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Timothy Leary wasn't a great man.
    #1410431 -

Timothy Leary did what? Dwelve into understanding LSD? He was a Harvard professor until after using many students or paying them to be a guinea pig in his experiements. More n more students and many would come back and MANY students dropped out and fried their brains from the man's goal of understanding it? Fucking Harvard University! It isn't what it is today, but back then it wasn't like o yea you graduated from harvard, more like OH SHIT YOU'RE A HARVARD GRADUATE GOD DAMN YOU'RE SPECIAL. You know what I'm trying to say. He did bring about a bigger understanding of it and some philosophy, BUT FOR WHAT??? To me it seems to have costed the education and future of many of this planet's great minds and flushed them down a psychidelic drain.

That's what I think, what're your thoughts?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410457 -

good point.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410500 -

I'd like to see what Learyfan has to say about this.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410519 -

"Fried their brains"
And how do you know that?
What does that even mean?

Maybe they dropped out because they realised that The System is bullshit and they no longer wanted to be a cog in the machine (a common side effect of LSD) once they graduated school.

Or yeah, maybe they just became retarded.

Edited by dee_N_ae (03/26/03 05:03 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410562 -

tim leary, richard alpert (a.k.a. ram dass) and ralph metzner have all enriched my life so much.... i absolutely adore the way each of their lives blossomed, i don't value one over the other, think one greater or less great, i think they're all.... truly wonderful.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410571 -

Where are you learyfan?





I don't think that he was necassarily a "great" man. He was a pioneer in a way. If nothing else he earned a little respect in my mind for standing against the status quo.




--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

Edited by sirreal (03/26/03 05:28 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410714 -

he was a revolutionary and he tried for change, but the movement failed. that doesn't mean what he did was wrong. he tried to push the human mind to the limit, and challenge the concrete beliefs that people blindly adhere too. well, the wall of ignorance is thicker than you think. his ideas don't die with him, there is hope, it just takes another like him to lead. visionaries are often labeled fools.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1410742 -

his 8 circuits model was genius.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: ]
    #1410761 -

Timothy Leary was a fraud, I'm sad to see so many people decieved by his lies.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1410773 -

Quote:
Timothy Leary was a fraud, I'm sad to see so many people decieved by his lies.




In some ways, maybe. I don't think he was a saint. But there is no evidence he was completely insincere. By calling him a fraud you are suggesting that he was insincere about what he claimed to believe in. What makes you say this?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

Edited by sirreal (03/26/03 06:29 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1410795 -

i'm not too familiar with timothy leary, but i know his main points and what he stood for. i'm curious to know why he's a fraud though...?

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: sirreal]
    #1410803 -

I firmly believe he worked for the FBI feeding misinformation to the youth drug culture to keep them further from political acitivism.

Hence the clash with the Pranksters
... the tune in turn on drop out
... destruction of true research
...



I like what Hunter S. Thompson says about the quack, check out Kingdom of Fear.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1410810 -

If he worked for anyone it would have been the CIA..
My guess would be that he saw right through the political game and decided to focus his energies on other studies of the mind he deemed more important than political activism (enforcing what YOU believe is right on everyone else)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1410820 -

politics is what runs this country like it or not, he could of had his little sheep make a difference, instead he got them to sit around and talk about it, then do more drugs and talk about it some more. Meanwhile doing nothing but taking more drugs and arranging some lamps and lights in certain ways doing jack shit but more drugs.. pretty good plan I'm glad to see the millions of enlightened people walking around from his great work.

No leaders
no guru's
no high priest

Pyscedelic research was lost forever beecause of this asshole.

Edited by Adom (03/26/03 06:54 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1410869 -

gosh, very thoughtfull about him are you not. Why are you even here then? on the shroomery. We are are drugheads remember.


--------------------
Sporeworks
Ralphster44's Spores
MicronFilter Disc
Hawkseye

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: summitstealth]
    #1410905 -

Huh?
What?
Why are you here on the shroomery? Why not go some place where everyone thinks alike and has the same opinions?

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1410995 -

I don't think he was a great leader, but he devoted his life to a cause. God knows what ulterior motives he had though. He was very influential in his lifetime. He altered the lives of thousands+? of people. Whether his actions were beneficial or malevolent, they seem great.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411003 -

Maybe to you its "doing jack shit", but to others, the LSD experience was very important and valid. I ask the same question as summit, if the drug experience is irrelevant and meaningless to you, then why are you here on this board?


