmEgAx1
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5732045 - 06/09/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heres the main thing you should be looking up that could possibly be the catalyst of your paper...
The fact that spirituality arose through the use of psychedelic plants in ancient history and their regular and spiritual use is thought to of possibly influenced the evolution of human conciousness in the primitive era of mankind
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leery11
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5732120 - 06/09/06 08:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quoiyaien said:
Simply because I have 500 hits layin around Plus it seems to be the one that I have naturally gravitated towards. I may try the 24 hour thing with other subtances from my stash such as ayahuasca or peyote, and perhaps mushrooms if they present themselves to me.
Peace 
very interesting... where did you get peyote from... or do you live somewhere it is legal?
very interesting about the abundance of acid too 
even lay people aren't supposed to take drugs if they follow Buddhism..... I'm not sure if lay people have to formally accept the precepts or what, but it seemed like jsut people with a common interest shouldn't do drugs either...
am I not understanding correctly? One fellow at the first class I went to had a very teary and "up there" acidified look in his eyes..... like he had seen humbling things.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Quoiyaien
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: leery11]
#5732305 - 06/09/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
very interesting... where did you get peyote from... or do you live somewhere it is legal?
I live in Canada. Though I had it sent to me from a close personal friend down south.
Quote:
very interesting about the abundance of acid too 

Quote:
even lay people aren't supposed to take drugs if they follow Buddhism..... I'm not sure if lay people have to formally accept the precepts or what, but it seemed like just people with a common interest shouldn't do drugs either...
Perhaps if they follow Buddhism. I do not follow anything, I simply practice Zen. I also practice guitar.
Regarding drugs, I have no attachment either way. I use them because I see value in the teachings they provide as nothing beats direct experience. Though when the time comes to give them up, I will do so without a second thought. Fortunately, I can still receive teachings from the monastery even if I use drugs. However, I cannot move to the next level of enrollment until I am drug-free. So I have to decide, monastic teaching or psychedelic experience.
I think that this essay will help to clarify the issue somewhat. Plus it will provide another perspective for those facing a similar predicament.
Peace 
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Quoiyaien
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: OmEgAx1]
#5732340 - 06/09/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OmEgAx1 said: Heres the main thing you should be looking up that could possibly be the catalyst of your paper...
The fact that spirituality arose through the use of psychedelic plants in ancient history and their regular and spiritual use is thought to of possibly influenced the evolution of human conciousness in the primitive era of mankind
That is definitely worth mentioning. Thanks for reminding me of that fact. 
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fireworks_god
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5736053 - 06/10/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quoiyaien said: So I have to decide, monastic teaching or psychedelic experience.
Jesus Christ, you sill haven't made your decision?! 
Get it over with and send me the rest of your acid.... seriously... at least a little bit...

Seriously, though, gimme gimme gimme! 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MasFina
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5736919 - 06/11/06 02:01 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I hope you get back to us on this after your experience. I am very interested in this as well.
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Icelus
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: MasFina]
#5737234 - 06/11/06 05:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Very interesting! Can't wait to hear about the results after your experiment is finished. Since a few months i'm practicing zen too, that's why i'm so interested
-------------------- You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Icelus]
#5737306 - 06/11/06 07:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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what is sought by the seeker is not a state but a process in change, way. though psychedelic exposes many things, that are insightful, the insights are not the path (changing), and the psychedelic is a state (which is not as flexible a dynaic as the enlightened mind). enlightened mind is liberated - as adapted to the mundane state as it is to the supramundane. nothing is a shortcut to the effort that provides that.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5737417 - 06/11/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can tell you up front that the energy released from LSD will help keep your back and neck straight, help to maintain concentration, and be analgesic with regard to the pain from long sitting. You may discover the discomfort of energies filling the anal-genital center and the navel center (which we ordinarily move up with a couple of Hatha Yoga asanas, but you might be able to use Bastrika or Kapalabati breathing techniques, if you know some Yoga).
Some of the personality idiosyncracies are really just annoyances when one has created a notion of what a 'perfect' personality 'ought' to be like. Ram Dass called them 'schmoes' eventually where earlier in his life they seemed like gross impurities. I use to be sad upon coming down (just like Ram Dass reported in the preface to BE HERE NOW, which if you're not familiar with you'd be doing yourself the biggest favor by obtaining a copy). As I matured, I came to understand that the highest states of trance, while pristine and radiantly ecstatic, are also very rarified - like standing at the top of a snow-capped mountain. The space is also sterile and human life can not live long at such 'altitudes.' One must make a "Descent Toward Realization" following the 'Ascent Toward Unification." This is, symbolically the Head Center and the Heart Center respectively - the Tibetan seed syllables OM and HUM, respectively.
One needs to voluntarily complete the ascension with a descent, and bring the Light from On High into the Center of one's HUMan life. Understanding that it is not your time to rise to the highest plane and NOT return (i.e., die) - the Upanishadic teaching of the Amrit Nadi through which the life force leaves the Heart via the crown of the Head - there need not be ANY sadness, but rather gladness !