--------------------

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411004 -

Ok i'm here. I'm here. Nothing but baseless accusations about Leary though. dee-n-ae pretty much summed up the drop out thing, and the FBI/CIA thing was ridiculous.



--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


Edited by Learyfan (03/26/03 07:54 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: chunder]
    #1411013 -

I think you miss the point these guys had big plans to change the world but all they did was talk about it and do drugs.
I believe that tripping has something great to offer man kind and I think Leary fucked it up, big time. Thats just like my opinion, man.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1411020 -

I think some ppl need to read thier history...timothy leary spent years in jail...he traversed the globe as a fugitive..sure sounds like some spy...but frauds dont go to some much trouble...really think about it after you have read up on him...he was on a personal mission...i think..we make the pedestals and place people on them..

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Learyfan]
    #1411023 -

I don't think saying he caused alot of problems in the research field is in any way baseless.




I think people need a much more active role in politics before they are going to change anything. You have to start small. So toss politics out the window and do nothing but stair at your celtic tapestrys and black lights and watch the country go to hell in a bucket.


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1411028 -

Is there a word of truth in any of your statements? As far as I'm aware Leary only gave psilocybin to post-graduates. Not undergraduates.

Do you know anyone who "fried their brains"? Do you know anyone who left Harvard because they had "fried their brains"? Do you know anyone who'se future was affected by taking part in the psilocybin experiments?

BUT FOR WHAT???

Why do you equate taking LSD with "frying your brains down the psychedelic drain"?



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: MetaMountain]
    #1411043 -

Basically none of us know what really happened and there is a thousand versions of what really happened back then. I've read dozens of books that included many sections on the man and I don't trust him one bit.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Learyfan]
    #1411065 -

Should of called him the High Shepard.

That picture in your post is fucking ridiculous and exactly the kind of shit that annoys me.

I figure you to be a Hunter S. Thompson fan, no?

You should check out the new relix, nice article on him.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411089 -

Pyscedelic research was lost forever beecause of this asshole.

Not forever. It's only 40 years since they were made illegal. Times change, it won't stay like this forever.

You think it would have made any difference if they'd kept quiet about it? They tried that with MDMA and it eventually got made illegal just the same.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Timothy Leary & Moody Blues [Re: Learyfan]
    #1411096 -

Saw the Moody Blues in an outdoor concert in Florida shortly after Leary died. When they started playing "Timothy Leary's Dead" the most spectacular light show ever started, only it was not planned. A thunderstorm a few miles away provided pyrotechnics almost as if choreographed to the music (I was completely sober and straight) complete with different, shimmering colors of "heat" lightning and the occasional thunderbolt. The storm subsided or moved out of range as the song ended.

Everyone commented on the synchronicity; the band, the audience, even the reviewer in the local paper. Some thought it was the spirit of Dr. Leary putting on a performance for us.

As cool as it was, I wonder what it would have been like to have been tripping at the time...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (03/26/03 09:48 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411131 -

Timothy Leary was a great man, that is all I have to say. He is an inspiration to me and many others.

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Re: Timothy Leary & Moody Blues [Re: Swami]
    #1411206 -

It was the ghost of leary being channelled by all those people who were surely tripping at the concert that made it happen.


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411267 -

More n more students and many would come back and MANY students dropped out and fried their brains from the man's goal of understanding it?

Cracka, you have made a few posts betraying your negative view on drugs, and there's another example right here. First off "frying" one's brain is not at all a medical term, so please be more specific. There are no negative physical side effects from dosing on LSD, so if you are talking about brain cells dying, then you're wrong. If you are talking about latent psychosis being brought out by LSD, then I'll point out that levels of psychosis in the general population and LSD users is the same, and if you're talking about LSD depositing in your spine.. then I'm not going to take on the responsibility of educating you.

Now, about dropping out, what's the problem? If I come to the conclusion that, say, school is a sham and jobs are bullshit, is that harming me? I've discovered a new way of life that I'm happier with, so what's wrong with that? I believe that people dropping out disturbs you because you're imposing your own views on other people. Remember, son, there are lots of different ways to approach life, and just because someone may have values drastically different than yours does not mean they are wrong. As you said, many students kept coming back for more LSD experiments of their own free will. Does that sound like forced dosing by the diabolical dr. Leary?

I think you miss the point these guys had big plans to change the world but all they did was talk about it and do drugs.

I don't understand.. what would you rather they did? And can anyone be blamed for having big plans and then never following through with them? My best friend and his girlfriend accidently conceived about a month ago. He's 21 years old, and a very talented guitar player. But, so much for being a rock star, it looks like he's got other stuff to do now, so should I stop being his friend, and call him a fraud? I suspect I need to answer that for you: NO!

It's entertaining to have people declare Tim Leary a worthless fraud. His status is completely subjective, so of course there is no right answer on whether or not he was great. He impacted some lives greatly and others despised him. Adom you say he didn't change the world, but remember that Jesus didn't convert the Romans to a peaceful love cult. I think your expectations are too high, because Tim definetly changed the world. "set and setting" for example. He outlined how to take hallucinogens to a society with no references on how to correctly do so.

This is an interesting subject to debate, but so far the argument against leary is weakly presented. Come on let's get it on!

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1411279 -

Why are you making him out to be so evil? : P He created a moolecule and gave it to some people. We know he had no idea what he was doing at first, his dosages were off the wall. And I'll bet you anything he's had a trip so mind alteringly intense and spiritual, I believe him to really be doing what he views as god's work. Has he ruined lives? I dunno. But to say these people sit around getting high all day because of LSD is crap. Those people have probably had enough acid for a lifetime. Honestly I'd blame marijuana in this instance, but I dont blame the drugs at all. If you cant lead the world because you've had itty-bitty "mind-altering" molecules in your brain, you have larger problems than drug problems. You have an odd illness where your life crumples around stupid things.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #1411285 -

quick correction: harvey the wallbanger he didn't create LSD. Albert Hoffman did.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Dogomush]
    #1411304 -

I should've known that. Sorry. But technically I was still correct!! making a molecule from precursors is kinda creating : P

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411372 -

he was a different walk of life .... if you let a leader of any sort take you to the valley of darkness its your own damn fault and it's not his fault he couldnt stop idiots from abusing his life's work. the man even said tripping wasn't for everybody.


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

fuck a sig



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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Kemist]
    #1411405 -

Too bad Bill Hicks is dead.........he could have been the next Tim Leary.  :frown:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1411548 -

I would have to say NO

Leary was a great inspiration

Theres nothing wrong with LSD

Leary could have worked for the NWO

Things would be alot different today if he (or that period of time) didn't happen the way it did.

Leary WAS a great man


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1411555 -

Quote:
politics is what runs this country like it or not, he could of had his little sheep make a difference, instead he got them to sit around and talk about it, then do more drugs and talk about it some more. Meanwhile doing nothing but taking more drugs and arranging some lamps and lights in certain ways doing jack shit but more drugs.. pretty good plan I'm glad to see the millions of enlightened people walking around from his great work.

No leaders
no guru's
no high priest

Pyscedelic research was lost forever beecause of this asshole.


Are you retarded. Working for the FBI, is that why the hunted him down like a dog as he fled from one country to the next. Is that why he spent 10+ years in prison for two roaches? You know he attempted to run for Governor of California, right? He was arrested in the middle of his campaign so he couldn't finish it off. He did nothing more than take drugs, are you aware of his books. He wrote a guide to the psychadelic experience, so millions all over the world could tune in. Maybe if your posts had a bit of truth I might be able to give you some respect. Are you mad that he and his people didn't play the game? I think progressing the mind is much more important than anything else. Like others have said, the 8 circuit model is brilliant. To come up with that is nothing short of amazing.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1411862 -

As far as I know, he has a Ph D in Psychology, govt funded his experiments, Leary used Harvard students, students flunked n dropped out as a result of???? Leary was kicked out of Harvard for the bullshit. Leary wandered on to do whatever until he died.

Enlighten me onto whatever I missed or don't know.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Dogomush]
    #1411892 -

Stop giving me the "drugs aren't bad" BULLSHIT. I tripped last week on shrooms, went to bed bout 3am and woke up at 1pm the nxt day. Then the whole nxt day was exhausted. Then I went to go work out and was greeted by sharp twinges in heavy weight. I'm now getting back to my normal self. STOP YOUR BULLSHIT, DRUGS ARE BAD FOR YOUR FUCKING BODY GOD DAMNIT AND IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT IT THEN AT LEAST I KNOW WHO'S WRONG!!!