My soul has been psychedelicized for more than 30 years. I very rarely take trips any more - just don't need or desire to. I have developed along the lines that I was shown while tripping. I became a philosopher, a lover of Wisdom and later, a Christian philosopher in that St. Paul says: "Christ the power of God, the wisdom of God" (I Corinthians 1:24) thereby equating Wisdom with the Logos. Psychedelics helped me to plumb the depths of my past to the birth trauma, to my ethnic-cultural roots, and showed me how to intuit and imagine a future state of perfection, all the while teaching me how to live in the Eternal Here and Now. The depth and height of spiritual writings I have explored in the light of the Psychedelic Experience, my morality has Compassion as its yardstick, and I remember always that this life is for Enlightenment. So, no matter what the temptations, snares and quagmires of existence are, I consider this in all that I say and do. With age, this becomes easier as the 'space' between your thoughts and desires increases. Life ceases to be a "blooming buzzing confusion" (William James) and thoughts and deeds can be more calmly considered. Any of this useful?
-------------------- γνῶθι Ļαį½ĻĻν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Schwammel
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5737563 - 06/11/06 10:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quoiyaien
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5737610 - 06/11/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks Markos, very useful indeed 
Regarding, BE HERE NOW, I have read that book. Definately great. Yet it still focuses on the coming down aspect, as if the psychedelic state was the goal in of itself. What if there are no goals? What if one uses psychedelics that same way one, say, goes to the bathroom. The sensation of emptying the bladder is not the goal, while it may be nice, it is not the end result of taking a piss. You simply no longer need to pee. A useful experience, but now a remnant of the past. It is just another cycle in the realm of human life. Also the breath, in and out, I dont dread the air leaving as it is necessary so I can begin to breathe in again. So, take LSD, go up, relieve some spiritual tension, learn some valuable life lessons, come down, and feel better, utilizing the lessons learned to fuel practice. So my point is using psychedelics to augment practice, not as a means to call oneself "enlightened... temporarily"
Peace 
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5737871 - 06/11/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Psychedelics give a glimpse. For me, it is, as Huxley called it, "Moksha Medicine" - medicine of liberation. Existence continually 'encrusts' our Essential being like barnacles encrust the hull of a ship. They slow the ship and weigh it down. Likewise impressions that unconsciously glom onto our psyches when we aren't half consciously taking in the rest of the impressions (like the trophy wives I see displaying themselves in Aventura, Florida, or the incredible looking stripper who gave my Lady a lap dance half a decade ago, or whatever one's addictions are. I don't want) objects of desire to burn into my psyche like a branding iron on the rump of a steer). I want to be free, and psychedelics can help to detach the emotional attachment we develop to the very s**t we inadvertantly step in! It affords periodic stripping of these psychic parasites and serves as a 'booster shot' to a philosophic lifestyle which is aimed at Wisdom (or as BE HERE NOW says: "Consciousness Equals Energy = Love = Awareness = Light = Wisdom = Beauty = Truth = Purity").
Inbreath/Out breath. Inspiration means being filled with spirit, which in Greek also means air (pneuma). Expiration means breathing out of air, but it also means dying. One Zen master said that death was merely an expiration that is not followed by an inspiration.
I am Enlightened...which is to say, I am more Enlightened now than I was when I began this trip. The comparison must remain within my own being as before and after. This is the only legitimate and righteous way to make an assertion of being Enlightened. Comparisons with any other being is just ego talking.
"You are all form. You are the breath. You are the river. You are the void. You are the desire to be enlightened. You are enlightened." BE HERE NOW, p. 77
-------------------- γνῶθι Ļαį½ĻĻν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Schwammel]
#5737890 - 06/11/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cool retinal tricks!
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Quoiyaien
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5764443 - 06/18/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just bumping it back up...
Thanks for all the input so far 
Peace 
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thatiAM
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality -- Input needed for essay! [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5764567 - 06/18/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is not some enlightened you waiting for yourself at the end of the enlightenment tunnel, or psychedelic expressway. Do you see how when you are tripping balls you can just be and play without the story of this 'ME'? Maybe you can just look at the pattern that sunlight makes coming into a dark room through venetian blinds and get lost in it. The 'ME' goes away, but what you really are is still here. There is no separation between you, the sunbeam, and what it feels like to watch the sunbeam. You are just being what it is to be, and 'ME' goes away.
There is not some bigger and better enlightened superman ME waiting for you, anywhere, ever. All change you see is just a role change, even if it is to a more "enlightened" role.
When you are just being without all the beliefs and judgements and expectations of ME, that is all there is to it. You just are. You are that you are. And that sunlight is still beautiful, whether you are tripping or not. The thing is, you are surrendered when you are tripping because you don't really even have the capacity to maintain this whole big of ME and how the ME would react to every situation, who it likes, who it doesn't like, what it thinks... When you come down, just don't let the ME sneak back in. Just be that you are. It is why it is so simple that it is so elusive. It is right here in front of your face, this very second and it will never go away.
Enlightenment is not a thing to be had. Realize self, be it. You can't grab hold of self. You can't know it because it transcends mind. You can only be it, so be it.
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