That whole "you don't use drugs, drugs use you" quote is true. Accept it and get over it.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1411957 -

Quote:
Stop giving me the "drugs aren't bad" BULLSHIT. I tripped last week on shrooms, went to bed bout 3am and woke up at 1pm the nxt day. Then the whole nxt day was exhausted. Then I went to go work out and was greeted by sharp twinges in heavy weight. I'm now getting back to my normal self. STOP YOUR BULLSHIT, DRUGS ARE BAD FOR YOUR FUCKING BODY GOD DAMNIT AND IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT IT THEN AT LEAST I KNOW WHO'S WRONG!!!

That whole "you don't use drugs, drugs use you" quote is true. Accept it and get over it.




Maybe you should quit wasting your life and get off the drugs if they are such a bad thing. As for me, I suffer no ill effects from the drugs I do. I say that because I accept responsibility for everything I do while on "drugs".

They don't make my life better in every way, but they sure as hell make it more pleasant.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1412061 -

Quote:
Stop giving me the "drugs aren't bad" BULLSHIT. I tripped last week on shrooms, went to bed bout 3am and woke up at 1pm the nxt day. Then the whole nxt day was exhausted. Then I went to go work out and was greeted by sharp twinges in heavy weight. I'm now getting back to my normal self. STOP YOUR BULLSHIT, DRUGS ARE BAD FOR YOUR FUCKING BODY GOD DAMNIT AND IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT IT THEN AT LEAST I KNOW WHO'S WRONG!!!

That whole "you don't use drugs, drugs use you" quote is true. Accept it and get over it.


In moderation mushrooms have absolutely no negative effects.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adom]
    #1412075 -

Quote:
That picture in your post is fucking ridiculous and exactly the kind of shit that annoys me.




That picture isn't what you think it is. It was merely a show that he and a few others put on. They attempted to recreate the psychadelic expericne with shows and lights. Before you claim someone is a quake, at least get the facts about him.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1412081 -

Staying up late into the night isn't really that good for your body either you know...


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1412082 -

Staying up late into the night isn't really that good for your body either you know...


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1412086 -

Staying up late into the night isn't really that good for your body either you know...


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: bert]
    #1412094 -

I've heard of a double, but never a tripple.  One more and you got a homerun :smile:


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cherk]
    #1412136 -

3 strikes, yer outta here!!!

Leary was sort of a fucked up shady character.. but shit, that guy did a lot of acid, what do you expect!??!!?!?!?!??!?! He's just a man, that did a lot of drugs.


--------------------

"Freedom to all the people... Brave, true and strong... Freedom to all the people... Unless I think you're wrong!!!"

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: GWAR]
    #1412185 -

thank you


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1412294 -

drugs do fuck you up, and its a sick game they start to play with you. a sick game you start to play with yourself. i agree with you man. its time to get ouf of denial! and face that crap about our lives.


--------------------
What?

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1412303 -

Yah, when you do drugs you end up triple posting, kiddies. Don't do drugggsss...

-shemale nerd bert

P.S. what's timothy leary's most famous writing, I need to read up on him so I can either bash him or worship him.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: bert]
    #1412892 -

Quote:
drugs do fuck you up, and its a sick game they start to play with you. a sick game you start to play with yourself. i agree with you man. its time to get ouf of denial! and face that crap about our lives.




Then why are you posting on the shroomery then, if drugs are bad. Also my life is not crap, I am a student at uni, and like others I understan the importance of psychedelics substances, they are used as a tool for the human imagination not as an escape.

As for leary he was an inteligent being who had a disregared for the goverment in his lawless promotion of psychedelic drugs. He was also in contact with other famouse researches of the 20th centuary. Although his idea on turn on tune in drop out was impractical, I wonder how many kids it stoppd going to nam.



--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: EvilGir]
    #1412918 -

Leary was an asshole. He was an informer for the FBI for many years. I'm afraid you Leary fans have been duped. He was not the man he appeared to be. He also got many of his inner circle to inform to the FBI so that they could escape jail.

Have a listen to what Hunter S Thompson has to say about him on the audio commentary to the rereleased Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas DVD (Criterion collection). I promise, your opinion will change.


--------------------
"Real men don't dance, they sit,sweat and curse."
- Bill Hicks

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1412933 -

All I can say is that I own a pristine quality, hardcover copy of 'The Psychedelic Experience,' signed by Tim Leary Twice! - 20 years apart. I imagine it will be worth a pretty penny to collectors one of these days.

Leary did significant work in psychology prior to his first mushroom experience in Cuernavaca, Mexico. The work is still used today. When last I saw the man, he was a grizzled, somewhat paranoid (he refused the baggy of shrooms I offered to him) and cantankerous old dude, who nevertheless chinned me playfully when I presented my book to be autographed, and he saw his first signature. He was accused by a couple of unstable individuals at his lecture for causing them problems with acid. One idiot said that he took 5 hits of windowpane LSD, and old timers exclaimed "too much, too much," which was the truth. One hit of windowpane was enough for the most stubborn ego.

Tim got lost in his own notariety, in his sudden celebrity with all the young hippy chicks and hip millionaires. He took too much acid at once and never really integrated enough of the experiences to restructure his personality away from being an 'intellectual.' Later in life, with tongue-in-cheek, he devised the SMILE thing; Space Migration Intelligence Life Extension - but never stopped drinking or smoking cigarettes. A trickster character at worst, he was one of the most colorful people of my generation.

"Timothy Leary's dead...No, No...He's outside, looking in..." - Timothy Leary by The Moody Blues


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: CaptBeefheart]
    #1412958 -

Quote:
Leary was an asshole. He was an informer for the FBI for many years.



Please provide some sort of proof to back up this accusation other than what you heard Hunter S. Thompson say.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Learyfan]
    #1413003 -

Ok then so what is wrong with the man, show us you proof I want urls god dam it.
So Timoth Leary wasnt perfect but he still was a great influence on the 20th century.

Sound like if you hate tim then you have been brainwashed by the media. Media is Evil.

Oh and before slagging him off try and do some research first.
Timothy Leary is great




--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.

Edited by jezu (03/27/03 01:35 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1413135 -

Have you read any of his books?

Didn't think so.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Dogomush]
    #1413143 -

"I think you miss the point these guys had big plans to change the world but all they did was talk about it and do drugs. "

Uh, yeah. Sounds like every single youth in the western world since about 1950. That's nothing special, it's no big failure.

Someone who takes acid and then drops out of school isn't dropping out because they took acid. They're dropping out because they couldn't handle school, or because they decided they didn't want to.

I seriously doubt that the drop out rate for Harvard was any higher when Timothy Leary was doing his research than it is now. Unless you have any data to prove me wrong...

Didn't think so.

Anyways, Timothy Leary was an interesting guy. He wrote some fascinating books, and got the world interested in psychedelic drugs.

Did his actions indirectly result in the demonization of these drugs? Perhaps they did, but that certainly wasn't his intent. Either way, I don't think he can be entirely blamed for this. LSD was becoming a popular recreational drug with or without Leary's help. Leary only got a hold of some because of its increasing notoriety. His research and viewpoints, combined with the fact that he started out as a respected Harvard professor may have actually prevented it from becoming illegal sooner than it did.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1413151 -

"He took too much acid at once and never really integrated enough of the experiences to restructure his personality away from being an 'intellectual.'"

What's wrong with being an intellectual? Does someone have to abandon rational thought and embrace spiritual nonsense in order to be a valid thinker?

"Later in life, with tongue-in-cheek, he devised the SMILE thing; Space Migration Intelligence Life Extension - but never stopped drinking or smoking cigarettes."

Again, you're looking down on him because he doesn't follow your OWN philosophy. If someone enjoys drinking and smoking cigarettes, there's nothing wrong with that. Drinking, in moderation, causes no health problems whatsoever, in fact, there are benefits to mild alcohol use. Many people smoke cigarettes for years with few problems, sure, they may be the minority, but if someone decides they want to smoke and risk the consequences, I don't see how that makes them any less of a human being.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1413169 -

Most great men are still just men....................

Quote:
Then I went to go work out and was greeted by sharp twinges in heavy weight.



Instead of hurling testosterone driven iron perhaps some tai chi to integrate body and mind after using psychadelics is more appropriate to the experience.At any rate if you are still a wreck after 10 hrs of sleep then I would suggest you have an intrinsic weakness which is brought out by the psychadelic experience.This lies soley within you as your infirmity is highly unusual even among the most athletic of users.Some of the weakest men I know can bench 400+ :wink: WR 


--------------------
To old for this place

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1413222 -

"Then I went to go work out and was greeted by sharp twinges in heavy weight."

Exactly.

Who's to say this is really the effects of the mushrooms?
I generally feel great after getting a good night's sleep and tripping the night before. There have been no documented reports of mushrooms causing muscle damage.

Just because something is a drug, does not mean that it is damaging your body. Drugs can damage your body, yes, but this doesn't mean that they WILL damage your body. Safe, intelligent drug use can be part of a healthy lifestyle.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Phluck]
    #1413895 -

Timothy Leary is one of the major figures of modern psychedelic history whether you like him or not. I don't think he was a saint or a genius, but I do admire how he was able to express his own signal of novelty into a conservative culture that was yearning for some of the radical freedom of which he was a part. Even if the revolutions of consciousness didn't happen exactly as he imagined they would, here we are, from all over the planet, having a discussion on a board devoted to psychedelic mushrooms-a future that Leary would have been proud to embrace.

While I have read many criticisms above, it doesn't seem to me that the critics here have actually read any of his books. I'm sure that if they did, they would have many more complaints about him, because he was quite a wacky character in many ways, but they might also find some of his gems such as his model of consciousness evolution, which is surprisingly similar to the modern scholarly work of Ken Wilber, although much less sophisticated. They may also find admiration for the ideas that life and politics and sex and consciousness can all be approached as if these are fun things, that we can create a world we want to live in, that running on autopilot and being a nonquestioning hive member is not the only possibility.

Was Leary great?

I think I would have gotten along well with him.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: EvilGir]
    #1414084 -

.



--------------------
What?

Edited by Zero7a1 (03/27/03 02:44 PM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Phluck]
    #1414173 -

I've been 'accused' of being an intellectual since the mid 1970's, which was somewhat dissapointing to me even then because someone who IS an intellectual is quite different from an intellectual person. To BE an intellectual means that one has a rather one-sided identification with the faculty of intellection. It is not a whole or fully rounded personality. Such individuals 'live in their heads,' and are frequently out of touch with their bodies - which in turn means that they are out of touch with the full range of emotions, and/or they are out of touch with bodily health (the word health derives from a word for wholeness). I am not an intellectual in these negative ways, but I do possess a fairly high functioning intellect. Those who identify with intellect primarily (and Tim might be included here, although he was also very identified with his sexuality), have a tendency towards arrogance, pride, airs of superiority.

Becoming whole has nothing to do with the abandonment of rational thought, it has to do with the further addition of trans-rational faculties which include types of spiritual (transpersonal) awareness. I have been able to Ace a class in Boolian algebra (symbolic logic), and still maintain non-rational (not irrational) states of consciousness: religious belief, prayer, psychedelic experiences on the conscious continuum - dreams, reveries, fantasies on the unconscious continuum.

I am not "looking down," I am 'looking at.' Health is, as I said above, a correlate of wholeness. I do not need to be cautioned about alcohol use, which in Dr. Leary's life could be problematic, since he was a former classmate of one of my professor's husband, and was known to "ruin parties" according to her. No one can say anything positive about tobacco. It seems to me that you are simply judging my perception, not merely defending Dr. Leary's vices. If you cannot tell from my post that I had respect for the man, let me say plainly that I saw him as rather brave in much of what he did. I agree with Dr. Albert Hofmann that Tim Leary did much to harm the psychedelic movement with his lax attitude for kids, which was bound to piss off conservative America, but I respected the man. I may not have liked his disparaging remarks about Dr. Alpert 'wrapping himself up like a hairy cocoon,' with regard to the transformation via Yoga into Ram Dass, but I liked Tim Leary, shortcomings and all.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1414240 -

Im gonna come back and read the rest of the responses in this thread later.
But from the first few I just want to say anyone that dares to look within and question the world hs my respect.
although the manifestations of any realization are seemingly the point.
Realization is key

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: shaggy101]
    #1414462 -

But from the first few I just want to say anyone that dares to look within and question the world hs my respect.

I like this ^  :wink:

Tim was a great man just because he had the balls to confront society about how we live in a world with ways forced upon us. He saw that he was an individual living in a place full of sheep. I'm glad he did what he didn't have to do.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


Edited by Murex (03/27/03 12:39 PM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1414543 -

Timothy Leary is a rat.


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Zahid]
    #1414604 -

You are opposed to everything I believe in. You scare me.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Zahid]
    #1414645 -

There's a lot of bad communication going on.

DRUGS ARE BAD FOR YOUR FUCKING BODY GOD DAMNIT AND IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT IT THEN AT LEAST I KNOW WHO'S WRONG!!!

I don't understand at all. What the fuck could you possibly mean by "drugs"? Drugs are bad.. what the fuck is a drug? Your muscles were sore? How about the control group? Were their muscles sore? I've had this argument with you before haven't I? Please remember that your experience does count as a scientific study, and completely lacks credibility as proof of anything. My experience has been very different with mushrooms, and my experience is equally valid as yours. The reason I choose my experience as the truth over yours is that I'm not ignorant enough to classify all "drugs" under any single category ie: good or bad. Your doing this makes me think you have an emotional, irrational agenda to convince yourself that you're following the right path, so your judgements are likely clouded.

I wish your would read responses to your posts, cause you're causing me to repeat myself, and you're also repeating points I've shot down.

Zero71a:

My father was an alcholic, and he died when i was 9.

sounds like you're biased by negative experiences.. I have a completely different point of view on drugs and life. For example:

drugs make you think things are nice yes... almost like a joke. but life isnt a joke and its very real, if you take it for granted you will be swept away fast. the longer you stay in the river of forgefullness, the harder it will be to get back out.

I think life is a joke. It's the only explanation as far as I can see. Your statements have no relevance for me, because they make no sense. I come from a totally different background, with a totally different, no less valid point of view. In my experience, and as applied to my own life by me, you're totally wrong. Thanks for your concern, though.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Dogomush]
    #1414776 -

i hope this clears things up





--------------------
What?

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Zahid]
    #1414802 -

He wasn't a rat.

He gave the government information on the men who helped break him out of prison. This information led to no arrests. What does that tell you about the quality of this information.

If you don't think Leary could have gotten away with this, you're mistaken. When Leary first got to prison he was made to take a psychology test of some sort. Leary invented this test. So he knew exactly what to say in order to get into the place with minimal security.



--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Learyfan]
    #1415084 -

thats a neat picture

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1415359 -

"Those who identify with intellect primarily (and Tim might be included here, although he was also very identified with his sexuality), have a tendency towards arrogance, pride, airs of superiority. "

I've seen the same traits manifest itself in spiritual leaders of all forms, although perhaps you'd argue that this is really just the opposite extreme. Even the Ram Das' proclamations that he had risen to a level of conciousness superior to that of those that need psychedelics seems pretty arrogant to me.

"I am not an intellectual in these negative ways, but I do possess a fairly high functioning intellect."

Would these other intellectuals you speak of claim that they were intellectuals in these "negative ways? I don't mean this as a direct attack on you, but there are undoubtably people on these boards who have thought that some of your posts may have been arrogant, condescending, or unecessarily cryptic.

Leary lived 76 years. That's fairly old, as old as, or older, than many people who do their best to adhere to the healthiest lifestyles.

Did Leary drink more than necessary on occasion? Probably, but it doesn't seem to have had much effect on his health. Was it smoking that killed him? Likely not. Was he an asshole at times? Probably, but what well respected person wasn't. It's rare to find a famous thinker who wasn't a jerk-off now and then.

As you said, Leary wasn't perfect, but he wasn't less of a human being than many other philosophers.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: ]
    #1415882 -

Thanks

[image]http://www.summeroflove.org/images/altman/tet.a.tete.sm.jpeg[/image]


--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Learyfan]
    #1416602 -

dr leary toured the lecture circuit as a "stand-up philosopher" :wink: ...
i met him a few times in cleveland and once at starwood festival (doings sponsored by the chameleon club & the association for consciousness exploration)(it was at starwoodfest that tim first realized that  he was a pagan :smile: ...)
he struck me as quite a charismatic character, plenty of smarts, & not afraid to use that ol' irish blarney to his advantage...
as to what he revealed to government interrogators following his capture in switzerland (after a couple years on the lam post-prison break), well the info he fed to the feds about the brotherhood of eternal love and the weather underground did not tell them anything they didn't already know...
when he arrived at harvard, there was already an ongoing psychedelic research project going on (with people like huxley, osmond, and other big names in the early psychedelic culture on board), & they were worried that this crew-cut clinical psychologist might be a "little too square" to get with it... heh...
(in osmond's _understanding understanding_ , he staes that a person with leary's personality type is NOT one who should be dabbling with psychedelics, since he was already of the novelty-embracing character, not to mention being more than a bit of the iconoclast, to boot...)
as to tim's "expulsion" from harvard (& academia in general), well, much of that may have been due to andy weil's almost muckracking article for the campus newspaper... tho' the marsh chapel good friday divinity school experiment may have been the straw that broke the camel's back as far as the harvard board of regents was concerned...
~
well, i could say more, but i've said it before...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: gnrm23]
    #1416845 -

Anyone who has/had a problem with Ken Kesey can't be great... IMHO.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Sclorch]
    #1417913 -

> Anyone who has/had a problem with Ken Kesey can't be
> great... IMHO
--
For what's it worth, Leary claimed in *Flashbacks* that Wolfe made more out of that incident than was really there, and Ken Kesey told me the same during one of our conversations.
--
Cheers,
Cliff


--------------------
SUDDEN DECOMPRESSION MAY OCCUR

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Walkaway]
    #1417914 -

> No one can say anything positive about tobacco
--
I can, and will. Funny how you "entheogen" lot are quick to forget which drug is the most widely used shamanic "ally" in the world...
--
Cheers,
Cliff


--------------------
SUDDEN DECOMPRESSION MAY OCCUR

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1417992 -

Quote:
Timothy Leary did what? Dwelve into understanding LSD? He was a Harvard professor until after using many students or paying them to be a guinea pig in his experiements. More n more students and many would come back and MANY students dropped out and fried their brains from the man's goal of understanding it? Fucking Harvard University! It isn't what it is today, but back then it wasn't like o yea you graduated from harvard, more like OH SHIT YOU'RE A HARVARD GRADUATE GOD DAMN YOU'RE SPECIAL. You know what I'm trying to say. He did bring about a bigger understanding of it and some philosophy, BUT FOR WHAT??? To me it seems to have costed the education and future of many of this planet's great minds and flushed them down a psychidelic drain.

That's what I think, what're your thoughts?





You too should donate your brain to science. I guess you didnt know but those who expirimented with LSD had their IQ increased by at least 10%. Maybe you should try it, that'll cure femenine stupidity out of you bitch.

On the topic, Leary was one of the most important scientist who lived on this planet. And if you had at least 2 brain cells frictioning together effectivly you would find the tallest building and rid the world of your stupidity by jumping from it.

Edited by Weedless (03/31/03 06:29 AM)

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: ]
    #1417993 -

explain all the students that dropped out of Harvard then.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1418179 -

'explain all the students that dropped out of Harvard then. '

I think because they realized that they had a life of their own to live after LSD, and that pompus school pricks (instructors and students) of that University especially were arrogant bastards who had little care for others. That kind of envronment would suck to have to have to wade through. AND they probably realized that they had to live in the moment, thus they stopped wasting their time in this reality by doing trivial things.

(imo)


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1418246 -

Quote:
explain all the students that dropped out of Harvard then.


They came to realize that the system was bullshit and they refused to participate in it anymore.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: ]
    #1418248 -

Too many flames. Thread temporarily locked for cool down period.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1420156 -

explain all the students that dropped out of Harvard then.

Cracka, almost all my friends who have gone to university have dropped out either temporarily or permanently after a year or two. This does not mean that they are stupid or have no zest for life. They just weren't happy with going to school, so they wanted to improve their lives.

The people at Harvard experimenting with LSD likely realized that they would be happier not going to school. Dropping out does not mean that your brain has been fried. It means that you have changed since you started going to school, and you've come to the conclusion that you would be happier doing something else.

You've been ignoring the many people who have been repeating this point throughout the course of this thread. Your values of not dropping out are not universal. Let's pretend LSD gave people the ability to have really great sex. A catholic priest hears about this and says "LSD is evil because people using it have great sex!" So... what's wrong with great sex? Nothing, except to the catholic priest maybe. The priest is applying his values to other people assuming that they're universal when really they're only present in his narrow existence.


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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Dogomush]
    #1420750 -

It has been a while, so i dont know exact #'s, but the drop out r ate in college is over 50% i think, and something like 20% of them get more than a B.S.

I dunno.

You are all crazy. If you think tim leary fucvked everything up for us, I nominate you to fix it. If not, thats cool. You can all sit around and argue about shit you will never know.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: tak_old]
    #1420754 -

Another thing.

Tim Leary did not force you to do drugs. You made the decision on your own, and now that you know they are bad, you can quit. Do what you want.

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: tak_old]
    #1420774 -

Hm... A man whose message was to create your own message.

If that's not an excuse to at least respect him (regardless of disagreeing with his opinions), I don't know what is.


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Timothy Leary wasn't a great man. [Re: Adamist]
    #1421366 -

exactly, your own message is what counts, not what you've been spoonfed your entire existence.

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